Recruiting Scenerio #2: Recruited Walk On

Great topic. My son may very well be in the same boat, but as a position player. A lot depends on the college, for many schools' rosters are CAPPED, due to Title IX. This means the coaches may be faced with keeping a "walk-on" (even IF recruited) or cutting a player the coach has money invested in. A player in this situation should look very carefully at the possibilities. Being red-shirted may be a legit possiblity in this scenerio.

Great topic indeed. Observer, I don't have anything brilliant to say, but I kind of like the part about the pitching coach who develops his players. I know it is said everyday here that the more money you get the more they love you...etc...etc...I think there are other considerations as you point out and money may not be the most important one.

I guess what I am trying to say is they can have patience with him since it is low risk on their part. Thus, if you feel they are straight shooters and would do everything in their power to develop him, it could work out nicely for him. No doubt a tough decision.

I heard of this concept for the first time at a prospect camp a couple of weeks ago, although the coach called it a "preferred" walk on. In his program, if you had that status, you didn't have to go through the walk on tryout, you played the fall with the team and then they evaluated your status. I would think that someone in that position would have to feel comfortable with the competition at his position and the number of people the coach is bringing back and bringing in and all those other variables to accept that type of offer.

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Thanks.

One aspect I suggest is essential is to discuss with the coaches EXACTLY what their concept of a recruited or preferred/recruited walk on IS.

Even the definition of what one is seems to be cloudy. Don't know if there is a universal definition or expectations and responsibilities the same way that there is for other types of designees.

What are the expectations? The pro's? The Cons?
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...go to a school where you can pitch.

"Recruited Walk-On":

Now that's interesting:

What it means to me is the College Coach offers the student a 'walk on' status (ie ability to tryout at Fall Walk-On Tryouts....which are open to entire college campus students.

There is absolutely zero committment from the Head Coach.

I would suggest (if in conversations) the coach who are offering a 'recruited walk-on status to your HS player, that a Spring Roster spot is coupled with the Coaches walk-on status!

If yes, you are closer to competing.
If no, you know where you stand with the Fall squad........ie the student must beat another player who is on the club ....flat out)

Regards
Bear



b)

I would imagine such a thing exits. However, I would think he could give teh player something, and then redshirt, scholarship does not count against the 11.7.

I don't understand why a coach would take the time to develop a player with no committment, that player is obligated to "walk off" at anytime.


Observer,
What's with the periods?

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Never ceases to amaze me what one can find here...

Just found a section on the HSBBW site map that has an article on "Invited Walkons" that was enlightening. Highlights the differecnes between invited and common walk on's. While it does not answer everything it helps. Still looking for more info though.....anyone?


As far as redshirting goes...it is interesting but the players I have talked to say that the coaches offering are confident enough that they can develop the pitchers that they are keeping the red shirt option open, but feel confident that they will not have to use it - development will be rapid and significant.

TPM...Do a great deal of reading and writing - in subject and out - and have come to belive that in a society where "clickeritis," and USA Today media bites are the norm, that presentation is now nearly as important as content to real consideration of ideas and the resulting communication.

White space is key. Long unbroken paragrpahs and windy thoughts lose readers who are conditioned to 5, 15, 30 and 60 second attention spans.

When I remember to, I use the periods to space out....which of course is what I most often anyway...

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Observer,
My impression from your first post would be that the player needs a year or two for development. Now you state development may be rapid. Confusing.

College coaches put players in to play and win games. I don't think I would want mine to play a game or two and lose eligibilty waiting to develop as a pitcher.

Either way, when considering this option, you might want to discuss it with the coach, not the players. But you knew that already I am sure.

Have kept enough white space open so you would not lose interest.

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keep in mind there are about 280 DI pitching coaches out there that can develop pitchers - - - and . . . the coaches with the great "track records" are mostly coaches who have recruited the best pitchers

also a key part of that development is "game innings"

sometimes you hear much fuss over the story of a certain walk-on's success - - with good reason as he's overcome extreme odds

good luck

Track record, track record, track record...

Did I say "track record?"

While it's ALWAYS important to dig into the facts concerning a coaching staff's propensities to do what they claim they will do, I can think of no more important circumstance for that to happen. When they're talking with you about their plans for your son as an "invited walk-on," make certain that they speak very specifically about recent players who have had positive experiences in that role. Then, follow up with one-on-one discussions with players and parents to confirm their assertions.

As others on this thread have suggested, the odds are pretty stacked against non-scholarship players who are on the roster. That's not to say that you can't find acceptable/desirable situations; but, at the very least, it's going to require some pretty special due diligence on your part to confirm expectations the coaches create.

Best of luck to your son!

An invited (recruited) walkon usually has one leg up on those not invited because the coach has usually seen the player before the fall tryouts--thus the invite (recruited)

I’m with Bee, Prepster, Observer44, and TPM. To me a recruited walk on is like a prenuptial agreement that only one person signs. The coach has nothing to lose. The player has everything to lose from a baseball perspective and only a slim chance to gain anything. I think the recruited walk scenario might be beneficial if the player has no other options or JUST wants to be a small part of a particular program. But.... there are some players that accept this and are quite happy with it. I have talked to parents of recruited walk-ons and many of these players put academics far ahead of baseball and are just enjoying the moment of being part of the team. I think the player that is looking to be an impact player for a baseball program needs to understand the little fish in the big pond environment he is putting himself into by accepting the recruited walk-on role.
Just my opinion.
Fungo

.....(that means pause here)....

Keep in mind that the "Invited Walkon" is a key element in Division III Fall try outs

TRHit,
With no baseball scholarships at DIII's wouldn't all recruited players be recruited walk-ons????

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Good Stuff....

TPM...Can see the confusion...Could be impact in a year or two, could be a contributor the first year after a fall's worth of hard work. If development goes well, but again, not an immediate impact, not expected to be. Still only projectable so at a DI, not "NLI'able." (nice work on the white... )


TPM...2..and Prepster....yep, My advice exactly. KNOW what your looking at. Communicate. research. Talk to the coaches at legnth. In one of these instances, this school, this coach and this program has a long track record of valuing walk on's, of developing pitchers from raw material, and seeing future where others do not. That help?


BEE...Good point. As soon as a pitching coach gets a rep he no longer has to develop players as much, he gets much higher quality recruits.

TR..Not only has he got a leg up by being seen, but my research among the "experts" is that often these offer include a spring roster position, thought due diligence and nailing that option down is certainly prudent.

Fungo..Good Synopsis. Certainly a one way agreement...on the other hand there is a body of knowledge out there (talk to HSBBW oldtimer Justbaseball) that would tell you that the NLI's are not worth the paper they are written on as well. Go Figure...

Another two key elements IMO...

DI in a quality conference so would not take the pleysr unless he was pretty sure that a significant contributiuon would be made in the future.

second...Another key element not mentioned. The coach can save scholarship money. If he can bring in a player for nothing he has more to offer the higher end immediate impact guys. In a backdoor way wouldn't it help the team win?

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quote:

DI in a quality conference so would not take the pleysr unless he was pretty sure that a significant contributiuon would be made in the future.

I disagree!!!!
happens all the time.

Observer,
It's a hard question to answer, based on personal preference.
My son tells me about the kids who decide to leave after a year or two. It is extremely difficult, the team is very very close. They love school, could stay to finish up but just want to go PLAY, all of the time, not just randomly.
I only know if it was my son, I would want him to go where he would stay and be happy. That's so importnat, more important than a full scholarship (which doesn't always make one happy). My son's freinds were recruited walk ons. They didn't see much playing time, and when they did, they were much better than some of the scholarship players. They didn't see lots of instruction either. The second year nothing changed. The coach told them his budget was cut back, they couldnt even get gloves. I would hate to mention the school, well known D1 (smaller) and great baseball program. To me, it looked like they just needed bodies for Fall practice. They were rostered IMO as fill ins, not on teh travel squad.

This is a common and of course interesting scenario.....

For the college coach, if he is telling the kid that he has a spot on the roster, then what he is doing is hoping that the kid develops into a pitcher who can help him win games in the future. For the coach, in this situation the program does not lose. If the kid doesn't develop, the team has not lost an investment.

For the kid, it can be looked at more than one way. Some kids are going to want to take advantage of this opportunity to play D-I and believe they are going to succeed, and some of them will succeed. That is a great situation, and can work into at least a little scholarship money later.

Other kids may want to go some place that they know they will get some quality innings in as a freshman....or where they think they will get some quality innings in as a freshman......

I know a non-pitcher who was presented this opportunity and jumped at the chance, and had about 100 plate appearances as a true freshman in a major D-I conference.....it sure seemed to be a great opporunity for him!

Bottom line, this is a tough scenario to predict......there is no wrong way to go.

FUNGO

not the case at all--- some D III players are truly recruited--they do not just try out in the fall--the coaches know who they are before they get there

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Grateful...

Good synopsis..

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TRHit, Aren't recruited walk-ons recruited??? As I see it, at a DIII college, a recruited walk-on is a recruited player that receives no scholarship. But you make a distinction and say there are “Truly" recruited players at DIII’s. These are also recruited players that receive no scholarships. What’s the difference? If you say they don’t have to try-out in the fall then the “recruited” walk-on would NOT qualify as a recruited walk-on but merely “invited” to attend try-outs. I think the “recruited walk-on” label would only be applicable at those levels (DI’s, D-2’s, Juco’s, etc.) that offer athletic scholarships. Either you or I are getting caught up in the semantics here.
Fungo

Living in a state where there is only 1 D1 baseball program (UW-M) and one other D1 school with reciprocity (UMinn) I get the impression that the coaches sometimes try to lure the in-state kid (who may still pay less than he would with a partial scholarship at an out of state) with the recruited walk-on status.

FUNGO

I never said they dont have to try out and I also noted the Division III aspect

What I said is that they have one leg up because the coaches have already seen them play

Not a matter of semantics--just facts-- all players "try out" at Division III but some have a leg up because they have been seen and "invited"--doesnt mean they make the cut but they are a step ahead going in

Semantics seems to be everything in this area.

Here is how I always thought they were defined (correct me if I am wrong):


Scholarship player: (pretty obvious I know) kid gets scholarship money. Does not attend try-outs. Has a place on the fall roster.

Recruited walk-on player: recruited by the coach to play for his team. Does not receive any scholarship money. Does not attend try-outs. Has a place on the fall rosters.

Invited walk-on player: player who has visited with the coach. Coach has some interest, but not enough to give him a spot on the roster. Invites him to try-out. Will look him over during try-outs. Must be selected during try-outs to have a spot on the roster.

Walk-on player: player who shows up at try-outs hoping to get a place on the roster. May or may not have ever spoken with the coach.

AParent:

In our experience, the term "recruited walk-on" never arose. An "invited walk-on" at UNC carries exactly the same status accorded your definition of "recruited walk-on." An "invited walk-on" gets a spot on the roster...works out with the team...no scholarship.

The term I'd apply to anyone below that status (someone attending the one-day tryout) in generous terms would be "hopeful."

We've had some good news this week. Our youngest made it through the fall cut as a walk on and is still on the team!

We never knew if he was an "invited walk on" or just a plain walk on when he transfered from a JUCO. His research consisted of calling the coach and talking with him about his chances of making the team. He met the staff in June at orientation and had a good feeling about everything. We discussed his options at length, but in the end he wanted to give it his best shot and we've backed him 100%.

Several years ago I think I actually posted something to the effect that I would never want our sons to walk on a college baseball program. But as usually happens when life takes in you different directions, my perspective changed.

That's WONDERFUL news!!! Congratulations!!

TxMom,

Congrats to your son, and please keep the updates coming!

Lois ...

That is wonderful news about your youngin' !!! Sounds like he has a great head on his shoulders, did his homework, and is reaping the fruits of his labor. Hope to hear more great news when the final roster is set !!! If he makes the team, you can bring a lot of info and insight to the HSBBW from a totally different perspective than that of the parents whose sons were recruited out of high school and JUCO.

Mary Ann

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TxMom...

I really value your comments about perspectives. I have said this before on this site...stuff happens. It is very easy, simplistic and a disservice to the Non Blue posters and visitors to take a very idealistic viewpoint of the process. For many it is not a slam dunk but a long and winding road with many potholoes and any number of ways to get to the goal.

To my way of thinking taking the walk on route and making the cut on an NCAA team is one of the most impressive things a young man can accomplish. Congratulations!

I don't get around as much as I would like...IF you don't mind me asking what school?

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Thanks everyone!
He's at Texas Tech and loves it.

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TxMom...

We'll all be watchin' and rootin'....

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TXmom

Congratulations !!!! I am sure your son is very pleased, as he should be.

observer44

quote:

It is very easy, simplistic and a disservice to the Non Blue posters and visitors to take a very idealistic viewpoint of the process

What exactly is a Non Blue poster?

I personally think it is great when a kid finds success following a non-traditional path.

The risks are also much greater.

Don't be so hard on folks who give out advise that tends to lean towards more tried and true methods.

After all, most kids are looking for what gives them the BEST CHANCE of success.

Which, when it is all said and done, more often than not, will be the more traditional methods.

TXmom, Congrats. I am a proud father of an Ivy League senior who was a true walk-on as a freshman. It certainly is a huge accomplishment that not many readers truly understand. Everyone should go through it as a parent. It speaks very well of your son to be able to hang in there. It is not easy, however a very rewarding experience. In many cases you will find that your walk-ons are more deserving than the highly recruited players. Best of luck

Txmom - Congrats to your son for his hard work and determination which is obviously paying off. May he continue to have great success.

txmom, congrats to your son from Ohio

& congrats to T-Tech for getting a good player



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TxMom---

Love your posts and equally love when good things happen to good people! Best of luck to BOTH of your sons...they've got good genes!!