Recruit Size

Linedrivez,

I only have this to say since this has been hashed out here on this site many times with many different opinions. I have a son that is close to your size as well and he is a freshmen in college at a JC.
I now after years of thinking about this have come to this conclusion.You cant do anything about your size except, lift weights, eat well with suplements (such as shakes). and work you butt off to be as good as you can be.
Dont let your size be an excuse, doesnt matter if you dont get 100 schools to see who you are as a player. You play for yourself, for GOD, for your family and to be the best team player and contribute to the team in anyway you can. This and becoming the best player you can be with TONS of hard work and eventually if your good enough someone will notice and you will find a place to play.
If for some reason that does not happen as devastating to you young men as it is life will go on, do well in school and get your degree.

quote:

Originally posted by fanofgame:
If for some reason that does not happen as devastating to you young men as it is life will go on, do well in school and get your degree.

Great post and great advice regardless of size!

My son is a high school sophomore, 15 years old, and 6'1+, 195 lbs... He's a catcher and has yet to play Varsity ball... I find that his size, on paper and in meeting with coaches, is what gets him immediate attention... It's odd to me at times, as none of these coaches have ever seen him play and again, with no Varsity experience, they only have his JV stats to go by, for now... That all being said, our high school program has not been known for being very strong, so whatever advantage my son has, in at least garnering some attention, we'll take it! Of course, though his size may get his 'foot in the door', in some respects, he'll obviously have to prove he's a skilled player, when the time comes...

LineDrivez, Welcome to HSBBW.

From my point of view, if you can play, you will find a college willing to invest in you and give you a shot. They understand that some guys mature latter than others, but if you start to work on putting some right mass on, you will be fine as you have some time, but then again, you do need to have the skills they are looking for.

Good Luck, enjoy the ride!

Just from personal experience, it seems that the "undersized" need to show it over a longer period of time, and possibly in more areas...the "immediate impact" factor is not as evident.

Sorry but if you look at college rosters you will see several guys smaller than you.
The guy with the best 3 years P stats is 5'9". My son's roommate is 5'10" and there are short guys on almost every roster.

When a smaller player gets on the field and performs no one is going to care about his size. However, the smaller player better outperform the bigger player. The smaller player will lose out if everything else (including attitude) is equal. The bigger player will be perceived to have a greater potential upside.

You can't fret over what you can't control.Since you can't control size, improve strength and quickness. I've also seen 5'11", 160 pound high school players turn into 5'11", 195/200 pound, rock solid college players.

.

quote:

Originally posted by fanofgame:
Dont let your size be an excuse, doesnt matter if you dont get 100 schools to see who you are as a player. You play for yourself, for GOD, for your family and to be the best team player and contribute to the team in anyway you can. This and becoming the best player you can be with TONS of hard work and eventually if your good enough someone will notice and you will find a place to play.
If for some reason that does not happen as devastating to you young men as it is life will go on, do well in school and get your degree.

Hit it right on the head...for every player.

Great post!

44
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Yea, I could see how the "Immediate Impact" factor isn't exactly evident, and also, the fact that I'm 16 still until November 26th, will allowing for more projectibility, but also does not help with the immediate impact.
Great posts overall though.
I think that it is not a limiting factor in many cases, as I've had mulitple coaches tell me, that they're sure I'm a D1 Player, yet it seems that I get overlooked often or the fact that the schools I happen to be showcased in front of just aren't in need of an outfielder. Yet I've already been offered a D2 Scholarship, so it seems that you just want to take whats on the table and be happy. It's slightly disheartening, but Division I, II , Or III doesn't make that big of a difference in my eyes anymore. I personally think that it is more of a luck thing than anything in some cases now. But do you think an individual should take what they have right now? or wait until the chance to get what they want?

One of 4thGen's HS and club teammates is almost exactly your size. He is an outfielder as well. He's had a couple of DIs tell him they need one of two things out of their outfielders. They have to either be able to hit the ball out of the yard, or steal a base when everyone in the park knows they are going to try. Speed is a great equalizer that does not depend on size.

My son is 5'9" 170 as a sophomore but plays the game bigger. Baseball is not a game of size. He gets many comments and size is not a detriment. He played for USA and has already committed to a major D1. The college's focus was on how he plays the game.

BTW, Check out the catcher for the Phillies. All of 5'7" but pretty stocky. How about a coupel of the Red Sox.

I don't think the height is the issue vs the weight, but it all does not matter when it comes to talent, if you can field, hit, and run like the wind, or throw strikes for a pitcher, who cares what size you are except the opponent.

quote:

Originally posted by LineDrivez:
I want to hear from everybody, how important is size in the recruiting process?

I'll go for example, myself
I am 5'11 - 160, OF, the fact that i'm not 185 pounds turn guys' heads away from me? Just solely that, nothing else involved.

As 3generation posted, size is not always a huge factor for college outfielders. Are you fast, can you steal and find your way on base often and have an acccurate throw?

If you can't answer yes to some of the above that may be where the answer lies.


Fanofgame,
Great post!

I believe that the MVP in the Jupiter tournament was a 5'8" outfielder.

'round here we say ---- "It ain't the size of the dog in the fight - - it's the size of the fight in the dog!"
Fungo

I run about a 6.89 - 6.93 consistent, and read pitchers well, disciplined at the plate, though I may take a few too many pitches sometimes, and I throw the ball pretty well, as a coach told me that was what caught his eye. basically I'm a 4 tool player, I don't hit 4 power very often, can hit hard line drives all over the field lol, IE the name line drives, yet it seems that there is something lacking, as if power is a necessity. I never thought size was a big part of being an outfielder either,and I'm not talking about Height, so I don't care about Height.
Weight is all I'm saying. I have a good attitude, and I hustle everywhere.
All that I really hear, is that I need to improve strength some more, which is done through weightlifting, but that can't be the only thing, are there other factors beyond the 5 tools and attitudual intangibles?

.
44 Observations...

- Have have the pleasure this fall to watch a 5'5" outfielder at a Top CA JC program...with his hustle and attitude ALL eyes naturally gravitate to him...no way that this young man gets lost on any field he plays on....it's the tall, slow guys that do.

- IMO, most coaches I know simply LOVE a player who gives them productive at bats every trip to the plate...bunts, hits behind runners, sac flies, runs the bases, displined and gets into pitch counts...doesn't take power to do any of those things...

- Stronger? Get in the very long line. If you listen to college coaches virtually every high school player needs to get bigger and stronger this goes for DI, DII, DII, NAIA, and JC..
...this means nearly every size, shape, weight, height...thin and/or under 6'8" has no monopoly

- DI? Bloom where you are planted, and the HSBBW pundits will tell you that fit means go where you will likely play.

- Other factors? There are a bazillion things that you cannot control...needs of program, "look", coach bias, other stuff you'll never know...don't be a victim to things you cannot control...look for a place where they DO want you, where they DO see something special in you...from a baseball viewpoint that is where you really want to be.

44
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LineDrive,
AS the parent of a player who was 5'11" and 145lbs coming out of high school, I think your last post is the correct focus. It isn't your size, it is your strength.
Also, it isn't necessarily all schools which may concerned about your strength, but it may be the ones you want.
It is very important to know that recruit strength (my guess is you are talking about DI's) and being able to play in college are like talking apples and oranges.
With the quality of player you describe, there are plenty of programs which will be happy to have you as a recruit and player. Might not be DI, but there are plenty.
Don't confuse what you are hearing about strength with your ability as a player. Both are factors in recruiting. There are coaches who will tell you about getting stronger who will absolutely recruit you, but they might not be DI.
For the type of player you have described, rest assured there are places for you to play.
For your assurances, our son heard the exact same comments coming out of high school.
He did well in college and in Milb after being drafted.
Once he matured and got stronger, there was no gap in his ability to play, as contrasted to his strength when he wanted to be recruited.

infielddad, that's exactly what I needed to hear, and yea. It may not be exactly where I may want to be, but it is the oppurtunity to play, and I've been told that with work starting the first year is a strong option so, what more to complain about huh?

There are many players who post, or have parents who post here, who do not fit the 6'4" 220 profile, but there are coaches out there who look beyond the current player to what the future holds. This can happen in all Divisions. I know of two FY pitchers who would both be considered undersize. One is listed at 5'8". The other is taller, but weighs in at an 'emaciated' 165 pounds and has just started lifting weights. Both have skimmed 90mph this fall, with much growth and development still to come. Clearly, infielddad's son is a GREAT example of pure potential despite size going in. There are many more stories like this spread throughout the HSBBW webstership. Forget the size and keep the eyes on the prize!

LineDriveZ, by the fact you have been offered scholarship at D2 I would assume your grades are good. For college ball you can be 6-4 and throw 90 but if you cannot qualify on academics, no D1 is going to risk taking you. Besides working on strength keep up your academic muscles.

My son is 6.0, 210lbs, was told he was D1, guess what, he's not. You're only D1 if a D1 accepts you with or without a scholarship. The important thing is to match up with the correct school for you. You don't want to make a mistake and have to transfer.

Good luck.

Bum, Jr. may very well be the smallest rostered pitcher in the Pac-10. But size won't stop him. He used to tell me he was tired of being the smallest kid on his baseball team. But now that he's "in" and he is accepted for who he is, for his talent, the playing field has been leveled. Now it is all about getting guys out.

Focus only on what you can control.

Bum: Great example for LineDrivez to relate to.

Our son, while just a Junior in high school is somewhere around 5'10" and 183 pounds. When school started after the summer, he weighed 175 pounds. He has "Zero hour" in school now which is basically a strength and conditioning class before school, and he's added at least 8 pounds. They alternate lifting and running and various sprints and also focus on proper stretching techniques.

Son is a typical teenage boy....eats everything in sight (and some that's hidden in his room), has a good metabolism (apparently), and works out before school and three days/week after school. Though he is of average height, he is notably one of the strongest players on his team (several of his teammmates have told me this). There are several players on his team that are 6' to 6'4" and our son stands out because of his ability to hit the ball hard because of his strength and his work ethic on/off the field.

My main point is to work on strengthening what you do have. Be persistent, work hard, don't forget the legs, and your strength by Spring will surprise you!

The situation LineDrivez describes is very real. As I posted before, it will not be a factor for all DI coaches but it sure is for some. If those happen to be your dream schools, needing more strength before they will recruit you is just a fact of life.
I would also point out that it is different for a position player than it is for a pitcher.
The reason is the rigors of the college season.
While ours weighed about 145 coming out of high school, he was nearly 160 heading into the Spring of his freshman year, after completing the strength and conditioning of college baseball.
Between January and the end of that season in May, with playing 47 games, the travel, the school demands, practice, etc, he lost almost all 15 pounds and was physically and mentally exhausted.
That is the issue I believe coaches are addressing when they talk about needing strength. It is all about your ability to withstand the rigors of a college season and still perform at a high level in May and June. Ultimately, that was a true learning experience for him.
By the time he was a junior/senior in college, he played at 175 to 180.
His performance would suggest that with the combination of his physical maturity, building strength, and understanding the importance of diet, he proved he could play with anyone at any level of college baseball. Most coaches who looked at him out of high school and then saw him 3 years later recognized and joked about wanting a "do over."
I think it is great that everyone is encouraging LineDriveZ. But there is a reality to the issue of strength as a high school recruit. His posts suggest to me he is very astute in recognizing this issue in his recruiting and understanding it isn't a reflection of his ability as a player to succeed in college baseball.

quote:

His posts suggest to me he is very astute in recognizing this issue in his recruiting and understanding it isn't a reflection of his ability as a player to succeed in college baseball.

Totally agree Infield! Well said!

A lot depends on the Coach and his likes and dislikes. Son is 5'8" and 150 lbs. He is going to bat in the 2 hole and play CF for a D-1/Southland Conf school. Did he have to prove himself a little more than the kids with more size? Sure he did. But he took his shot and played his game and won a spot. They told us at his Official Visit that they wanted him to be their 2 hole hitter in the future. So they had a specific plan for him and that is where he ended up.

I would tell you this...During the recruiting process, do the little things to stand out from the others. Run hard eveywhere, play hard all the time, and have fun playing the game. Do all of that and you will be fine!

Infielddad,

I agree with you. I have said exactly what you just said before. People disagreed with me. But I had scouts tell me that they look at the weight as an issue as to the rigors of the season. I think, more now while watching my son as he has been gaining strengh , in the last two years that you can be a weak 170 and you can be a strong 170. I think you are right on about being the strongest as you can be for your size.
And it is a lot of rigor, My son is home and commuting and working out three days a week, practicing 5 days a week. He had today off from baseball becasue they had a late travel game yesterday and he got home at 1130 this morning, made himself lunch and went to bed and slept five hours. Woke up just had homemade mac and cheese (calories) and rest of dinner and is back in his room. he has weights and conditioning at 630. So you have to keep your strength up during the season and eat well and get lots of rest. try not to burn the candle at both ends. But be as strong as you can be for your size and then continue to work on skills.

If a player has 4 tools, coaches really don't care what you weigh. They know that once they get you in the weight room with proper conditioning your weight will not be an issue and most likely you will grow a few more inches.

If they (D1 coaches) are telling you that you need to develop strength, most likely because at your position they want more power. Take that as a signal to find a place to play where you will be appreciated, even if it isn't what you want.

If it doesn't feel right, don't sign.

Another example of the exception to the rule:

When my son was a junior he was receiving offers as a catcher and was just 165lbs on a good day. He is on scholorship at a Pac 10 school. He is only 172lbs a few weeks ago. No where near the normal size that most colleges look for at that position. Growing up he fought the "you are too small to be a catcher". He believed in himself and found a program that size wasn't as important as the other tools he brought to the table.

Looking at the make up of their currect roster will give you an idea if they will recruit outside the norm!

Believe in yourself, work on strength and build on the tools that you have!

TPM ----

TPM,
Maybe I misread this but I did not get the impression LineDriveZ is a 4 tool player coming out of high school.
My impression is that he is similar to many, many high school seniors, including our son. He has good speed in the 6.9 range, is a line drive hitter, does not have impressive power numbers, is a good defensive player and plays the game very hard.
What I take from his post is that he isn't fully matured and can be a much better player when he gets into a well coached college program.
I would sure agree with you that a 4 tool player can play anywhere and size isn't an issue.
LineDriveZ needs assurances that while he is not currently a 4 tool player, he can play in college, his strength right now can be an issue with some DI coaches, and if he gets with the right coach and program he likely will remove strength as an issue and will be judged on his ability to play the game, which is what he wants.

I need to update something. I had referenced a 6'1" 165 pound pitcher a couple days ago. Just got word yesterday that measurements at the gym now have him at 6'2" 180. The late-bloomer is bloomin'!

Awesome for T, Krak! Hope he has a great year.. I'm sure he will.

The 2008 5 toolplayer:

1. Can run a 6.6 dash
2. Can hit a wooden bat over 400 feet
3. Has a 70 plus arm
4. Has an approach to work the ball...hit for average
5. Can track any gap shot or make any play look routine.

OK

Nobody in the 2008 WS fits that profile

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
TPM ----

Fungo,

Absolutely agree w/ you; TPM you are on the spot. For baseball (at least for the position players), size might matter a little bit (no pun intended), but MUCH less than the ability to adapt and adjust. For pitchers, it MIGHT matter a bit more if only because the bio-mechanics would favor a bigger guy that can move his release point closer to the plate and get a bit more out of the "same" motion. Anyone see Jimmy Rollins this week??? 5"8", tops.....

quote:

Originally posted by LineDrivez:
basically I'm a 4 tool player

IFD,
You gave good advice and your post is very understanding of his dilemma, I know that you understand what the player is going through.

Linedrivez needs to understand that he is only 16, and most likely needs to work more on the tools and conditioning. I haven't seen too many 4 tool players at 23-24 let alone at 16. What seems to be happening is that he states that he has 4 tools, yet the only thing stopping him from getting offers is his weight. He is discouraged and shouldn't be, at this time, but needs to be realistic in the fact that it may take years to be where he wants to be (as you have explained).

Lindedrivz,
While the recruiting process happens early for many, for most it does not. If players have outstanding ability, lack of height and weight is overlooked, especially if the player has projection and 4-5 tools. You have all spring to work towards your goal (to play D1 ball).
Stop worrying about what you cannot control and worry about what you can, that is all you can do at this time. Work on those tools, work hard in school, get into a good conditioning program, eat well and let mother nature take care of the rest. Everything will work out.


Funny thing, I remember we all telling Krak the same thing many years ago.

quote:

Everything will work out.

Yep, it always does! You have plenty of time and the programs that are a good fit for you will come to light. Be patient and it will all come together!

Two of our outfielders this fall were under 6ft in height---one was 5-11 and the other 5-7---BUT they ran under 6.8 60's, could catch and throw and hit.

Both have situations that they are mulling over right now , from D-1 to D-111---if you can play you will be noticed