Report: Phillies turn unsigned draft pick in to NCAA for using an agent

I thought they were only considered "advisors" until they actually signed?

This is so wrong on so many levels.

First, the NCAA lost a court case on this exact question back in 2009. Andrew Oliver was denied eligibility for the same reason, he sued in Ohio state court and won. The court said this was an improper regulation of attorney representation, and that the rule was not regularly enforced.

What did the NCAA do? They took the position that the court decision applies only to Ohio, and they were free to enforce the rule everywhere else. What jacka**es.

I have no idea what the Phillies are thinking by ratting out Wetzler. Unless they just want all their draftees to forgo representation. 

I happen to know Wetzler; he went to my son's rival high school, so I saw him many times. This kid is a legit talent. Hard throwing lefty, very polished even in HS, and mentally tough as nails. 

I'm so sick of the NCAA's shenanigans. 

To potentially cost this kid his final college year and possibly hurt him for this year's draft by sitting out is so wrong.

Advising cannot include talking to an MLB team for you.

http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/p...ents_vs_advisors.htm

What a shame. So much political BS with spots.

What makes no sense to me is what is the magic about an adviser negotiating directly with a MLB team vs. the player or parent doing that negotiation? Why does having legal representation in that negotiation constitute a violation of amateur status?

It doesn't. This is simply the NCAA trying to keep the professionals out of the negotiating process, so the player is at a disadvantage. In their twisted mind, this somehow discourages or results in fewer junior year signings.

That is all it is about. Heartwarming, isn't it, the NCAA's commitment to the player/athlete?

http://twitter.com/aaronfitt/s...s/436583092216922114

http://twitter.com/aaronfitt/s...s/436583709261959168

wow read those tweets. This is going to be interesting story. My son faced Ben when they played OSU. Really sad he may lose his senior year.

There's nothing to worry about. Remember the ads that ran ad nauseum during the football bowl season? "The NCAA, looking out for student athletes."

There's nothing to worry about. Remember the ads that ran ad nauseum during the football bowl season? "The NCAA, looking out for student athletes."

Wonder if the Phillies have any complaints about the guys who actually signed with them! Sounds like a low handed thing to do to kids who didn't sign. But the Phillies management have turned into an embarrassment under Amaro. The NCAA has been a joke for years.

I agree.  The NCAA should go.  They are complete idiots.  Outdated rules.  No common sense.  Time for the colleges to step up and say we're out of here. 

In reading the article, there is a lot of blame to go around.  The NCAA wants to make an example of a well known player.  The Phillies are just idiots.  Wetzler played the "representation game" like most players at his level do, and is accused of wrong doing.  Which is like singling someone out driving 67mph in a 65mph zone on I-95 where everyone else drives 80mph.   Yes, it is against the rules but you can't be serious with these accusations?  Really?.  

It will be interesting to see how they spin this decision.  No doubt their decision will begin with the following statement...."In the best interest of our student-athletes".....then will be a brief pause as everyone rolls their eyes.  I'm really beginning to think the NCAA may be the best organized scam ever devised.   It is brilliant.  They have a team of lawyers who enforce policy on "workers" they have indirect authority over.  They sign colleges and conferences up for media rights, and distribute the basketball money between their clients.  It is a low risk high reward business venture.  Brilliant!

Keith Law has an interesting take on this - he commented that the NCAA is selectively going after kids who come from less well off families - so they can't afford to sue the NCAA.

As he put it on Twitter: 

I wish the NCAA had tried this petty no-agent nonsense with Mark Appel, just to see his lawyer father mop the courtroom floor with them.

and in chat yesterday:

Matt (NJ)

If your Ben Wetzler, don't you just sue the NCAA for interfering with your right to counsel? Andy Oliver won on those grounds a few years back, though the NCAA just bought him out so they could keep ensuring players do have access to advocates when they bargain with multi-billion dollar corporations...

Klaw

Yes, but that requires money. Notice that the NCAA doesn't go after players from wealthy families. That's not a coincidence.

I have no way of validating what Keith is saying - but I certainly wouldn't put it past the NCAA. And, if true, makes the NCAA even worse in my mind (which basically puts them somewhere below the gutter)

When football scholarships went from 4 year full rides to one year "renewable", that uncovered the absolute truth of the NCAA-they couldn't care less about the welfare of the athletes .Try to think of one occasion when the NCAA did something to actually help athletes....

The NCAA took a blow this week when the Ed OBannon lawsuit over licensing issues, royalties and income was allowed to proceed to trial against the NCAA.

Here was the NCAA response:

"Donald Remy, the NCAA's chief legal officer, was in attendance but did not comment afterward. The organization released a statement on his behalf.

"We believe strongly in the merits of our case and will continue to defend the interests of the hundreds of thousands of student-athletes not recognized by the plaintiffs," said Remy. "For them and for all student-athletes, the current model of college sports provides opportunities for success during college and beyond."

I guess the NCAA is out to protect the large population of student-athletes, just not all of them, and especially not the ones who make the NCAA rich or who have a chance to become somewhat wealthy through a bonus signed with MLB. How does this NCAA position with Wetzler provide "opportunities for success in college and beyond?"  Seems to me it blocks both?

Reading between the lines, is the NCAA saying if they lose on the O'Bannon type issues, the revenue from football and basketball will diminish in ways which will adversely impact non-revenue sports...like baseball?

This thing confuses and bothers me. Some of the comments just don't make sense.  I find it hard to believe that "An American League Scouting Director" said he had never negotiated with any player, in any round, with out legal representation.

First of all, that would have to be a first year Scouting Director, because that just can't possibly be true.

And it has always been one of my pet peeves hearing a report that lists a comment made by someone unknown.  (American League Scouting Director, National League Scout, DI College Coach, etc.)  Why not just write that a Citizen of the United States said something.  Once in awhile our own writers do he same thing, it bothers me.

One more thing... Wouldn't it be interesting to know the chain of events.  Who told what to who?  Seems as though the Phillies didn't report this to the public. If so, that would have been stupid.  Did the NCAA report that the Phillies turned in the report to them? If swhy that seems stupid on their part.  Chances are this was all reported by the player's agent that actually broke the NCAA rule. Some might say that would have been smart on their part.

Agents are supposed to know the rules when it comes to direct contact with the club during negotiations.  It simply means the agent/advisor can advise the family/player, but can't directly negotiate face to face on behalf of the drafted player.  Sure it is done a lot, usually with early draft picks when the most money is involved.  In most of these cases the player knows he is going to sign so the NCAA rules don't pertain.

So once again, here we go... The player gets punished because of mistakes made by people who want something.  Sure, the NCAA wants to maintain their power. The Phillies  want the player in their system and don't want an unsigned draft pick.  They did the Signability and felt sure they could sign the player.  The agent, wants to make the most money possible for the player and himself (nothing wrong with that)

In the end, everyone involved loses something.

The NCAA surely can't enjoy these cases where everyone seems to become anti NCAA

The Phillies can't possibly enjoy being mentioned in this and hearing the backlash.

The agent sure won't benefit because of all this.

And the player can't play baseball at the college he attends until the NCAA allows it.

No doubt, there is something wrong with the system!  Why not just fix it and concentrate on more important things?  Having someone negotiate on your behalf should never result in any penalty.  Why do the players/family with no experience deserve punishment when they receive help when making very important decisions. And even of the agent doesn't negotiate on behalf of the player, he is still telling them what do asay and what to do.  Why not get rid of the rule and quit playing stupid games that end up in court for no reason.  

I did not realize the Phillies were such a low class organization.

I find this interesting, I would like to hear the real story. This is all about who to trust when you have an advisor/agent. All are not equal.

A player going through the draft fully knows the rules.  I have an issue if he broke the rules and allowed someone to speak on his behalf. I also have a problem if he told the team that he would sign and he took back his word knowing what the implications are for a team when an early draft doesn't sign (bad rule).

I have a problem that there were two players that were turned into the NCAA that were drafted by the same team, seems strange.   If there were rules broken,  then it has to be addressed, no matter how archaic they are. If it was broken by the agent who the player (s) trusted then they should not be punished. I would like to know if the team made a promise and went back on their word.

Didn't read all the responses, so sorry if its been covered already...

• Rules?  If they're there, whether stupid or not, you gotta follow 'em.  I'm not one of those who thinks the 'tattle-taler' is the criminal.
• Uneven enforcement?  Yeah, its there.  Its all over.  I've got some situations in mind that I believe are FAR MORE egregious than this…by 100 miles.  Wish the NCAA would pull their head out of the sand.
• This rule?  Stupid.  Everything…nearly everything is stacked 'against' the student athlete.  What the heck does the NCAA care if a player has good representation in a negotiation - whether they make an agreement or not?  GEEZ!  I read these rules when we went through them - and we followed them.  But for 'crying out loud!!' - why the heck wouldn't the NCAA put the "student athlete" first and let him/her have the very best representation possible?  Aaargh!
• But the rule - its there.   Its not immoral - its just stupid.  Therefore, you gotta follow it.  If the Phillies ratted - I don't care…at all.  Player/agent (if they did) shoulda stuck to the rule.  It wasn't unknown.  No sympathy  from me.

Just the way I see it.

I agree with all of the above except: I DO think the rule is immoral. It intentionally seeks to keep the player at a disadvantage in negotiations, for no apparent reason other than to benefit NCAA institutions by discouraging athletes from turning pro. 

I read tonight the NCAA has suspended Wetzler for 11 games.

20% of his season. He could break a all time record at OSU.OSU offered 10% from their own compliance but NCAA said 20.

Another contrived decision: carefully calibrated to be short enough to make a court case not worthwhile, long enough to make it appear tough. And over before conference play starts. I'm sure Wetzler will accept it, move on.

If the Phillies thought it was so bad to have a negotiator, why didn't they say something in the beginning of the negotiations?  They want to play the moral police only when they didn't get what they want.  Chumps...

They didn't say anything because what happened is done all of the time behind the scenes, with every team. The teams don't care, they only care if you sign. If you guys think this is just something that happens occasionally you are wrong.  FWIW, most juniors in college expecting to get drafted usually have made up their minds they are going to sign, despite the dollars or rounds, its a non issue who speaks to who (see PG reference in his post about this). This is where choosing an agent becomes important.

 IMO, something went south along the way. The team, the agent, the draftee all players in this situation. The one most at risk usually suffers.

I still would like to know all of the details!

If he had an agent talking to the team, he should have signed.  It shouldn't be about the money at this point, but rather about starting your pro career. The longer you put if off, the older you get, and from my experience that can work against you.

Having gone through this process, it is a really tough situation. It's hard to place blame on the NCAA. But they need to figure out something that can work for all parties

BA has a reference to the NCAA release and the agreed statement of facts.

Wexler did all the negotiations himself.  The issue and violation of the NCAA no agent rule occurred because the person from whom he sought advice was present while Wexler did the negotiations.

There is nothing to suggest the "agent" said anything to the Phillies on behalf of Wexler or to Wexler while he did the negotiations.

The scope of the rule is summarized this way:

 “NCAA rules allow a baseball student-athlete to receive advice from a lawyer or agent regarding a proposed professional sports contract. However, if the student-athlete is considering returning to an NCAA school, that advisor may not negotiate on behalf of a student-athlete or be present during discussions of a contract offer, including phone calls, email or in-person conversations.”

Thanks. Then the rule was broken and the NCAA couldn't not turn away from the situation.

But what I meant was what made the Phillies turn the player in, if they in fact did.

The BA article references information from OSU as the Phillies being the source for drafted players who did not sign:

"The NCAA began investigating Wetzler in November after the Phillies—who drafted him in the fifth round last June—reported to the NCAA that he and sixth-rounder Jason Monda of Washington State violated the “no agent” rule. Monda was cleared by the NCAA last week, just before the start of the season. Oregon State vice president for university relations and marketing Steve Clark, the university’s point man for this case with the NCAA, told Baseball America on Friday, “Our understanding is that the Phillies reported it. You have to ask the Phillies organization why—and I’d be interested to know what they’d say.” He said he was not at liberty to discuss the evidence presented in the case."

I just read that, as well as the part about potential draftees not wanting to speak to them. Sounds like they cut their nose to spite their face.

Will be interesting to see if they defend their actions.

For some reason I can't paste the link.

The point I was trying to make is that this happens all the time, and the only reason the Phillies turned him in was they got left at the altar.  Complete horsepoo in my opinion.

The Phillies are idiot back stabbing morons. They just signed 57 year old Bobby Abreu. The rule is horrible and is used by the NCAA and MLB to cheat 18-21 year olds out of serious money and needs to be challenged in federal court

Here's what the 2014 Baseball Prospectus has to say about the Phillies:

"So poorly is this team managed that any attempt to describe what might happen next must be informed by the enormity of the front office's blunders to date."

Looks like they nailed it.

I understand it doesn't look good for the Phillies.  However, wouldn't we want to know exactly what took place.  I mean was it front office management, an area scout or a bird dog, that reported this.  Did the NCAA claim the Phillies informed them?  The reports I read say the college notified the NCAA of the violation and the college handed out a self imposed penalty.  Then the NCAA got involved.

Whatever happened, once again it is only the player who loses. Why aren't we trying to help these young people rather than punishing them because of a rule that makes no sense.

Although most would agree that all the details of this case---the agent's role or lack thereof, the club's accountability, a selective enforcement of NCAA rules, whether or not the player reneged on a previous understanding regarding his signability, etc.---still need to be dissected, the incident reinforces the fact that the baseball industry is not for the faint of heart nor for the uninformed, and many families may find that out the hard way. 

Agents, scouts, front offices, coaches, the NCAA, etc., are involved with the "business of baseball" every single day, year after year---parents and players are not.  This is not to excuse a family for breaking its word, or for failing to understand the potential consequences of pushing the envelope when choosing which rules to abide by.  But families are the least prepared of everyone involved in the baseball journey (college recruiting or the MLB draft), and even those who may conduct the due diligence to educate themselves about what lies ahead cannot possibly understand, entirely on their own, all the nuances and peculiarities that may transpire---such as some ambiguously written rules being circumvented time and time again, and then suddenly imposed on a handful of players. 

As many of us know, it's very easy to lower your guard in this process while placing your trust in others who lead you to believe, one way or another, that they have your best interests at heart.  This can perhaps happen through a family's growing relationship with the advisor/agent...the expectations that families may have regarding what these folks are suppose to do, think about, or act upon on behalf of the player can be dramatically different than the actual reality.  Or the family can become a bit too naïve or relaxed while building a dialogue with a certain club, and overlook the fact that the organization is looking for the best talent at the least amount of money.  Couple these scenarios with the enormous hype that can develop, the high stakes involved, the NCAA, the booming baseball industry itself and all that entails for families, etc., and you realize that a potential minefield exists.  But who's the watchdog? 

Please remember...it's a business and becoming more so at many levels of the game.  Some wonderful, caring, and honest people shine in this business, and many rewards are possible for the talented student-athlete, college and/or pro ball, no  question about it.  But the baseball experience may not, in several respects, be getting any easier for families to navigate, manage, or understand...there may be a few wolves in sheep's clothing out there.  Once again..learn all you can, probe, ask questions, document if needed, be very careful who you trust, listen to your brains and guts as much, if not more, as you listen to your hearts.  You get one shot at this...make it count.