Removing the pitcher after two visits

quote:

Originally posted by mennaj:
After the coach has made a second visit in the same inning to the mound he must remove the pitcher from the mound according to the official baeball rules. If the removed pitcher is put into a defensive position is he then allowed to return to the mount to pitch later in the game. I say no. Since he was removed on the second visit he would not be allowed to pitch again , but if he was removed from the mound on the first visit I think he could pitch again in the game. Am I correct or not

For OBR you are correct. If on the first visit, the pitcher is removed and moved to a defensive position he may return once that inningor at any time later in the game. On the second visit he is done as a pitcher.
HS rules are different but I won't get into that unless you need the clarification.

quote:

For OBR you are correct. If on the first visit, the pitcher is removed and moved to a defensive position he may return once that inningor at any time later in the game. On the second visit he is done as a pitcher.

In strict OBR, on the second visit in the same inning, he is done for the game. He heads to the showers, period, no other participation is possible. Most recreational leagues modify this rule to allow the pitcher to go to another position.

where did you find this ruling in the OBR

8.06 B OBR tells us that a second trip to the same pitcher in the same inning will cause for his automatic removal. In other words, he cannot move to another position on the field as rule 3.03 allows if it were the first visit.

How does this compare to Little League rules?

AK:

I am probably speaking out of line here because I have not been involved with LL baseball for over 6 years now, however, I do believe that a starting pitcher was permitted to re-enter the game as a pitcher (if removed on first visit)as per the OBR as long as the starting pitcher remained on the field in another position.

The rule is OBR. I point out this fact because in our tournament baseball we allow the starting pitcher to re-enter the game as a pitcher as long as he maintains a position on the field. This becomes an important piece of knowledge because we have EH rules and allow teams to bat their lineups. Putting the pitcher in one of the EH spots is NOT a position on the field and at certain times we have to address this with a few coaches who don't understand the rule.

Hopefully someone with more LL experience can answer my question. I tried to find a LL book online but was unable to do so.

LL has a three free visits per game with a required removal on the fourth visit. As long as it doesn't exceed the three visit you may move to a position and return the pitcher once an inning. This is for thirteen and above. Twelve and below are not allowed to return at all.
As noted above in strict OBR the pitcher must leave the game but I have never worked a non-pro league that required it.

Michael,

Good explanation and thanks for helping me out with the LL rules.

See you in October at the complex?

I know this is slightly off topic but interesting nonetheless. In a recent 18U tournament in Georgia a head coach made 1 visit to the mound as his pitcher was tiring. A few pitches later he indicates to his catcher to go out and talk to the pitcher (obvious strategy as the reliever wasn't quite ready) and the home plate ump immediately signalled 2nd trip to the mound and ordered the reliever into the game. Has anyone every heard of this before?

This happens everyday in baseball.

Did the head coach actually go up and talk to the catcher or just yell it out?

It seems that the umpire could be misinterpreting rule 8.06 (d) approaches and talks to a fielder AND such fielder confers with the pitcher before a pitch, play, or appeal. (my emphasis)

With not being there, that is tough to comment on. Maybe you can shed some light as to whether or not the catcher and coach approached each other.

As a side note, I have only ever, in 11 years, charged a coach with a conference twice. In both situations, it was because he delayed the game, called time and summoned the catcher over to the fence and then immediately the catcher went out to speak with the pitcher.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeremy Byrd:
Michael,

Good explanation and thanks for helping me out with the LL rules.

See you in October at the complex?

I'm confused, what complex.

Jeremy, the coach never left the dugout a second time. He merely used his hand to indicate "go talk to the pitcher" as we see all the time.

If that is what happened then they were wrong. A visit requires the manager to actually enter the field.

quote:

If that is what happened then they were wrong. A visit requires the manager to actually enter the field.

You're half right. The umpire blew the call - true.

But you're wrong about the manager. A visit does not necessarily require the manager to enter the field. As has been pointed out, if the manager calls the catcher over to the dugout and then the catcher goes to the pitcher, that is a visit. Additionally, if the manager makes a pitching change, that's a visit per pro interpretation.

Situation:

The manager has made one visit to the pitcher and after another hit decides that he wants to pull the pitcher but wants him to stay in the game.

Tough luck. There is no way to move the pitcher to right field. Even if he shouts from the bench to exchange places with the right fielder, you have a "visit" and he must leave the game. In leagues that allow the pitcher to remain in the game, this is still a second "visit" and he may not return to pitch in that game.