Recruiting Mantras

You know I have never been even close to something like this, so I am going to take the academic discussion side. 

WHY doesn't he like school A without baseball?  What is it about the school/town/people/classes/dorms?  Getting out of college with little to no debt SOUNDS wonderful, but I would take a bit of debt to have a better experience, and college is about the experience, as well as the education.  College is where kids start to REALLY grow up, they become their own person.  You are saying your son likes the coaches, that is really truly wonderful, but he had to fly to get there which means it's a completely foreign place, where he won't know a soul, and he doesn't like the school.  This sounds to me like a disaster for his mental health.

CaCO3Girl posted:

You know I have never been even close to something like this, so I am going to take the academic discussion side. 

WHY doesn't he like school A without baseball?  What is it about the school/town/people/classes/dorms?  Getting out of college with little to no debt SOUNDS wonderful, but I would take a bit of debt to have a better experience, and college is about the experience, as well as the education.  College is where kids start to REALLY grow up, they become their own person.  You are saying your son likes the coaches, that is really truly wonderful, but he had to fly to get there which means it's a completely foreign place, where he won't know a soul, and he doesn't like the school.  This sounds to me like a disaster for his mental health.

He doesn't HATE the school. He just likes some others more. It's a very, very big school. I was quite surprised actually at the size of the enrollment. 

Both schools are far from home. One is much farther than the other. 

roothog66 posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

You know I have never been even close to something like this, so I am going to take the academic discussion side. 

WHY doesn't he like school A without baseball?  What is it about the school/town/people/classes/dorms?  Getting out of college with little to no debt SOUNDS wonderful, but I would take a bit of debt to have a better experience, and college is about the experience, as well as the education.  College is where kids start to REALLY grow up, they become their own person.  You are saying your son likes the coaches, that is really truly wonderful, but he had to fly to get there which means it's a completely foreign place, where he won't know a soul, and he doesn't like the school.  This sounds to me like a disaster for his mental health.

He doesn't HATE the school. He just likes some others more. It's a very, very big school. I was quite surprised actually at the size of the enrollment. 

Both schools are far from home. One is much farther than the other. 

You may want to get into the exact things he dislikes about the school.  While baseball will consume much of his time it won't consume all of his time.  If he finds he truly dislikes something basic, like it's a city school and he needs open spaces...well, that's not going to go well.  If it's something smaller like the local pizza shop is 20 minutes away and other schools it is only 5 minutes away, then yeah, I'm sure he can live with that.

One other piece of advice that might help you in this process, particularly when you are down to two schools. When we got down to the final choices  We did "T Charts" on schools and ranked them numerically based on a criteria list we came up with. We used a 1-10 scale and then went down the list that included cost, location, coaches, academics, size, and anything else that we could come up with that would help him make a good decision. This is typically something that is done in a "decision analysis" process in business, but works perfectly in these cases. It will force him to logically look at his decision and tends to take out the emotional aspects. We always did this right after a visit and then after a few days. Always give it time as emotion from a visit impacts a young person and you want to help them make an informed choice, not an emotional one.

After you to through the rankings you add up the columns and come up with a total numerical ranking. You can also weight certain aspects to help get a better representation of his real interest. This really helped my son (and us) look at his options from a realistic point of view.

Good luck! 

roothog66 posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

You know I have never been even close to something like this, so I am going to take the academic discussion side. 

WHY doesn't he like school A without baseball?  What is it about the school/town/people/classes/dorms?  Getting out of college with little to no debt SOUNDS wonderful, but I would take a bit of debt to have a better experience, and college is about the experience, as well as the education.  College is where kids start to REALLY grow up, they become their own person.  You are saying your son likes the coaches, that is really truly wonderful, but he had to fly to get there which means it's a completely foreign place, where he won't know a soul, and he doesn't like the school.  This sounds to me like a disaster for his mental health.

He doesn't HATE the school. He just likes some others more. It's a very, very big school. I was quite surprised actually at the size of the enrollment. 

Both schools are far from home. One is much farther than the other. 

My older boy attends a very large university. I attended a VERY large university. The scale can be intimidating and at times very inconvenient when it comes to getting around physically and dealing with the bureaucracy..  

OTOH going to a large school is kind of like living in a large city. When you live in New York  you're not living with the 8.5 million. You're living within your own small village of people, mostly. Same thing at school.

One thing to be careful about is that many large schools, especially those that have "state" in their names, are predominantly commuter schools.  You want to be sure that the resident community at those places has a life of its own. We know one kid who left such a school after one semester because he felt isolated and lonely on weekends.

BOF posted:

 We did "T Charts" on schools and ranked them numerically based on a criteria list we came up with. We used a 1-10 scale and then went down the list that included cost, location, coaches, academics, size, and anything else that we could come up with that would help him make a good decision. This is typically something that is done in a "decision analysis" process in business, but works perfectly in these cases. It will force him to logically look at his decision and tends to take out the emotional aspects. We always did this right after a visit and then after a few days. Always give it time as emotion from a visit impacts a young person and you want to help them make an informed choice, not an emotional one.

 

Very good advice.   Speaks, also, to why coaches like to get commitments in person at the conclusion of a visit, while still in the Coach's office.  Get them while the emotions and *wow* factor are running high.

Just an opinion on one of the biggest repeated mantras "GO WHERE THEY LOVE YOU". If a kid is being recruited, coaches job is to "MAKE SURE THE KID KNOWS WE LOVE HIM". 

The coach's know what they are selling, they know what the kid wants. They are the best of the best at selling their product. 

Now if one school offers 35% and the second 65%, who loves you more?

(today's earworm for you at no charge, I know RJM will sing along)

https://youtu.be/_4Y9JwY8pEk

Who loves you pretty baby?

Who's gonna love your mama?

+1 Go44Dad.  You get extra style points for the music as well.

ROOTHOG,

Things can get antsy, but your son is in a unique position.  Most DIs are done recruiting position players, most of the top 2018 pitchers have already committed.  However, most every DI would say they never have enough pitching. And most DIs can find money if they want someone bad enough.  Even those that claim they have no money left say that because they aren't interested in the player.  Then there is the draft and some DI coaches are already counting on the fact they will be losing pitchers to the draft... see Vanderbilt.

So the unique position your son is in is this... He is a big strong pitcher that can throw 90+ strikes and probably more to come in the near future.  Those guys don't grow on trees.  He is one of the best uncommitted pitchers in the country. 

I know people say you should choose a school based on not playing baseball.  That is easy to say, but the vast majority of kids we see are choosing a college based on baseball first and everything else after that.  The number of kids that want to play at the big winners is astounding.  Of course it's nice to have choices between top baseball programs where baseball is equal and the other things make a  big difference. 

There are a lot of good baseball programs and a lot of good colleges.  Remember that love at first sight often turns sour after awhile.  Sometimes those showing the most love are simply the best salesmen.  So it really comes down to the offer when schools are similar.  That is closer to true love! Not to be confused with lasting love.

Sometimes these things are fairly simple. Not in any specific order...

1. Where will I get the best education?

2. Where will I have the best chance to develop as a baseball player?

3. Where will I have the best chance to develop as person?

4. Where will I have the most enjoyment?

5. How much is everything going to cost?

Put them in the order most important to your son and family.  Because there might be some give and take involved.

By chance is one of the schools about 90 miles north of Cuba?

Big in state UF was intimidating to son, who chose smaller out of state, who had many out of state players who couldn't go home on the weekend.

As to something mentioned in another post in this topic, baseball will consume most of your players time he is not in the classroom or studying, in the fall  bit less than in the spring. Most players do not have opportunities to enjoy the total college experience. If one wants that, D1 baseball isn't for you.

It's ok for baseball to come first in the decision making. But all the other variables have to be above the line/acceptable. If baseball doesn't work out in the long run am I getting an acceptable education here? Is this a location I can live for four years? Will I be adequately happy here? 

RJM posted:

It's ok for baseball to come first in the decision making. But all the other variables have to be above the line/acceptable. If baseball doesn't wotk out in the long run am I getting an acceptable education here? Is this a location I can live for four years? Will I be adequately happy here? 

Good points.  I will add:  "if they drop my financial aid package after one year (applicable to all but the Power 5 Conferences), can I afford to stay here?"

3and2Fastball posted:

RJM posted:

It's ok for baseball to come first in the decision making. But all the other variables have to be above the line/acceptable. If baseball doesn't wotk out in the long run am I getting an acceptable education here? Is this a location I can live for four years? Will I be adequately happy here? 

Good points.  I will add:  "if they drop my financial aid package after one year (applicable to all but the Power 5 Conferences), can I afford to stay here?"

That's it in a nutshell!

RJM posted:

It's ok for baseball to come first in the decision making. But all the other variables have to be above the line/acceptable. If baseball doesn't wotk out in the long run am I getting an acceptable education here? Is this a location I can live for four years? Will I be adequately happy here? 

YES, that is what I was trying to get at.  The sentence..... "He would never consider this school with other coaches or without baseball."...followed up with...."He doesn't HATE the school. He just likes some others more.".....it leads me to wonder if he likes it at all. Coaches leave, players get injured, and it's not like he can go home often.  One would THINK he would have to at least be adequately happy there, as RJM put it.

"2) Go to a school that you would still want to attend if baseball were to disappear."

So I'm going to provide a different take on this, mostly from my son's personal experience, so it may or may not apply to you and yours.

First, would you son consider EITHER school if not for the baseball opportunity?  If baseball went away (and the athletic portion of his scholarship), would he prefer to stay there regardless, and would your family even consider making the necessary financial contribution to remain there as a student vs transferring to a more preferred school closer to home or more within your financial reach (and both schools may be in your financial reach, just throwing it out there).

Frankly, my son is in school for baseball.  If not for baseball, he would likely have never even considered this school and my wife and I would not have paid the out of state tuition for him to attend as simply a student.

Many use baseball as an avenue to get into certain schools that they want to attend but otherwise wouldn't be accepted.  If this is your kid, and the school(s) would have been on a target list he would have made, absent any baseball influence, then mantra 2 is applicable.  If your son is considering one or both of the schools because of the baseball opportunities they present, then throw mantra 2 out the window, because it really doesn't apply anyway.

For my son, if baseball went away entirely, he may stay at his current school, but it's certainly not something that factored into his decision in any way.  The assumption for him is and always has been that he is there to play baseball first.  If baseball goes away, he'll cross that bridge at that time.

I used to think that a player should consider all aspects of the school that is recruiting him.

The truth is that most players chose the program to play beyond HS.  Whether it be the coaches, the success of the program, who they play, more than likely everything else is secondary.

Good stuff NUKE83.

Go44dad posted:

Just an opinion on one of the biggest repeated mantras "GO WHERE THEY LOVE YOU". If a kid is being recruited, coaches job is to "MAKE SURE THE KID KNOWS WE LOVE HIM". 

The coach's know what they are selling, they know what the kid wants. They are the best of the best at selling their product. 

Now if one school offers 35% and the second 65%, who loves you more?

(today's earworm for you at no charge, I know RJM will sing along)

https://youtu.be/_4Y9JwY8pEk

Who loves you pretty baby?

Who's gonna love your mama?

It's tough to know, though, when BOTH coaches sing this ditty:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqz9eyakGqY

Re: If baseball ends would you want to be there?

If not, transfer. If baseball sucks transferring can be a complicated issue. 

RJM mentioned transferring.   Transferring is the heartburn I would have by ignoring the second mantra.   Everybody is agreeing on the first mantra.   In my time at HSBBWeb (and the many baseball people I know in my little corner of the world) it seems that many more young men are transferring (for baseball reasons) from their original school than not.  It seems to me this can be avoided in many cases.   Overwhelmingly, these are D1 Power-5 or top mid-majors.  Where I'm going with this is.....why can't a recruit knowing he is going into this ultra competitive baseball environment hedge his bets (and future) by picking the better academic situation from the get go....even at the expense of a few scholarship dollars?  

Possibly, this is just my perspective.  My oldest son picked a more academic school over scholarship dollars because he was more serious about academics than baseball as a career.   He loves baseball but was willing to forego it for his degree.