Relative performance of Radar Guns

Well i think a juggs reading comes from the hand (the peak velocity point). A stalkers reading is when the ball crosses the plate, which will be slower because the ball slows down from the time is leaves the pitchers hand to the time it hits the cathcers mitt. I think a stalker also has a peak mode which displays the peak MPH of the pitch. Not sure about the other.

Keep in mind that if the player is not throwing strikes and getting batters out it matters not which gun is being used.

Does PG use Stalker at plate or peak mode reading when noting a pitchers velocity?

MT,

Peak Mode.

If you don't want to spend $1K on a Stalker, then the new Speedtrac X maybe a good option for you. I've used the Bushnells before, and they are not very good. Lot's of false/ghost readings.

The new Speedtrac X is much better than the older Speedtrac/Speedchek units. Still get occasional ghost readings (especially when there is some RF noise around), but is about the best you can get for around $150. Plus it has the readout which is great for immediate feedback to the thrower.

Both Stalkers and Jugs read peak speed which occurs, of course, as the ball leaves the pitcher's hand. Stalker Sports cost about $900. Jugs about $100 less.

SpeedCheck type devices have a range of about 40 feet. They're not designed for scouting.

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Plus it has the readout which is great for immediate feedback to the thrower.

Yes, those are great for self training. You throw 50 balls against a fence with the radar behind it, it doesn't matter if you get a few ghost readings (which are often on the very low side and obvious).

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Does anyone have a basic idea of the relative merits and differences of these 3 guns?

The $1600 Stalker Pro range is about 400 feet. $900 Stalker Sport range is 300-350 feet, Jugs is about 250. Bushnell is maybe 75 feet, I believe. Last time I looked, EBAY was loaded with Bushnells for sale and very few Stalkers and Jugs.

I'm guessing that Stalker gives it guns to pros and D-1 programs, by the way. Good marketing. Every pro scout I've seen uses a Stalker. I've seen new Jugs used next to Stalkers and the reading are about the same. Jugs may be slightly smaller and lighter than the clunky-looking Stalkers.

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Originally posted by micdsguy:
Yes, those are great for self training. You throw 50 balls against a fence with the radar behind it, it doesn't matter if you get a few ghost readings (which are often on the very low side and obvious).

heh...yea..try telling that to your teenage son who just threw one as hard as he could, only to have it come up with a blank screen.

It can be very frustrating.

That's how we use the Speedtrac, just as a training tool. I think I would look pretty silly carrying one of those to his games.

mcd,

Good post, but one thing... Stalker does not give their guns to Pro and DIs. That is probably 80% of their business! That would make it very bad marketing because it's the majority of their customers.

They do offer very good pricing if you buy lots of them.

Scouts will use whatever is given to them.
Rental Cars, gas, meal money, Radar Guns, Anna Benson...........

cheers
Bear

I set my stalker on peak speed. When I gun with Jugs around sometimes mine is 1 mph slower and sometimes 1 mph faster. One hugh difference is the stalker gun will often measure exit speeds of the ball coming off the bat.

Two years ago I was gunning my son in a tournament and the read was 96 mph. The dads sitting behind me were impressed until I told them the ball the left fielder was picking up at the base of the left-center wall was 96 mph when it left the bat of the guy standing at second.

Furthermore, there are false or no reads with any gun. Also, the angle of the read is very important. You need to be pretty much behind the catcher. I see people gunning from 20 degree angles or more. That will cause two potential sources of error. 1. The angle of the ball to the plate causing a lower read. 2. The actual picking up of something other than peak speed.

My gun has a "Dad" mode that adds 5 mph automatically when my son is pitching. It also came with an excuse list when important people are watching me gun. 1. He threw yesterday. 2. His arm is sore. 3. The atmospheric pressure is getting in the way of accurate higher reads...

All radar guns, including those used by the police, are accurate within +/- 1 MPH. And yes the angle is very important, as is knowing when you are receiving ghost reads. You see, even those used by the police receive them as well.

10 degrees off line will reduce reading by only 1 mph. You can sit more off line if you just want to compare pitches and pitchers. Often it's hard to get directly behind the catcher.

Yeah, I laugh when I see a dad using a gun from the side.
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Outgoing speed from the bat won't read that high unless the ball goes out toward center. Usually the incoming fastball will read higher.

Hey Guys , how can you get a good reading from a Bushnell radar gun then? Behind the catcher? % feet directly behind him like umpire distance?

To get the most precise reading any gun has to be fairly in line with the ball's flight, either behind the catcher or behind the pitcher. It doesn't matter whether the ball is moving toward or away from the gun.

Obviously, in real pitching situations the gun will be behind the the catcher and usually in the stands safely behind the backstop (a metal fence doesn't affect the speed reading; the range MIGHT be reduced slightly tho).

A jugs/stalker gun can be used to about 250-400 feet from the pitcher...plenty of range for HS or College situations.

Bushnells are rated to about 75 feet. In games, a gun behind the backstop would pick up the ball somewhere between the pitcher and the catcher. If the gun were directly behind the catcher, his body might block some readings.

Therefore the Bushnell isn't ideal. Balls slow about 1 mph per every 8 feet. If you're sitting 50 feet behind the catcher, your reading would be reduced several by about 4 mph.

quote:

Originally posted by baseballbum:
Hey Guys , how can you get a good reading from a Bushnell radar gun then? Behind the catcher? % feet directly behind him like umpire distance?

I would think for any radar gun this would be the best position.

Just an update to the Speedtrac X post I made earlier, I can't for the life of me get this thing to give a reading when using weighted balls. Very strange (and frustrating). The old Speedtrac would work fairly well with these balls, but not this new one. I've asked the manufacturer what can be done, but haven't got a reply yet. Hopefully soon.

Another factor affecting gun accuracy is sampling rate. Stalkers send out about 25 radar pulses a second. (like sonar "pings" you hear in submarine movies) That way the ball is picked up within a few feet maximum out of the pitcher's hand.

Cheaper guns have slower sampling rates so a ball MAY have slowed one (rarely two) mph before radar gets the reading.

Sampling error "averages out" over many pitches and shouldn't be a big concern. High readings tend to be accurate; low ones may be bogus (something every dad knows!)

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I can't for the life of me get this thing to give a reading when using weighted balls. Very strange (and frustrating). The old Speedtrac would work fairly well with these

That is odd. What is the weighted ball made of? Old Speedchex would pick up any material...even, at times, flying insects within a few feet.

Why in the world would you want to gun a weighted ball, btw?

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Originally posted by micdsguy:

quote:

I can't for the life of me get this thing to give a reading when using weighted balls. Very strange (and frustrating). The old Speedtrac would work fairly well with these

That is odd. What is the weight ball made of? Old Speedchex would pick up any material...even, at times, flying insects within a few feet.

Why in the world would you want to gun a weighted ball, btw?

It's basically just a regular baseball that is a few onces heavier or lighter than a regulation baseball. They are colored differently (baseed upon their weight). I've tried every weight from 7 to 12 ounces. None of them read.

We use them for training to make sure we hit our "target velocity" (feedback) when training with the weighted balls.

I'd think they'd use some metal core to get the extra weight. But that would make them even more reflective than a normal baseball. I've tested guns on everything from a car (picks them up very far away) to a running human.

Tried a gun from the passenger seat of my car once on the highway. Clocked oncoming vehicles with a speed differential of up to 145 mph!

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Just thought weight balls PLUS radar could be a dangerous combination Alone, each is controversial.