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Red Shirting Words of Wisdom

beepers40beepers40100+ posts
It appears my son may be redshirting this season. He's a newly converted (senior year in HS) RHP with not a lot of experience at the position. His senior high school season was not one of great success as he struggled with his control, but his fastball sits at 86-87mph and he has what I am told is a very good curveball. Last year at this time his fastball was sitting at 82-83, so he has picked up some velocity as he has learned his craft and also as he has grown (he is a "late bloomer", now pushing 6'1"--he was 5'6" as a sophomore). Most importantly, he has learned to throw strikes and only gave up one run this fall. He's at a top-tier California JUCO where he was an invited (not recruited) walkon. He had a solid fall season and a few weeks ago was elevated to the team squad, the only walk-on player to be so elevated. Incidentally this program does have a history of taking a walkon or two every year, mostly pitchers. They also have a history of redshirting three or four pitchers every year. About a hundred kids come out for fall ball, including players returning from last year's team and new recruits as well as the walkons.

I myself think redshirting is the absolute best thing for him to do, but after his success this fall he had hopes of making the regular team this year and right now is feeling very discouraged. His high school program was a pretty chaotic one where he was "jerked around" a lot and this feels like more of the same to him. I am trying to convince him that this is a different situation, but I myself have little experience in this arena. Any words of wisdom I can offer him? I of course told him to talk to his coach and I expect he will, but he is highly suspicious of "coach talk" as his experience with truthfulness from his previous coach has unfortunately been a very bad one.
"I am thankful for my mom, my dad, my brother, my sister, my dog, my house, and most of the furniture."
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SDBBSDBB500+ posts
Since I don't have experience with JC rules, this brings some questions to my mind. I know you have a total of 5 years from entering any college to complete 4 years of playing in a 4 year NCAA college. And thus redshirting in JC uses up that year for the NCAA school. Now do you have 3 years to play 2 in a JC????

Does your son want to go to a JC 3 years???

What are his aspirations beyond???

Are they realistic?

Is he closer to 17 or 19 years old now???

After a year of RED-shirting will he be more likely to Work hard to get that starting spot or quit?

Will he go on to a 4 year college???

What players are in front of him in terms of playing time????

I think these all need to be examined, yet in the end it will primarily be a coach's decision. He's choose what he thinks to be the best service to his team, and you may or may not have any choice.
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
Redshirting can be a good thing, but most important is he has to learn to trust his coach. He has to change his attitude. If the coach gets drift of his attitude it could hurt him. Coaches make descisions based on many factors and if he redshirts that is the coaches option. Many great players are redshirted. I looked at my son's new team roster and some of the best players had been RS. 11 out of 38 players were at one time RS. Some for med reasons but some for non med reasons.
Tell him to work hard/smart and he could end up playing. I see lots of guys with great falls and get RS. We as parents are looking for the things that make us feel our sons belong on the team but some times the numbers just don't add up. RS can be a very good thing but disappointing for a guy who wants to play.
MN-MomMN-MomHSBaseballWeb Owner
"RS can be a very good thing but disappointing for a guy who wants to play."

I will second that, as the parent of a 20-yr-old "late bloomer" RHP who is now in his junior year of college.

Looking back, I understand that he was not ready yet to pitch successfully at the college level in his freshman year (pitched about 10 game innings, had a few good relief appearances and some not so good). It would have benefited him to be in a college program where he would redshirt his first year while practicing with the team and receiving college-level coaching, though I'm sure that would have been disappointing to him. As it stands now, he may end up taking a medical redshirt this year, and while an injury is not a happy reason to take a year out of competition, I think that if he recovers on schedule, it may be a good thing for him - he may be better prepared, better developed, to make a significant contribution to his team in his 4th and 5th years of college, than in his 3rd and 4th.

Best wishes to your son, he sounds like he has a lot of potential. A redshirt year can be very disappointing to the player, but CAN be beneficial in the long run.
06catcherdad06catcherdad1,000+ posts
Redshirting can be a very good option for a player who needs to work on his game. I would caution you to completely understand the transfer requirements for the three year juco transfer vs. a two year student who is transferring. He'll have to complete a lot more units in order to transfer and play sports as a three year juco student, but it is done by many.

Another thing to consider is that if he's redshirting at one of the top baseball schools here, he may be able to transfer to a school with a lower profile team and make the team there. I don't encourage this, but it is an option that some take. I believe that redshirting has more benefits for a student-athlete than team shopping.
L LOW337100+ posts
Transferring from JUCO after three years? As the above post states...Make sure you understand the "40/60/80 satisfactory progress" rule.....After your third year (during your fouth yr of school) but prior to competition in the spring a student/athlete (baseball player) must have 80% of A DEGREE COMPLETE.....I wouldn't recommend anyone redshirt at a JUCO AND plan on being there 3 yrs.....Virtually IMPOSSIBLE to complete 80% of a four year degree while never taking a single 300 level class.......It may be possible but VERY VERY difficult to accomplish......

If one would chose to do this, I would certainly make sure I could meet the requirement of satifactory progress.....

Just food for thought.....It had been discussed before and the rule isn't so new anymore.....so I feel many more people are aware of it....and I would certainly HOPE that the JUCO coaches are aware of it......
L lafmom5,000+ posts
Beepers, My son transitioned to pitching his freshman year at a JUCO from being an OF in HS. He was there as a scholarship player, had a good fall, but when he felt like he wouldn't get enough innings in the spring to truly improve and to use a year of eligibility, he requested to RS. It was a wonderful thing IMO. He got to continue the instruction, got a year of classes out of the way (Dean's list by the way), and used the experience of that year to help define where and what he wanted to do as far as college in the future.

What he decided to do was to go ahead and transfer after this first year to a four year. I will preface that by saying he felt like the program where he was wasn't a great fit for him. He was a qualifier out of HS, so NCAA was an option. This particular JUCO did often RS kids d/t a large roster. As the others have said, to actually stay at a JUCO for three years could mean academic suicide. There are reasons that it can work for some, but very few.

Your son should focus on improving in his new role, maintaining good grades, and learning as much as he can about college baseball.

He may understand come spring that he has learned many valuable lessons that will serve him well there a second year. I would caution him to not share he plans on leaving after the second year, but again to stay for a third typically doesn't make a lot of sense as it will limit his options drastically in transferring.

Please PM me if there's any ideas you'd like to brainstorm. Transferring from JUCOs can be a bit complicated and when you throw in a RS year, the picture becomes a little more so.
R rbinaz500+ posts
quote:
After your third year (during your fouth yr of school) but prior to competition in the spring a student/athlete (baseball player) must have 80% of A DEGREE COMPLETE


Actually after year 3 you need 60%...80% after year 4
The points made here are valid. Trying to transfer to a D1 after 3 years at a JUCO is very tough. Essentially, he'll need to transfer approximately 72 semester hours that apply in his specific degree program.....very difficult.
06catcherdad06catcherdad1,000+ posts
Another option, though it doesn't apply to very many, is Gray Shirting. To Gray Shirt, all you do it take less than 12 semester units. You're essentially going part-time and the clock hasn't started running at all. My son is doing this now due to his Tommy John surgery, we specifically didn't want him to red shirt and be a 3 year juco transfer. In essense, he'll enroll full time next fall, and be treated as if he is a class of 2007 enrollee, but he'll have about 18 units already completed.

It's something to consider in certain cases.
beepers40beepers40100+ posts
As far as the question of tranferring goes, son was not a qualifier out of high school, which puts a number of strictures on him now. Son has now learned the meaning of the phrase "No such thing as a free lunch." In order for him to tranfer to a four-year school he has to complete his associate's degree requirements, not just earn units toward his bachelor's degree. His coach requires all players to take 12 units of academic work each semester, in addition to whatever units they get for playing ball, whether the student redshirts or not. So my son will have completed 48 units, as well as having finished his AS degree requirements, after his second year, which would be his freshman year. Technically he would be eligible to transfer then. But more likely he will take upper division courses at the nearby Cal State campus in his third year. The way I see it, it just gives him more time to show recruiting coaches that he has turned himself around academically. No matter what happens baseball-wise, I have to say a big "God Bless You" to that coach, who truly puts academics and baseball on equal footing. His approach has worked wonders on my son already. What goes on between the coach and my son is their own businss but I have no doubt that that coach's decision to redshirt my son is as much a challenge to him to demonstrate his commitment academically as it is a baseball practicality. I respect that approach tremendously.
04and1004and10100+ posts
My son was offered a redshirt at his JC after the fall but he elected to transfer at semester in order to get playing time. Worked out for him as got significant PT at a diffrent JC and then earned a scholarship at a DI school and went ahead and transfered after his freshman year. He is now a junior in school and baseball and is enjoying both.

The main issue we had was to insure all courses would transfer from two different JC's to the 4 year school. If your son goes 3 years at the JC or two years at the JC and then takes courses at a local 4 year school make sure all courses will transfer. Very important to research the possible 4 year schools that are on your list and check with the admissions to make sure the courses match up. You would hate after 3 years to still have two or more years worth of school to get a degree due to losing hours that don't transfer.
C cbg500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
I am a believer in 5 year college programs for all athletes with the frosh year being a "redshirt" year---this gives the 17 year old a chance to mature physically, adapt to being away at college and get 30 plus credits out of the way


TRhit,

You are "dead red" correct in that all freshmen should not be eligible to play varisty. Let them practice, get their academics squared away, and learn how to navigate the social scene of college life. IMO, the major reason for student/athletes transfering is because they don't get to play their freshmen season. What they need to understand is that most freshmen don't play and that if they will show some patience they will probably get to play and play alot. Just look at how many student/athletes transfer, flunk out, get kicked out, leave to be with Miss Wonderful, etc... if you hang around and do the things that the coaches want you will probably play in the end. Both kids and parents must learn some patience.
Last edited by cbg
CollegeParentNoMoreCollegeParentNoMore1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by cbg:
]

....... IMO, the major reason for student/athletes transfering is because they don't get to play their freshmen season. What they need to understand is that most freshmen don't play and that if they will show some patience they will probably get to play and play alot. Just look at how many student/athletes transfer, flunk out, get kicked out, leave to be with Miss Wonderful, etc... if you hang around and do the things that the coaches want you will probably play in the end. Both kids and parents must learn some patience.


From what I have seen with my son's college and summer team, the most significant reason for lower classman transfering appears to be personality conflicts with the head coach and/or not liking the school (i.e. not a good fit). The upper classmen seem to be the guys more likely to transfer for playing time.
C cbg500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CollegeParent:
quote:
Originally posted by cbg:
]

....... IMO, the major reason for student/athletes transfering is because they don't get to play their freshmen season. What they need to understand is that most freshmen don't play and that if they will show some patience they will probably get to play and play alot. Just look at how many student/athletes transfer, flunk out, get kicked out, leave to be with Miss Wonderful, etc... if you hang around and do the things that the coaches want you will probably play in the end. Both kids and parents must learn some patience.


From what I have seen with my son's college and summer team, the most significant reason for lower classman transfering appears to be personality conflicts with the head coach and/or not liking the school (i.e. not a good fit). The upper classmen seem to be the guys more likely to transfer for playing time.


As a former assistant coach, I can tell you that 95% of the transfers were due to little or no playing time. If the freshmen get to play, then mom & dad, son, grandparents, etc... are all happy. When they play you have few if any conflicts with the coach and you don't even pay attention to the school being a good fit or bad fit.

In today's society people get what they want now or they leave for another situation that may or may not be better.
Last edited by cbg

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