Recruiter used car salesman tactic

Picked Off posted:

I realize, though, that pretty much everybody can play college ball somewhere, and I also see that he's on track to develop, get bigger and become a college level quality player.

TE,

With all do respect, I disagree. A lot things go into playing at the next level. You should be telling your son that he has to work harder then everyone around him and still he might not make it. Yes, he has a chance, but nothing is a given. 

As far as the OP, athletic scholarship money is a gift. A limited number of gifts to be handed out. Most coaches want to give as many as gifts they can. Therefore, asking the question up front is reasonable. As many have said, be thankful that they ask. Most in your shoes would be grateful for 25% minimum offer. I would guess that is a large percentage of the first year offers unless that player is top draft prospect.

I would also encourage your son to be the best in the class as well. That will help him just as much.

I'm told that Pastoring is very rewarding, just not financially. I am grateful for my pastor every day. Your sacrifice might bring greater opportunity with finacial aid for your son. 

Good luck to your son!

Hey.  Thanks for the advice!  And you're right, there is a serious matter of effort involved.  "Do everything as though working for the Lord, and not as for men."    

School is indeed important on multiple levels.  He's an okay student.  Carries a 3.2 or so in AP courses.   I think we may drop AP math and science though.  It's a tough call, but he needs more instruction and less, "You should already know this.  A college instructor won't slow down and go back over things."  The flip side is that we live in a blue-collar area that is on the economic down-swing.  Kids in non-AP are not too motivated and I'm not sure that the classes are as challenging as we might want.  I'm not positive on that though.  Calculus is calculus.  One track is slower than the other, and your less motivated types aren't going to do calculus anyway.  So...

Keep praying for your pastor.  He needs it.  And make sure he's paid enough.

Some may think negotiating is a game. It's not. It's a process. Anyone trained in negotiating knows Point A is what you want. Point B is the minimum you're willing to accept. Anything below Point B you thank the person for their consideration and walk away. The hard part can be for weak people. Sometimes they want the product so badly they have trouble walking away when the offer is below Point B. A good negotiated recognizes who won't walk. 

This is why when you purchase a car you should never be visibly in love with it. I once had a Jeep salesman chase me To my car after I told him an Explorer was just as nice and headed for the door. I knew I was going to purchase a Cherokee. But it was going to be at my price. I was willing to walk away that day if necessary.

in any negotiation you have to understand the amount of leverage you have. And stay cool and polite.

I think "negotiating" when your kid's future is involved is a lot different from negotiating to buy a car.  If you own a car and it is still running, then you simply "want" a new car and create some amount of leverage - as you can afford to get back in your car and drive away.  Coming up with "Point B" in terms of an offer is a very difficult task and requires that person to have a completely unbiased view of the skillset (What are they "worth" to the coach) while at that same time appreciating the value of having your kid attend that particular institution.  With a car you know the MSRP, you know the dealer's cost, you can even find what a "good" price in on the internet - and even broker a deal over the internet.  With a coach, you seldom have a good idea of the mental math that is going on in his head as he juggles the various player options.  If you and your kid love one particular college, where is the blue book that says that particular college's experience is worth "12%" less scholarship than your 5th choice - there is no book and the "discount" can fluctuate wildly as time passes.  Some folks might need the right combination simply to afford a particular institution, but once affordability is addressed, the process is not nearly as cut and dried as haggling over a car during the last couple of days of the month (gotta keep the sales folks on their toes).

RJM posted:

Some may think negotiating is a game. It's not. It's a process. Anyone trained in negotiating knows Point A is what you want. Point B is the minimum you're willing to accept. Anything below Point B you thank the person for their consideration and walk away. The hard part can be for weak people. Sometimes they want the product so badly they have trouble walking away when the offer is below Point B. A good negotiated recognizes who won't walk. 

This is why when you purchase a car you should never be visibly in love with it. I once had a Jeep salesman chase me To my car after I told him an Explorer was just as nice and headed for the door. I knew I was going to purchase a Cherokee. But it was going to be at my price. I was willing to walk away that day if necessary.

 

in any negotiation you have to understand the amount of leverage you have. And stay cool and polite.

Funny, I won't buy a car until I've walked out of the dealership at least twice.  Its amazing how fast they can run after you, or call your cell phone with a better price after they already gave you their "rock bottom price".

We had zero idea what we were doing. I judged our interactions with the coaches comparing what friends were experiencing elsewhere and surmised what the "valuations" were, comparatively speaking. I can tell you this, from the first offer he ever got from a mid major (not great) with no other offers on the table...we were in a weak position. We were given an ultimatum when they found out we were visiting another school (which i'm sure we told them we may do) so my son declined their offer on the spot. Boy how things change when more than one school is interested. We were fortunate and received fair offers all the way around and really ended up in the best spot for him. Sometimes i think we had someone looking over us the whole way. I get the analogy of the used car salesman and frankly i think the really good RCs and HCs can sell their program to you long before you get a number, which in sales is everything.

Shoveit4Ks posted:

 with no other offers on the table...we were in a weak position.  Boy how things change when more than one school is interested. "

Shoveit4Ks: A lot of truth with the above- saw it firsthand with 2015.

Shoveit4K,

Your experience is almost an exact duplicate copy of my oldest son's experience right down to the ultimatum that the first offering school (D1 mid-major) pushed on when they found out he was visiting another school.    Uncanny how similiar our son's experiences sound.

It is so much about leverage and understanding the value your son provides to these coaches.  I learned you have to think like a coach   I understand it is difficult to measure leverage at first, but you get a genuine sense of it when more programs get involved.  This one of the main reasons I really like to see most recruits not jump at the first offer and continue their search.   We started early (soph year) and ended late (Fall of Senior Year), but it was worth every minute for him to figure out where he had leverage, and to optimize it.

Options = Leverage

Believe it or not, a lot of people just don't understand this when it comes to recruiting.

PGStaff posted:

Options = Leverage

Believe it or not, a lot of people just don't understand this when it comes to recruiting.

You ain't kiddin'!

I think most coaches are honest in the sense of what they are looking for and what they can give.  

The thing to keep in mind is they are recruiting to cover their own backside and to develop a winning team for their job security.  So, questions to ask them (my opinion) are along the lines of how many players at my position are being recruited....how many returning redshirts are their....as so on.  

At the JC level it is not unusual to have 90 guys in the fall, so, it is super competitive.  At other level you won't have as many guys but you will have tough competition.  The coach may love parts of your game, but, he also loves the game of the other 3 guys he is talking to that play your position....and oh yeah, the redshirt kid that got hurt and we will also see if anyone shakes loose from another school in the fall.