Recruiting Scenario #1

You need to know what your financial aid is for the out of state school to help decide.

Also, define your priorities. Does he have any chance of going pro? If not, then education should be your goal in my opinion.

Just know that if you try to walk on you might not make it but he will get a great education.

Me? I would take the education in this scenario. He's going to get the most out of that.

Good luck. Whatever choice you make will be the best one for you.

It is highly doubtful that those two schools are his only two options.

Do some research.

He has the advantage of knowing what level of school is showing interest. What conference do they play in, where are in they in the conference standings.

Armed with that information look at other schools within that conference, or schools in other conferences that are at the same level within their conference.

And if both of the schools in your scenario are D1 schools, don't forget to look at D2 programs as well.

Certainly there are other schools that play at a similar level of baseball who also may meet your cost and academic interests.

Once you find a few contact them. Just because a coach has not contaced a player does not mean he has no interest. You can spark the interest with contact and find out where it goes.

You know what? I think this scenario (or some variation of it) is one that many face. I think its a good question at its most basic form...that is...Should I let the dream of playing college athletics take the driver's seat in my education process?

I don't think the answer is easy or straight forward. I know my father wouldn't let a diving scholarship determine where my sister went to school or what she studied...and everything turned out exceedingly well for her.

I also have a good friend who tells me playing basketball at a tiny Northeastern school was one of the best things he ever did. And things sure turned out exceedingly well for him too.

I know people who went to, well lets say under-regarded universities and I know plenty who went to, well lets say over-regarded universities...and the thing that seems to be the underlying factor that makes them successful is THEM. Thats right...THEM. How much do they want that next promotion? How hard do they want to work? What are their priorities?

Observer - I think many successful people would be successful at pretty much any path or profession or college they would have chosen. I have 6 kids...they are all different...and the decision you pose should probably be a little different for each of them. So I would suggest that for THIS decision, you are likely in a pretty good position to have a pretty good idea what is the right path for THIS son.

Good luck!

For any player, school should be (but we know it isn't always so) the first consideration.
Finances are a personal matter. Personally, I don't think I would want to spend my money on a so-so education just so my son could play baseball in college, unless I had money to burn, which I don't. Grants and financial scholarships are not easy to get these days from the government. For most, their HS baseball days end when they enter college. And for those who play in college, their playing days end when handed their diploma.
If an out of state school is very much interested in a player, they can give out of state waivers, something one might ask if the offer comes up.
Sometimes, I know it is hard, but the dream has to end at sometime. I know that many players who are committed to the dream, work VERY hard at the game but still end up spending a lot of time on the bench. This is not how I would want my son to spend his time in college.

As Justbaseball suggests, it is up to the player, they have to decide their priorities before they feel comfortable with their final decision.

There are certain posts that cannot be improved upon and the ones that have been put up here so far are excellent. I happen to agree with justbb in particular - THEM decides everything. Everything is up to them.

Look, I think a baseball dream can be chased only ONCE. The academic thing can be chased at different times of life and still achieve spectacular results. For instance, one could choose a better baseball experience overall yet lower perceived academics in the short term. If the baseball thing does not work out, you can always finish your degree or get an advanced degree at a name school IF that is even necessary. If you forgo baseball on the other hand, you basically cannot rectify that decision in the future.

I think AParent is entirely right - I'll betcha that there would be other schools interested in the player. He/parents need to do a little more work - just about guarantee you there are more options. Much in this scenario depends on the player's desire to continue in baseball.

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:

Look, I think a baseball dream can be chased only ONCE. The academic thing can be chased at different times of life and still achieve spectacular results. For instance, one could choose a better baseball experience overall yet lower perceived academics in the short term. If the baseball thing does not work out, you can always finish your degree or get an advanced degree at a name school IF that is even necessary. If you forgo baseball on the other hand, you basically cannot rectify that decision in the future.

Only thing to remember, transfering isn't always that easy. Example, transfer going from smaller to a big D1 program I know of, decided not to pursue, as he lost too many credits.
The "if" should be factored in.

My son was in a similar situation...not a blue chip player, but very good, and a very good student. Although we worked through a scouting service, the colleges that were interested were not acceptable academically--to me, and were in geographical areas not acceptable to him.

My son researched the schools in his dream area and identified the academic requirements. The Princeton Review's Complete Guide to the 1700 Colleges and Universities is a FABULOUS resource. It is a wealth of information on just about everything from tuition to academic requirements to the number of books in the library. He just HAPPENED to discover a school at a college fair in mid-October which fit his priorities, made contact with the coach, went on college visits to other schools, and applied to many schools. He followed all of the deadlines--priority applications to financial aid, etc. He received a bunch of money for academics, kept in contact with the coach, and as it turns out, received a decent amount of baseball money. The school is a PERFECT fit for him. No, it is not a premier D1, but it is a solid D2 in an excellent conference. And at this point it looks like he will start as a freshman. "Redshirt" has only been mentioned as it relates to their school colors! Prior to last October, we hadn't even heard of the school, but we are mighty glad we did. It's important to go to college fairs.

We also discovered that many colleges don't have a great deal of recruiting money or time to recruit players, especially those from outside their area. It is very important and very helpful for the student to contact the coach. It's been our experience that most coaches are very open and grateful when they do.

There are 1700 colleges and universities in the United States. There is the right college for each player who wants to keep their dream alive. It just might not be the one you think about right now, and it might not be one that you've heard of. But it is worth exerting some effort and spending some time to find it. Good luck and have fun. It's only SEPTEMBER!!!!

play baseball,
Great story of your son's journey and congratulations and best of luck to your son.
The best part is that he did his own research and made HIS own decision.

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Sorry, did not make this clear in the initial post...

While this is not our '06's situation...exactly...I am watching scores of non-blue-chip parents wrestle with the issue that justbaseball synopsised so sincinctly:

quote:

Should I let the dream of playing college athletics take the driver's seat in my education process?

I knew if I put this to the choir that I would get some excellent responses that would offer me as well as others some perspective. I was right. Thought that there were some excellent suggestions...

- Explore additional fiancial aid options....
- More research...
- Prioritize education...
- Go sideways to other schools...
- Look at DII's...
- Guage the passion of the dream...
- Chase the dream, it is fleeting...
- Then there was the enlightneing personal example..

Conflicting advice? No, I think what ties it altogether and is so hard for us to remember is what justbaseball said so insightfully...

quote:

I know people who went to, well lets say under-regarded universities and I know plenty who went to, well lets say over-regarded universities...and the thing that seems to be the underlying factor that makes them successful is THEM. Thats right...THEM. How much do they want that next promotion? How hard do they want to work? What are their priorities?

All this is such a personal choice. What may work for one player, one family, does not work for another. One player may squander a top flight baseball provided education, another may educate himself exceptionally well at a so callled lower level university. So much depends upon, THEM. As well it should. What may look foolish may, in fact be an inteligent well thought out perfect fit. So hard to know until it is made...

I will take this info and any additional that you all may offer subsequently, back with me to the recruting trail it will certainly all help those I am standing next to on the sidelines.

As for my '06 his story is still pending and will share it as it unfolds....



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I've been looking for someone to kindly post the "master" list of colleges with "bad academics" for years now - and no-one will
anyway, I can think of 1,
it's the "Barber College", and they only have weekend softball

I had another, a non-conference rival - - but since changed my mind as their "turf management" guys seem to be really doing great out in the real world

simply tho,
my take would be to go to the bad school play great ball 4 yrs, be at the top the Dean's list, earn academic all-conference, and academic all-american honors -
then go to Grad school at the good school free on a fellowship

hope that helps

And you think the good schoolsaren't gonna figure out that someone from a joke school doesn't deserve a fellowship... Any school worth it's salt is gonna dismiss the paper that so-called "Dean's List" is printed on. The academic part is no different from the baseball part - you gotta earnit.

quote:

you think the good schoolsaren't gonna figure out that someone from a joke school doesn't deserve a fellowship

sportsmom, good point, I guess

anyway, for those of us who don't have inside info, could you caution us on at least the top 10 from that "joke school" list?



just', ya bailed on me "Bearcat"

Lets step back a bit:

How much exposure has he had?

Where does HE want to go to school?

You note an out of state school showing interest and in state where he would walk on--- are there other schools talking to him---it is still very early in the process so I would not fret--you have all fall to gain more exposure.

Let me give you an example--- we have a young man with us this fall who saw limited exposure, for whatever the reasons, this summer--- he pitched for a team in our showcase tournament two weeks ago and is now with us for the fall season-- he pitched with us at Coastal Carolina last weekend --- after the two events he has one offer on the table, two to come after he pitches this weekend upcoming. And I know there is more coming because coaches have spoken with me

Before this he had nothing--things happen in funny ways--get him the exposure this fall and your problem may become academic in a very rapid fashion.

It is a long ride to the finish line

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Wouldn't be TOO hard on a 4.0 and a athletic honors from a tier II acdemic school...

Have been told by graduate schools that a DI athlete who holds a very high GPA commands respect with graduate schools simply becasue they have exhibited an ablity to hold downa full time job (baseball) and still excel as a full time student, manage time, team skills, self discpline, priorities, 60-80 hour weeks...in other words they have earned respect.

Sort of the same argument for public vs. private high schools. Is it better to have a 3.2 from a high end academic and $80K in fees or a 4.2 from a good public and have some college tuition in the bank?

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TR...

Agreed, given the current recruiting set up in collge baseball exposure is a must.

The players I know who are looking at this situation do not have a marketing problem. They have been well marketed (big money has been spent), have very high grades but as I mentioned are not athletic Blue Chips.

To answer your question....the young men in question would rather stay DI, in state, but have not got much official "love" and have all been well versed in the pitfalls of walking on.

Your example is a good one. More marketing and exposure offers more chances.....and second, as we move later into the fall and the Blue's make their choices, the remainig coaches get more hungry.

The point of a long ride is well taken.

So is the point that things happen in funny ways, but its hard to explain that to a parent who has invested lots of money, emotion, and 13 years into this process.


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A truth not often acknowledged:

Where you go to school helps you get your first job, perhaps of assistance on the second, but after that, it's how you do what you do.

Very rarely am I asked by clients where I went to law school. I know a couple real zero attorneys that went to Ivy League law schools, and I wouldn't hire them to sharpen my pencils.

Playing a college sport, especially a major sport like baseball, football, or basketball, will attract the attention of many job recuiters. Lots of sports lovers in the world folks. If the dream is to play college baseball, it's not a given that going to a perceived "lesser" educational school will be harmful in the long haul, and may actually be a benefit.

Being on the right pony also helps !!!!

Bee...I bailed because I thought my post sounded too self-serving after reading it. But I DO agree with Bee's post above. They pretty much teach the same stuff from the same textbooks at any accredited undergraduate school. In the long run, it won't matter too much where you go...it will matter more how you do and what you do after school.

Lets just say I personally took a path similar to the one Bee recommended.

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Justbaseball....didn't see anything self serving in your comments. In fact as always found them insightful.

[quote]Playing a college sport, especially a major sport like baseball, football, or basketball, will attract the attention of many job recuiters. Lots of sports lovers in the world folks. If the dream is to play college baseball, it's not a given that going to a perceived "lesser" educational school will be harmful in the long haul, and may actually be a benefit.[/quote]

In the great debate, academics vs. baseball, those words quoted above are not frequently spoken, but I think are very true, too.

Nice post, hokie.......

Bee -
Your post has really struck me. We are wrestling with the bad academics/good baseball vs good academics/bad baseball decision. I agree with you. Go for it on the baseball and worry about upgrading your education later!

Great info on this thread!

Another aspect is your school choice can have a direct impact on where you'll be living after school.

i.e. an accounting degree from SFSU will get you a job via contacts etc in the bay area more readily then in LA. However an accounting degree from UCB will generally work just as well in LA as it will in SF. And yes both schools use the same text etc. Plus the big accounting firms have internal hiring quotas/targets from "national" schools such as Notre Dame, USC, BYU, UCB, UCLA etc. I am sure many other majors are similiar.

-Most students don't go onto graduate school so be careful not to undestimate the impact of your undergraduate education choice.

This thread is starting to take on an aura of being a candidate for the golden threads forum

hokione, bee, and justbb

I did not even take an educational path similar to justbb (i.e., not one name school on my resume) and my career is excellent.

I will say this to the youngsters that may be reading this thread. Take something useful when you go to school. Take something that someone will want to pay good money for your services. These are often times coincident with the harder degrees to obtain in College including Engineering, Science, Computers, Mathematics, Statistics, Economics, and so forth.

CollegeParent - Out of undergraduate school (one some may consider a "joke" school), I could have worked virtually anywhere I wanted and been accepted into any graduate program I wanted too.

Did you know that San Jose State supplies more engineers to Silicon Valley than any other college in the world? SJSU (no, not where I went) is not a school that people often consider a "great" school, but I can tell you that their engineers know how to create and innovate with the best of them.

I won't say there is no truth to your post, but it is sometimes/often overblown. I can tell you there is one VERY BIG name school that we would be very hesitant to hire from based on past experiences. Be careful in overestimating some "name" schools' value on the open market...I'm just saying 'don't bank on it.'

Observer - I erased the post I thought was inappropriate from me.

justbaseball

You are reading way to much into my post

I would agree that the value of a person receiving a degree from a name school can be overblown compared to a no name grad, however this reality doesn't seem to matter at some companies!!

I am just saying that if you go to a " no name school" you should recognize that job opportunites will be greatest near the "no name school". Thus if you want to live in Greenville North Carolina after graduation you're better off at ECU than a SJSU or SFSU.

Yes, the same can be said for a big name school except a UCB or Stanford grad would stand a better chance of getting an interview in Greenville then a SFSU or SJSU grad.

grandslamfan, to clarify - - my reference to "bad academics" was using the the term as it had been mentioned in an earlier post - I also agree with justbb that undergrad studies are generally comparable all over

CollegeParent - Sorry about that! Your points are well-taken.

"Good student, Very solid but not spectacular player, really comitted to the dream and to playing college ball."

Observer, I can relate. That pretty much described our son coming out of high school. If the player is committed to the dream of "playing," I would support looking outside of CA at those schools rated as "Best Values." With some effort, you can find excellent educational and baseball opportunities, or with a little luck they might find you. Especially look at DIII's in the East and South.
Things worked out extremely well for our son and by the end of his 4 years, he had his degree from a very good school and in the view of some, had become an awfully good player. For the next 4 years, there is no substitute for playing under a very good coach and DIII has some really good ones who love players from CA. like the one you describe.