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Chad,
Good question I will try to give you an honest answer.
When son was younger some of his coaches were former college, ML and MLB players. Although each was able to inspire and give instruction on their position, I never really thought that any of them were really good as far as being really good at coaching the game.
I am under the impression that recruiting in baseball is a business. The best college recruiters are also businessmen. Therefore I would expect a recruiting service to not only know the ins and outs of recruiting but to be knowledgeable in business as well. Being former professional athletes doesn't mean they would make good businessmen.
MAYBE is my answer.
Good question I will try to give you an honest answer.
When son was younger some of his coaches were former college, ML and MLB players. Although each was able to inspire and give instruction on their position, I never really thought that any of them were really good as far as being really good at coaching the game.
I am under the impression that recruiting in baseball is a business. The best college recruiters are also businessmen. Therefore I would expect a recruiting service to not only know the ins and outs of recruiting but to be knowledgeable in business as well. Being former professional athletes doesn't mean they would make good businessmen.
MAYBE is my answer.
Chad....in our panic....discovering at a very late date that we were so far behind the recruitment process.....it wasn't even funny.....well.....we went with a professional recruitment service......
BUT.....this site and all it's information was what got son to the next level......
Not the professional recruitment service....
What we did......following the advise on this site....that's what did it......Now....that said....if parents and players do not want to send out tons of personal letters to Coaches, maintain the files, emails, and follow up phone calls.....if they do not want to invest a lot of personal time in the recruitment process....and it did take a lot of time.....then a professional service may be the answer.....
BUT.....this site and all it's information was what got son to the next level......
Not the professional recruitment service....
What we did......following the advise on this site....that's what did it......Now....that said....if parents and players do not want to send out tons of personal letters to Coaches, maintain the files, emails, and follow up phone calls.....if they do not want to invest a lot of personal time in the recruitment process....and it did take a lot of time.....then a professional service may be the answer.....
TPM, I agree! I would be more interested if the service had former College coaches and and former college recruiters who would have coaching contacts, and have been on that side of the fence.
Thank you all for your answers, I really appreciate it. These are answers that are going to help out quite a bit. What I think seperates this site from recruiting services, meaning www.hsbaseballweb.com, is the online community and conversations. This is part of the plan I and my partner have for the recruiting service. We don't plan to send out the letters, but provide templates for each student athletes so that there's a personalization process. I am a businessman, I've owned my own real estate company for some time...and feel like my entreprenuer capabilities are part of the reasons I've been succesful in baseball as well as business. I don't like the recruiting services out there, I'll be honest. Many are scheming and money hungry. We want to run a profitable business, but we want to have a philanthropic heart behind the process. Recruiting IS a business and that's where most parents or guardians get in trouble, because they aren't informed and warned of the road ahead. That's why hsbaseballweb is such a success. I found this site and now I'm writing on this site not to promote my company, we're in the startup phase, but I want to be part of this community. I want to give back and help people avoid the road blocks. My mother had to make decisions during my recruiting process...she went on visits, received mail, received phone calls and preached to me about grades and backup plans. I've been through the process. I'm also associated with coaches at many universities or have played with guys on the professional level that have intimate relationships (our network is large) with these college coaches. We want to provide an online conversation, community and information hub to eliminate the crookedness and fraud in this process. More of these companies ask too much money for subpar results. We want to provide the connection, the templates and essentially evolve the recruiting process for the good of athletes AND the collegiate programs. I just want what's best for baseball, to be perfectly honest. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I have a wealth of knowledge in baseball and on baseball...feel free to ask me any questions either on here or at my e-mail address chaddurbin@hotmail.com
...but you are still a recruiting service....right?
quote:I'll be honest. Many are scheming and money hungry. We want to run a profitable business, but we want to have a philanthropic heart behind the process.
Chad, as a businessman I know that making money and running a profitable business are one in the same. I also know a philanthropist does not perform a service for profit. There are many on this site that provide a recruiting service with a philanthropic heart. That's the heart and soul of this website. That is why it prospers. When you say you provide assistance in recruiting and you charge a fee .... you meet the litmus test for a recruiting service. If you wish to promote your services on the HSBBW you will need to address that with the site administrator. In the meantime, feel free (and be free) to share your knowledge with those on the HSBBW. No promos please.
Fungo
Having been a professional athlete does not necessarily mean they know the recruiting process--- in fact it can be a detriment because it was all probably too easy for them during the recruiting process if in fact they went thru it
Most professionals I have seen associated with the college athletic recruting process don't really have a good understanding of recruiting because they were offered 80 scholarships in college and really didn't have to go through the process of researching and selecting colleges. I have also noticed that many professionals in recruiting aren't interested in rolling up their sleeves and actually doing the dirty work, but are lending their name and money to a service and are hoping people sign up because there is a marquee name there.
Love the replies, thank you very much. Skepticism is welcome, because that's what we want. I do want everyone here to understand that I am NOT putting the website's url on here and I'm not promoting through here. Gathering valid information isn't such a bad idea.
The notion that most professional athletes were given scholarships is generally correct. The partner that I'm working with actually went through a near impossible experience with recruiting. He is from a small town in Indiana. Left handed, very talented, pitcher. He paid a recruiting service $800 dollars back in 1992, while in high school, to help him get to the next level. He received almost NO help through the service and ended up going to a small D3 in his home town. He had to maintain a 3.5 GPA to keep his academic scholarship while playing baseball. He wasn't looked at during his entire college career...while compiling more than impressive numbers, throwing 90mph and leading his team to the national title in 1996. He WAS drafted, but for a lefthanded pitcher throwing 90mph to not be heavily recruited for either college or pro is a shame. His main purpose behind creating a service is to eliminate the fraud and poor services and maintain a credible, highly moral, highly ethical service that can change points of view as most of you have. I believe in what hsbaseballweb is doing...creating a free site for comminication, conversation and information. It's VERY helpful and I support it 100%. Wanting to create a recruiting service that will be priced more affordable and provide mountains of information is a goal. The site will be free to everyone...the database and profile will be the cost, but to navigate through and gain information through the site will be free. I just want everyone to understand that we're in this for the right reasons. That will remain to be seen, understandably. Thanks for all the insights!! Chad
The notion that most professional athletes were given scholarships is generally correct. The partner that I'm working with actually went through a near impossible experience with recruiting. He is from a small town in Indiana. Left handed, very talented, pitcher. He paid a recruiting service $800 dollars back in 1992, while in high school, to help him get to the next level. He received almost NO help through the service and ended up going to a small D3 in his home town. He had to maintain a 3.5 GPA to keep his academic scholarship while playing baseball. He wasn't looked at during his entire college career...while compiling more than impressive numbers, throwing 90mph and leading his team to the national title in 1996. He WAS drafted, but for a lefthanded pitcher throwing 90mph to not be heavily recruited for either college or pro is a shame. His main purpose behind creating a service is to eliminate the fraud and poor services and maintain a credible, highly moral, highly ethical service that can change points of view as most of you have. I believe in what hsbaseballweb is doing...creating a free site for comminication, conversation and information. It's VERY helpful and I support it 100%. Wanting to create a recruiting service that will be priced more affordable and provide mountains of information is a goal. The site will be free to everyone...the database and profile will be the cost, but to navigate through and gain information through the site will be free. I just want everyone to understand that we're in this for the right reasons. That will remain to be seen, understandably. Thanks for all the insights!! Chad
IMO, I've yet to see a recruiting service include a personal skills evaluation as part of the service they provide. So to match players with potential college programs they are using the information you've provided to determine a "fit" or they are sending out mass mailings. Unless you are a blue-chip player, College coaches I've talk with take these letters from recruiting services and toss them in their circle files. IMO, Players are more successful when they are the ones to establish the contact with college coaches.
Chad,
As you, yourself mentioned "recruiting services" have a bad name. That's because they deserve it! Too bad, because there could be some (like yourself) who really are involved for the right reasons. In fact, there probably are some good ones already.
Past experience tells me... As a college coach I payed no attention to the mass mailing stuff. Threw it away! This was after one bad experience. Fool me once, shame on you... Fool me twice, shame on me!
When we first started one of our people came up with the idea of starting a recruiting service. We were about to go bankrupt, so we did it. I quickly discovered two things. Those who had lots of ability didn't need to pay us. Those who lacked the necessary ability became our customers. In order to help them do what they paid us for... we needed to become liars and fool college coaches (see paragraph above)! We quit that business in a hurry!
I think you have a lot to offer with lots of experience and knowledge. If you can figure out how to be 100% honest and still provide a valuable service, more power to you. Problem is... if you're 100% honest... you might not have many customers. It sounds like that is exactly what you want to do, though. (I mean be 100% honest)
I wish you well and hope you succeed.
Best of luck.
As you, yourself mentioned "recruiting services" have a bad name. That's because they deserve it! Too bad, because there could be some (like yourself) who really are involved for the right reasons. In fact, there probably are some good ones already.
Past experience tells me... As a college coach I payed no attention to the mass mailing stuff. Threw it away! This was after one bad experience. Fool me once, shame on you... Fool me twice, shame on me!
When we first started one of our people came up with the idea of starting a recruiting service. We were about to go bankrupt, so we did it. I quickly discovered two things. Those who had lots of ability didn't need to pay us. Those who lacked the necessary ability became our customers. In order to help them do what they paid us for... we needed to become liars and fool college coaches (see paragraph above)! We quit that business in a hurry!
I think you have a lot to offer with lots of experience and knowledge. If you can figure out how to be 100% honest and still provide a valuable service, more power to you. Problem is... if you're 100% honest... you might not have many customers. It sounds like that is exactly what you want to do, though. (I mean be 100% honest)
I wish you well and hope you succeed.
Best of luck.
running a successful service is all about helping people make better decisions. The main reason why so many services are disliked by college coaches is that they simply collect peoples money, collect some stats on the players and email or mail them out to hundreds of schools by telling the family that exposure is the most important factor in recruiting.
Saying kids don't need help with the recruiting process is like saying high school students don't need help with the application process and don't need a guidance counselor. In reality many families need help and guidance with recruiting regardless of their skill-level or exposure thus far.
The national graduation rate for all NCAA athletes entering 4-year colleges is 60% within 6 years of starting school. That means 40% of all NCAA athletes transfer or do not graduate from the school they first enrolled in. Much of this 40% can be traced back to a students recruiting process and the decisions they made along the way. Many students leave their school because they do not like their coach, the players on the team, or some aspect of the school, or perhaps they didnt get the playing time they expected.
When we work with families there are three things we tell them before anyone hires us.
(1) Despite the fact that you are paying us we cannot make you a better student. Your grades are your grades and you can either work to raise them or you will be limited as to what schools you can gain acceptance to.
(2) We cannot make you a better athlete. Your skills are your skills and you can either focus on schools where you skills match or you can work on raising your skills through instruction or camps.
(3) There exists the possibility that despite our efforts, you may not receive one dime of athletic scholarship money. Unless you play football or basketball (where the money is) or are very gifted, there simply isn't a lot of athletic money for most other sports at most other schools.
At the end of the day, recruiting is about matching your skills and desires up with a college where you can succeed athletically and academically. The decision you make as to what school to attend is an extremely important one and one that you can’t really afford to get wrong especially if you are an athlete.
For the kids who are good enough to receive scholarship money, they actually have more to lose because if they make a bad decision their tuition money is tied to them participating in their sport. If they are unhappy and don’t want to play, they can either pay their own way or transfer. While those kids don’t need help with exposure, they may need help making a decision and it’s no different than the straight A student who doesn’t play athletics in high school. They too need help in making a decision.
Regardless of scholarship money, the matching part is the most difficult aspect for parents because they don't really understand what to look for and are not always sure how to interpret the interests or desires of college coaches.
The services that mass email and mail coaches simply don't recognize the personal aspect of the recruiting process and they are simply trying to scare kids into thinking that if they don’t send their name out to 600 coaches they wont get a scholarship. While a few kids might get a look through luck that way, most coaches want to hear from students who have done some research on their school and program ahead of time and are sincere in their contact to them.
Saying kids don't need help with the recruiting process is like saying high school students don't need help with the application process and don't need a guidance counselor. In reality many families need help and guidance with recruiting regardless of their skill-level or exposure thus far.
The national graduation rate for all NCAA athletes entering 4-year colleges is 60% within 6 years of starting school. That means 40% of all NCAA athletes transfer or do not graduate from the school they first enrolled in. Much of this 40% can be traced back to a students recruiting process and the decisions they made along the way. Many students leave their school because they do not like their coach, the players on the team, or some aspect of the school, or perhaps they didnt get the playing time they expected.
When we work with families there are three things we tell them before anyone hires us.
(1) Despite the fact that you are paying us we cannot make you a better student. Your grades are your grades and you can either work to raise them or you will be limited as to what schools you can gain acceptance to.
(2) We cannot make you a better athlete. Your skills are your skills and you can either focus on schools where you skills match or you can work on raising your skills through instruction or camps.
(3) There exists the possibility that despite our efforts, you may not receive one dime of athletic scholarship money. Unless you play football or basketball (where the money is) or are very gifted, there simply isn't a lot of athletic money for most other sports at most other schools.
At the end of the day, recruiting is about matching your skills and desires up with a college where you can succeed athletically and academically. The decision you make as to what school to attend is an extremely important one and one that you can’t really afford to get wrong especially if you are an athlete.
For the kids who are good enough to receive scholarship money, they actually have more to lose because if they make a bad decision their tuition money is tied to them participating in their sport. If they are unhappy and don’t want to play, they can either pay their own way or transfer. While those kids don’t need help with exposure, they may need help making a decision and it’s no different than the straight A student who doesn’t play athletics in high school. They too need help in making a decision.
Regardless of scholarship money, the matching part is the most difficult aspect for parents because they don't really understand what to look for and are not always sure how to interpret the interests or desires of college coaches.
The services that mass email and mail coaches simply don't recognize the personal aspect of the recruiting process and they are simply trying to scare kids into thinking that if they don’t send their name out to 600 coaches they wont get a scholarship. While a few kids might get a look through luck that way, most coaches want to hear from students who have done some research on their school and program ahead of time and are sincere in their contact to them.
ghouse,
I like that approach. More of an advisor kind of thing except advisor regarding college more than pro.
Don't know how much clearer someone could be than using the three things you tell parents.
I feel certain that the personal involvement is the only way recruiting services can benefit the student/athlete. There's way too much of the other stuff and it just doesn't work well.
I like that approach. More of an advisor kind of thing except advisor regarding college more than pro.
Don't know how much clearer someone could be than using the three things you tell parents.
I feel certain that the personal involvement is the only way recruiting services can benefit the student/athlete. There's way too much of the other stuff and it just doesn't work well.
ghouse,
You bring up some interesting points. But as usual I'm kind of confused.
How does this percentage compare to the non-athletic student?
While my son received academic letters from colleges, we were NEVER approached by any "fee based recruiting services" for academics only? The student, the parents, the high school staff, and the college staff, provided sufficient information to make his selection. You compare the two as being alike but it appears to me there is a big difference?
So what you're saying you don't get the player MORE options but rather advise the student/athlete which option he should select. Most recruiting services market themselves as "getting" opportunities for the student/athlete but you say opportunities are the result of grades and skill. Good point!
I agree "Fit" is important to the student athlete, but isn't it more critical to the college coach? Remember the athlete can transfer if it’s a "bad fit" but a coach can't just transfer every year. If recruiting services are effective why don't coaches pay for their services or at least endorse the concept?
You bring up some interesting points. But as usual I'm kind of confused.
quote:The national graduation rate for all NCAA athletes entering 4-year colleges is 60% within 6 years of starting school.
How does this percentage compare to the non-athletic student?
quote:
Saying kids don't need help with the recruiting process is like saying high school students don't need help with the application process and don't need a guidance counselor
While my son received academic letters from colleges, we were NEVER approached by any "fee based recruiting services" for academics only? The student, the parents, the high school staff, and the college staff, provided sufficient information to make his selection. You compare the two as being alike but it appears to me there is a big difference?
quote:At the end of the day, recruiting is about matching your skills and desires up with a college where you can succeed athletically and academically. The decision you make as to what school to attend is an extremely important one and one that you can’t really afford to get wrong especially if you are an athlete.
So what you're saying you don't get the player MORE options but rather advise the student/athlete which option he should select. Most recruiting services market themselves as "getting" opportunities for the student/athlete but you say opportunities are the result of grades and skill. Good point!
I agree "Fit" is important to the student athlete, but isn't it more critical to the college coach? Remember the athlete can transfer if it’s a "bad fit" but a coach can't just transfer every year. If recruiting services are effective why don't coaches pay for their services or at least endorse the concept?
To address your questions
The graduation rate for non-athletes is also roughly 60% within 6 years from the original school, but as an athlete, especially an athlete receiving scholarship money, moving from one school to another is more difficult because you still need to find an athletic fit.
As far as options go, it isn't necessarily more options, but the right options. Trying to promote yourself to schools you cannot play at is useless, sot he focus is on specific schools. You naturally create more options by trying to choose better options and getting off the beaten path a bit by looking at some schools that families may not have heard of.
There are some services where coaches pay money for. Mostly in Football and basketball. I know many schools that pay upwards of $20,000 a year to receive comprehensive scouting reports on the best several hundred players in the country. Many schools know about the players already, so some schools use them for a second opinion in case they missed something when they scouted the player personally.
The graduation rate for non-athletes is also roughly 60% within 6 years from the original school, but as an athlete, especially an athlete receiving scholarship money, moving from one school to another is more difficult because you still need to find an athletic fit.
As far as options go, it isn't necessarily more options, but the right options. Trying to promote yourself to schools you cannot play at is useless, sot he focus is on specific schools. You naturally create more options by trying to choose better options and getting off the beaten path a bit by looking at some schools that families may not have heard of.
There are some services where coaches pay money for. Mostly in Football and basketball. I know many schools that pay upwards of $20,000 a year to receive comprehensive scouting reports on the best several hundred players in the country. Many schools know about the players already, so some schools use them for a second opinion in case they missed something when they scouted the player personally.
I always smile when I read these forums on recruiting services because peoples' opinions vary greatly, except there is one consensus on this website: there is a bad taste in peoples' mouths about recruiting services.
Our website was started by an e-major leaguer who ALSO coached college baseball for ten years. So his experience is both as a player AND college coach, not one or the other. He not only worked very hard to become a big league outfielder, he also was actively involved with finding players to play for him at a D1 school.
I think the problem recruiting services have created for themselves is the problem any business creates for iteself: they sell more than they can deliver. I also think parents and players need to decide if they are strictly looking to be placed on a team or are also looking for a scholarship. Will they be satisfied if a service places their son on a team, but does not get them a scholarship? Every situation is unique to that player and their parents and a good service should recognize exactly what the family is looking for and honestly say "Yes we can do that" or "No we can't".
If a player is just looking to play and is less concerned with a scholarship, the recruiting work can be done by him and his parents. If they want more, they may have to pay for it with a service. I agree with what was said above: college coaches make overall better evaluators in a service than pro players, but if the player has been in trenches, especially as a college coach, I would add them to the staff.
Our website was started by an e-major leaguer who ALSO coached college baseball for ten years. So his experience is both as a player AND college coach, not one or the other. He not only worked very hard to become a big league outfielder, he also was actively involved with finding players to play for him at a D1 school.
I think the problem recruiting services have created for themselves is the problem any business creates for iteself: they sell more than they can deliver. I also think parents and players need to decide if they are strictly looking to be placed on a team or are also looking for a scholarship. Will they be satisfied if a service places their son on a team, but does not get them a scholarship? Every situation is unique to that player and their parents and a good service should recognize exactly what the family is looking for and honestly say "Yes we can do that" or "No we can't".
If a player is just looking to play and is less concerned with a scholarship, the recruiting work can be done by him and his parents. If they want more, they may have to pay for it with a service. I agree with what was said above: college coaches make overall better evaluators in a service than pro players, but if the player has been in trenches, especially as a college coach, I would add them to the staff.
For all you do it yourselfers… Check out www.BaseballClick.com. The site provides good & clear information into the college baseball recruiting process. The site provides recruiting manual, a college search platform, writing letters samples and school contact directory for every college baseball program. They also offer a free trial of the site.
Cant that all be gotten on this website?
Yes, and that what’s appealing. It has the same type of information and it also free.... But it also give the users a Free online profile for coaches to view as well. It not a Recruiting service but rather interactive resource information hub for Parents & players during the college selection process. Take a closer look... Baseballclick.com