Recruited Walkon

The reality of a recruited walkon is that once he comes to practice he has to prove to the coach that he can play whereas a player on scholarship has to prove they cannot play. The coach is giving your son an OPPORTUNITY to prove that he can play baseball at the D-1 level. I would categorize this as the coach saying “I don’t need you but I will take you”. Your son basically has to prove the coach wrong and that can be a big challenge. If it were me I would rather be in a baseball atmosphere where I was “needed”. Many recruited walkons will transfer or quit since they arent playing. The success/failure of recruited walkons vary. My son had one teammate that stayed on the team for four years and had ONE AB in four years while another beat the odds and became a starter after two years.
Fungo

Fungo is right on with his summation. Scholarship recruits will always have the upper hand due to the the fact that they are investments. My son found this to be the case and had to prove his worth as a pitcher- even then he was rewarded with a redshirt. One could assume that it would be even harder for a position player. In the future you will see more recruited walkons due to the new scholarship cap, and also for schools penalized for APR violations, but things won't be any easier for them.
It could be that the school ran out of money and still has needs, or it could just be like Fungo said and they liked what they saw but don't really need him.
My suggestion is to really do your homework before making a decision, and make sure the school fits your sons wants & needs, even without baseball.

I may have to differ a bit w fungo & spizz

as a "recruited walk-on" the player is on the roster when he hits campus, tho no nli needs be signed, as he gets no athletic aid.

when fall workouts begin, he won't be seen as any different by other players, as scholarships are seldom discussed among players .. except maybe a big ego guy bragging - even then the truth is most often streeetched

all players have to prove they can play, tho fungo is correct that BIG scholarship guys do get more slack ... however, ya might just be competing for playing time with a guy getting book$, or a 10% guy which would even the field tremendouly for ya

good luck

This has nothing to do with the sincerity of the post, which I do not doubt, but do more you seem to hear that many graduates say they are recruited walk-ons? Does this have to do with more of it being thrown around by coaches, or a nonverifiable statement?

With 11.7 scholarships available, recruited walk-ons play an important role on many teams. My sons team has a few that contribute heavily. Two recent walk-ons were 10th round picks in 2005 and 2006. Another was conference "newcomer of the year" this year. College recruiting is not a perfect system. Players don't always receive scholarship money they deserve. Plenty of times they get more than they deserve also, although usually not forever. If the coach plays the "best 9" available and you are happy with the opportunity, I'd consider it.

quote:

by dom: many graduates say they are recruited walk-ons?

good question ... it should be pretty easy to tell

an ordinary walk-on will NOT be working out with the team ...
the first chance the regular walk-on has to be with the team is when open tryouts are posted & held, usually after the team has been practicing for a few weeks.

for most "un-recruited" it's a short stay

Another related question.

From a comprehensive list in our area, Nor. Calif., there are 104 players listed as signing letters of intents at D1 colleges across the nation. The list does not differentiate between scholarship players or recruited walkons. Of those, only 7 are HS outfielders. There are 4 more outfielders from JC's and another 7 combo position players. Mostly pitcher/outfielders.

Certainly there must be a need for more outfielders out there. Where do they come from? Are they mostly converted infielders? I assume that most D1 programs would carry 5-6 outfielders at a minimum.

a recruited walk on signs no nli, tho somtimes he'll be described as having "signed".
some schools offer a "letter of commitment" to the non-nli player for ceremony etc.

quote:

by do: Certainly there must be a need for more outfielders out there. Where do they come from?

my wild guess ... they come from the Mid-West & East

By the way, my son was told that he could work out with the team through the summer as well as the fall.

This school also returns only 3 outfielders, of which only one had any significant playing time at all (maybe 25%). They also have letters of intent from 2 more JC transfers.

Are redshirts normally listed on rosters?

Assuming balanced classes, teams replace an outfielder or two a year. The outfielders I know are usually high school outfielders. Our leftfielder this year was drafted as a catcher out of high school, played first base last year and drafted as a catcher this year. I'd say he is the exception.

what college team works out durring the summer? DI?

our nearby NAIA guys play summer ball together & often fill their roster with incoming or anyone that can fill a need

quote:

as a "recruited walk-on" the player is on the roster when he hits campus, tho no nli needs be signed, as he gets no athletic aid.

Can't agree with this statement. In the fall no one is on the roster. A R walk on had better be better than the guys he is competing with and many of the NLI guys are subject to being cut or Red Shirted.
I have a view that if you are not offer a scholarship why would you go there. There are hundreds of colleges why not find one that you like and they are willing to commit to you. Walking on recruited or not dosen't make sense.

quote:

The list does not differentiate between scholarship players or recruited walkons.

Thats because there are non. NLI are signed only by scholarship players.

In the fall NCAA teams are tightly limited to working out. Most workouts are 4 on 1 s. Dooer you need to understand the NCAA rules a bit more in order to make an informed choice.
In the fall all players are trying out and only 30-40 make the roster and only 25 make the travel roster. Several players are gone by the end of fall.

I put the statement that the list did not differentiate between scholarship players and not because that was what the list provider stated. He works for PG by the way.

I am aware that not all players make the grade, recruited or not. However, since schools are not breaking down our doors to grab my son, maybe he has to take a chance if he wants to continue.

With only 11.7 scholarships available, what percentage of that goes towards incoming HS outfielders. If it is .5, where do they get the rest? Should he hold out for books?

Another question, should or can I contact the coach directly to find out exactly what they are offering or if they are sincere. They did contact him first.

As I read this thread, I am realizing that the many opinions reported here are largely based on each of our experiences at each of our own son's school.

No one size fits all!

At Stanford, if you are a "recruited walkon," you can take it to the bank...you are on the roster!

At other schools where I have freinds' sons, it is essentially a guaranteed tryout and nothing more.

We need to be careful when we advise "factually" about this. I believe Fungo has some of his usual great advice. Recruited walkons will get a chance to prove their worth...but they are starting at a deficit...sometimes a very large deficit. Sometimes it takes a couple/few years before that player will sniff the field. Many quit after the Fall, many more quit after a year or two. Still others love being on the team and hang with it for 4 years. And of course, a few will break through and become an integral part of the team. But the word is a "few." They are the exception.

A recruited walkon is far more likely to be the "bucket guy" during BP. To catch bullpens for pitchers. To stand beyond the OF fence to retrieve home runs hit in BP or scrimmages. To be in the stands during Fall scrimmages to retrieve foul balls. To rake the field after practice. To clean up the dugouts. Etc..., etc...

College baseball is hard work...really hard work. One hopes to be rewarded with playing time. It doesn't always work out that way. Can your son handle that? Can YOU handle that?

For the few that make it through this process...I can only imagine that the feeling of accomplishment is TREMENDOUS! At my age, just being on the team would be good enough. At 18, I might have felt a little differently.

Good luck Dooer...email me if you have more questions.

Tom

quote:

Originally posted by Dooer:
By the way, my son was told that he could work out with the team through the summer as well as the fall.

This school also returns only 3 outfielders, of which only one had any significant playing time at all (maybe 25%). They also have letters of intent from 2 more JC transfers.

Are redshirts normally listed on rosters?

Not sure what the workouts would entail. Lifting and running maybe? Most of the guys will be off campus, and there probably won't be much work on the field. Could be different at this school though. Redshirts are usually listed on the roster. You can tell who they are from the stats page- they can't have any appearances.
Here's a great resource for determining funding, which includes totals for each school's roster. You can find how much money the school pays for each player as well.
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/Search.asp

Bobble,
Some schools will not invite more than they can roster. The tryouts then become only for the travel squad, and some spots for that roster are up for grabs throughout the season.

I think there have to be other considerations than just money, and as I alluded to in my previous post, sometimes the money isn't there while the player is still wanted. Fit is much more than just a scholy.

Dooer - To address a couple of your other questions:

1. Many college OFers were SSs in HS. Don't go exclusively by their HS position.

2. Quite a few on the "lists of college commitments/signings" are in fact recruited walkons themselves. I know this for sure because I've known some of them. The lists are largely self-reported and when a player makes a "commitment" to attend a college (walkon or scholarship), they often report it to the lists or local papers the same as a scholarship commitment. They don't lie, just use the word "commit."

JBB, I usually speak here anecdotaly and try to note that when appropriate. I would probably be speculating what happens elsewhere.

quote:

A recruited walkon is far more likely....To stand beyond the OF fence to retrieve home runs hit in BP or scrimmages.

or chasing foul balls in the stands with the pitchers.

quote:

...or chasing foul balls in the stands with the pitchers.

Dad04 - Yep!

quote:

by bbhdl: In the fall no one is on the roster ... teams are tightly limited to working out. Most workouts are 4 on 1 s. .. you need to understand the NCAA rules a bit more in order to make an informed choice... In the fall all players are trying out and only 30-40 make the roster and only 25 make the travel roster. Several players are gone by the end of fall.

"there you go again" ..


1) there IS a baseball roster when class begins

2) guys on that roster can work 4 on 1's (regular students CAN NOT work 4 on 1's)

3) DI has a 30 day window for team practice (regular students CAN NOT team practice)

4) ONLY roster players can team practice

5) DI MUST hold an open tryout for "regular full time students" (they range from 1 day to several)

6) typical open tryout held 7-10 days into team practice window

7) a student who "makes" the team from open tryout is added to team roster


bobblhead IS correct that "some" coaches who are lazy or not too good at evaluating talent waay overload their fall roster and use it as a tryout tool, fully intending to discard excess players like yesterday's news - those programs have a much different roster in the spring than fall.
imo, those programs should be avoided if possible

the new rules will hamper this type of coach, still it would be prudent to identfy that type of guy before looking seriously at his program.


as jbb said, many, many other programs DO NOT use the fall to trim their roster, only to determine the basic travel roster, which will then flex a bit during the season ... alot of coaches operate this way
imo, that is the type of program to target & committ

hope that helps



added:

quote:

A recruited walkon is far more likely....To stand beyond the OF fence to retrieve home runs hit in BP or scrimmages

that type of program would be one to avoid as the coaching staff is inept

quality coaches run an organized practice/scrimage with something productive for EVERYONE to do.
something else to look for is that many well run programs have a bullpen catcher that is a "student volunteer" member of the staff (not-rostered), not a team member on this weeks sh** list

Can some explain what is meant by

quote:

guys on that roster can work 4 on 1's

Thanks!

nyaa, 'sup Doc?

sure, 4 on 1 (DI small group coach instruction) is NOT open to the general student body

Bee> that'll never get old

Thanks for the answer

Our D1 school has never posted a roster until after spring work out. I follow many schools and their rosters are posted just before the season starts in the spring.
In my opinion it is probably better to be a non recruited walk on. A recruited walk on has been followed usually and not had an offer made. A non recruited walk on who has the talent to be better than an NLI player has a better chance.
My son's school had both and a non recruited walk on made the roster.
Money mat not matter to some but I spent a ton to get to college and we were not prepared to sign a NLI without a very substancial scholarship. We turned down a recruited walk on at UNLV after they failed to make an offer taking a JC transfer instead. Unknown to us the guy who evaluated him had left during the recruiting process. We also turned down an offer to go to Indian Hills because there was no money left. I can't see any out of state player forking out that kind of money when there are tons of colleges that will. My advice is find a school that is willing to show you some love.

I have seen this many times before and the major problems with walkons is that if the coach plays them over a scholarship player the coach feels for some reason that it makes him look dumb or stupid for recruiting the wrong player. The truth is that recruiting is not an exact science and the walkon may have worked harder to improve his game than the scholarship player. Now if you have a coaching change and the new coach wants you but has no money for this season but ask you to walkon for one season and claims he will find money for you the next season that is something that you may want to look at if it's your dream school.

The main reason I say I would rather be a non recruited walk on is that the coach may never have seen you before . They don't get to see everyone. The recruited guy they have seen and he has made a choice to take other players in your position.
There are reasons why you may want to take a chance as a walk on but why when there are choices. Unless this is the only option then take it but I would be looking for other options. To say there is only one college that fits would be fairly rare but possible.

.

quote:

In my opinion it is probably better to be a non recruited walk on. A recruited walk on has been followed usually and not had an offer made. A non recruited walk on who has the talent to be better than an NLI player has a better chance.

With all due respect, don't know if I agree with this statement, BBHD. It definitely has some logic, but logic is rarely present in these deals. We have found, in two seperate occasions (granted, both are Academy situations) that "tryouts" in the Fall for "Walk-ons" lasted two days (in my eyes they lasted less than 2 hours) and the walk-ons would have to to have run a 6.2/60, or hit 6 out during BP to get even a second look. Just not sure how many "open tryouts" are designed for finding "diamonds in the rough", instead of just following policy.

Just an opinion...

cadDAD

.

I think that the key point to this is that every school is different! You need to look at roster size, what school has done traditionally, everything.

Remember, a "walk on" is merely defined by the NCAA as someone who is not getting athletic scholarship money. There may be many good reasons for that, such as the player is getting a 100% ride from another source, or the player is getting what is called "administrative" money, which cannot be mixed with baseball money. Given the new rules, there are going to be lots more of those guys on teams starting next year.

I know some schools that list the 'recruited walkons' along with the guys who have signed NLIs as having 'committed' to their team for the next year when they announce their signing class. Seems to me that if the team announces you as being one of their recruits for next year, you can pretty much be assured that you are more than someone who is just going to shag HRs outside the fence.

.

...what he said.....


cadDAD

.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnLex7:
I know some schools that list the 'recruited walkons' along with the guys who have signed NLIs as having 'committed' to their team for the next year when they announce their signing class.

JohnLex - I could be wrong about this...but I am pretty sure that a school cannot announce a player as committed unless he has scholarship money with a signed NLI...could be only books, but thats the way I understood it. That includes not announcing players on academic or need-based aid.

I know I heard/read that somewhere...but its possible it wasn't correct.

quote:

by bbhddl: I follow many schools and their rosters are posted just before the season starts in the spring.

sorry, I can't help it - you're cracking me up ... and my side hurts
so, because they don't post a roster on their website .. there IS NO ROSTER??


the ol' coach w/a blank sheet of paper wondering who those guys wrestling in the bull pen are?

compliance wondering who's grades to check re eligibility?

co-eds in the whirlpool?

trainers working on a guy from science class's injury?

co-eds in the whirpool?

equipment/uni room emptied by students in need of team sportswear?

insurance wondering if they'll cover the art student's TJ surgery?

did I mention the co-eds, they're in the shower now??


I'm not even gonna try to figure on how it would be better to be a totally unknown/unrecruited reg student showing up for tryouts -
than a followed & recruited player who was called by & has met w/coach in person and been offered a roster spot, but no athletic aid at this time
(tho conceivably academic money could be had)

quote:

Neither would have been one of his top choices. But he would love to continue to play ball

I think I would keep looking.

There were 3 walk ons in my son's freshman year. One non recruited guy made the roster but is no longer there.
Recruited means they looked at him and made offers to other players instead. Non recruited often means they have never seen the guy before.
My son was offered a recruited walk on at UNLV. It was a verbal. Pay all your costs and get no scholarship at least until the spring semester. Good luck trying to get money in the spring. The other option was to play in a NV JC that they would set up so they could keep an eye on him. We decided not to do either as we had other options. The recruitor was a great guy and probably taught me more about what I should be looking at. We talked and emailed each other for a year. Offers of tickets to sports events etc if we were in town. I felt my son had to go where he was wanted and where he wanted to go.

quote:

walk-ons would have to to have run a 6.2/60, or hit 6 out during BP to get even a second look.

The odds are probably 1 million to one or higher that a kid could show up cold and make the team in the fall.

I asked my son last fall who this one kid was playing in the outfield and he said he was discovered via student walk-on try-outs. He ran a 6.3 60 which did manage to turn some heads. After they figured out he could not hit, his tenure with the team - which lasted about two weeks was over.

Oh I see what list you are talking about.
If you call that a roster so be it.

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
JohnLex - I could be wrong about this...but I am pretty sure that a school cannot announce a player as committed unless he has scholarship money with a signed NLI...could be only books, but thats the way I understood it. That includes not announcing players on academic or need-based aid.

I know I heard/read that somewhere...but its possible it wasn't correct.

They phrase it differently in the ones I have seen, one school listed them as players who "have announced their intent to enroll." Basically, they are not calling them a signee, they are not saying they have 'committed' but they are saying "these players are coming here."

I do appologize for my odd humor, but like I said "couldn't help myself"

Dooer...I would take the JC route.

You weren't wanted as a recruit by the D1 and you'll be fighting for playing time no matter what you do.

95.9% of the coaches "protect" their own mistakes.

Who knows, you might have a breakout year as the JC and be recruited by the same coach!

.
Three things..

One...And we've been down this HSBBW road before....The term "Recruited Walk On" means something different to everyone. The definition you NEED to be concerned with is that of the head coach. The more you can get it spelled out the better. The worst case scenerio is have you think it is one thing and the head coach KNOW it's another. With an NLI there is paperwork, and at least it is kind of spelled out...At this point to the best of my knowledge there is no paperwork for RWO's.

Two...Find out what has happened to other players who have taken this route at that particular shcool. Did they ever play? Did they ever start? Did they ever earn Baseball $ ?...or did they all leave after the fall. You need to know the history of RWO's at that particular school.

Three...no recruited Outfielders?...Whole 'lotta position changes in DI...many converted to outfield.

44
.

I may be talking from my rear end with this comment but, I would hope that any kid with aspirations of making a college baseball team as a “walk-on” did his due diligence and prepared a contingency plan. This obviously leads to the question, was your walk-on decision a well thought out calculated risk or, merely a "Leap of Faith?"