How would you suggest a coach rehab his reputation?
As a first year coach, I gained a rep. Last two years I worked hard on getting rid of it. What things tell you a coach is serious about fixing this problem?
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First question.......what kind of reputation?.......being hard on umpires?.....argumentative?..........
its a good question, and reps can be repaired, on both sides....
its a good question, and reps can be repaired, on both sides....
In our area we have a mandatory rules meeting prior to the start of the season. Coaches attend this meeting where the new NFHS rules interpretations are reviewed.
If I was a coach who was trying to repair a strained relationship with an umpire or umpires. I would do it the old fashioned way....man to man.......off the field.......offer a handshake......admit things got off on a bad start, and that your trying to get things started off fresh this year.
Then follow through......actions speak louder than words. Umpires talk and if your sincere it will get around...
One thing not to do, dont wait until the season and try to do it prior to your game.......It will only be seen poorly.......
good luck.........this is a good start.
If I was a coach who was trying to repair a strained relationship with an umpire or umpires. I would do it the old fashioned way....man to man.......off the field.......offer a handshake......admit things got off on a bad start, and that your trying to get things started off fresh this year.
Then follow through......actions speak louder than words. Umpires talk and if your sincere it will get around...
One thing not to do, dont wait until the season and try to do it prior to your game.......It will only be seen poorly.......
good luck.........this is a good start.
As a fellow member of the coaching fraternity maybe I can help with a few thoughts.
1. Project your image on the field and at practices as a person that you yourself would be happy to deal with at anytime, not one that is to be avoided.
2. Always keep in mind that coaches are necessary but not the focus of any organized team. It's always about the players, not the coaches.
3. Winning is fun and important to a degree, but exposure for the players and positive role modeling by the coaches takes precedent every time.
4. Being approachable, as well as even tempered also is a plus, it makes things much easier for everyone involved.
5. In 22 years I've yet to see a coach win a game, the players are what it's about, if you keep that in the front of your mind at all times, everything else will take care of itself.
6. First and foremost.... Have some fun! If you can have fun, the kids will love playing for you and show you some extraordinary feats on and off the field.
7. Always, Always, try to build confidence in your players, not tear it down, baseball is difficult enough, coaches are exactly that "coaches" of young men, not just of ballplayers. We can have a tremendous influence good or bad on a kid's maturing process and confidence. It's not important if we think a player is the best or not, it's important that HE thinks he is.
Frank Coit
Head Coach
San Diego Prospects Baseball Club
www.leaguelineup.com/sdprospects
www.leaguelineup.com/sdprospects
1. Project your image on the field and at practices as a person that you yourself would be happy to deal with at anytime, not one that is to be avoided.
2. Always keep in mind that coaches are necessary but not the focus of any organized team. It's always about the players, not the coaches.
3. Winning is fun and important to a degree, but exposure for the players and positive role modeling by the coaches takes precedent every time.
4. Being approachable, as well as even tempered also is a plus, it makes things much easier for everyone involved.
5. In 22 years I've yet to see a coach win a game, the players are what it's about, if you keep that in the front of your mind at all times, everything else will take care of itself.
6. First and foremost.... Have some fun! If you can have fun, the kids will love playing for you and show you some extraordinary feats on and off the field.
7. Always, Always, try to build confidence in your players, not tear it down, baseball is difficult enough, coaches are exactly that "coaches" of young men, not just of ballplayers. We can have a tremendous influence good or bad on a kid's maturing process and confidence. It's not important if we think a player is the best or not, it's important that HE thinks he is.
Frank Coit
Head Coach
San Diego Prospects Baseball Club
www.leaguelineup.com/sdprospects
www.leaguelineup.com/sdprospects
The reputation was for arguing too much. The program was coming off of a 4-16 season, and no one was taking us seriously. I tried to instill that their was an importance to doing things the right way. I also ran into some who stated, or implied that our games shouldn't be taken that seriously because we were a small school. (I actually had that said to me) The next year at the meeting with the umpires (I had to be out of town for a league meeting) my assistant heard several criticisms of my approach. I am very passionate about treating the game with respect, and I have really attempted to measure my words, and limit my arguments with umpires, but I am still running into some who can't let that first season go. Just a note, but I have never been thrown out of a game, cursed at an umpire, attempted to show anyone up. I always try to keep any disagreement with a call on a professional level, and try in everyway to show a respect for our officials.
Coaches work day in and day out with kids. They invest a lot of time scheduling practices working with their players riding buses getting home way after dinner time and depending on the situation sometimes put up with other stuff as well. An umpire shows up to do a game 2-3 hours he is out of there with money to boot. So the next time he hears a coach complain just listen.
Tiger3boy,
Just remember actions speak louder than words. As far as an ump telling you your games are not as important as a team with a better record or because you are a small school, you need to ask for that umpire to never be assigned to your games again and let the person in charge know why. There is no excuse for a comment like that but don't let some idiot bring you down to their level by arguing with them over it.
Just remember actions speak louder than words. As far as an ump telling you your games are not as important as a team with a better record or because you are a small school, you need to ask for that umpire to never be assigned to your games again and let the person in charge know why. There is no excuse for a comment like that but don't let some idiot bring you down to their level by arguing with them over it.
As a fellow coach I can hear you loud and clear--- to me being argumentative on the field can be valid and not wrong especially with the umpiring we run into in our region.
My first rule is the kids dont argue with the umpires not do the coaches. As MAnager I am third, in my eyes at least, on the list of importance with the players # 1 and the coaches # 2--- I always will back my players to the nth degree and they all know that as do their parents. If I get the thumb so be it ----my coaches will run the game well without me in the dugout.
The fact that you argue, some may say too much, is not bad thing in my eyes, if in fact the point you argue is valid.
Be what and who you are is my advice--- don't let others get to you because of who you are-- if you arent cussing them you can argue all you want as far as I am concerned--perhaps the complaints your assisitant heard were due to you making the umpires job a bit tougher than they like -- they are paid well so let them take the heat for a bit.
My kids still recall the game I handed the first base ump my glasses in a game we were winning 10-2 when he made a call that hurt the opposing team. Yea I got the thumb but the next day we had him for the title game and he was behind the plate-- he introduced himself to me very politely , shook hands and said "Have a good game Coach Rizzi"--- that day he called the best game he probably called in his life of umpiring-- I think I got my point across and the kids on both teams loved it--I think he might have even been wearing glasses the following day
Go for it-- don't let them change you
TRhit
My first rule is the kids dont argue with the umpires not do the coaches. As MAnager I am third, in my eyes at least, on the list of importance with the players # 1 and the coaches # 2--- I always will back my players to the nth degree and they all know that as do their parents. If I get the thumb so be it ----my coaches will run the game well without me in the dugout.
The fact that you argue, some may say too much, is not bad thing in my eyes, if in fact the point you argue is valid.
Be what and who you are is my advice--- don't let others get to you because of who you are-- if you arent cussing them you can argue all you want as far as I am concerned--perhaps the complaints your assisitant heard were due to you making the umpires job a bit tougher than they like -- they are paid well so let them take the heat for a bit.
My kids still recall the game I handed the first base ump my glasses in a game we were winning 10-2 when he made a call that hurt the opposing team. Yea I got the thumb but the next day we had him for the title game and he was behind the plate-- he introduced himself to me very politely , shook hands and said "Have a good game Coach Rizzi"--- that day he called the best game he probably called in his life of umpiring-- I think I got my point across and the kids on both teams loved it--I think he might have even been wearing glasses the following day
Go for it-- don't let them change you
TRhit
If an umpire is kicking calls as a coach you can not just sit back and lrt it go. Lets face it there are good umpires and bad ones. Can not let the bad ones get a free ride.
Argumentative coaches got a quick trip to the lockerroom or the team bus. If a coach wanted to DISCUSS a situation in a sportsmanlike manner, fine.
Bob
Bob
quote:
Originally posted by Will:
Coaches work day in and day out with kids. They invest a lot of time scheduling practices working with their players riding buses getting home way after dinner time and depending on the situation sometimes put up with other stuff as well. An umpire shows up to do a game 2-3 hours he is out of there with money to boot. So the next time he hears a coach complain just listen.
As a longtime umpire I take exception to the inference that the ump has little time invested in his advocation. I attend at least three or four clinics a year to improve or stay current. I teach at least that many local clinics to to do the same for the local guys. I work in the neighborhood of 150 games a year, while also observing other games for umpire evaluation.That doesn't include the time I spend on the internet dicussing rules and situations, including operating my own website. I assure you most umpires put in plenty of time in their pursuits. I hate when I hear coaches say we are only there for a couple of hours and don't really care.
Now on the other hand I also believe that if a coach has a legitimate reason to discuss a call then go for it. If he wants to know, on a judgement call, what we saw, then that's fine. If he believes we have kicked a rule then come on out and we will sort it out. If he wants to come out and rip and tear because he doesn't like the outcome of a call then he will have a short night.
We are beginning here to see the "tenor" of todays umpires--- they think that they run the game which they don't--they are there to be arbiters and nothing more--- many of todays umpires at the HS and college level think that they are above the game the game is about them not the players--- they also seem to have grown "rabbit ears" larger than the past generation of umpires.
Yes there are good ones but I have found them to be far and few between of late and when the good get paired with a bummer the bummer tries to take over because of his insecurity and that makes things even worse.
I applaud the good ones and when I am involved with tournaments or showcases I am in adminstrative control of I strive have the Umpire Coordinator eliminate the bummers before we start.
How good can an umpire be when he is the home plate umpire and he shows up sweating profusely for an 8:30 AM game , his first of the day, and he asks me "May I borrow your catchers mask? I forgot my mask." --boy does that set the tone for the game--as one of my players said to me---"Coach, this game is surely going to be fun with him behind the plate"
TRhit
Yes there are good ones but I have found them to be far and few between of late and when the good get paired with a bummer the bummer tries to take over because of his insecurity and that makes things even worse.
I applaud the good ones and when I am involved with tournaments or showcases I am in adminstrative control of I strive have the Umpire Coordinator eliminate the bummers before we start.
How good can an umpire be when he is the home plate umpire and he shows up sweating profusely for an 8:30 AM game , his first of the day, and he asks me "May I borrow your catchers mask? I forgot my mask." --boy does that set the tone for the game--as one of my players said to me---"Coach, this game is surely going to be fun with him behind the plate"
TRhit
I have found over the years that "discussing" a call I don't agree with works much better than "arguing" a call. Umpires are much more receptive to a calm discussion about the right or wrong of a call than to a volatile angry coach storming out at them.
The key to getting an umpire to maybe ask for help is to put an essence of doubt in his mind, screaming at him will only make him shut you out and possibly throw you out. Before you hit the field to talk to an umpire about a call, get your emotions in check and then "discuss" the call with him man to man, I think you'll find that your results are much more consistent.
I've had many instances over the years where I believe I got my way not because I intimidated or shouted a reversal or an asking for help out of an umpire, but rather I put the essence of doubt in his mind and he asked for help.
Many ways to approach an argument, only a few are successful ways.
www.leaguelineup.com/sdprospects
The key to getting an umpire to maybe ask for help is to put an essence of doubt in his mind, screaming at him will only make him shut you out and possibly throw you out. Before you hit the field to talk to an umpire about a call, get your emotions in check and then "discuss" the call with him man to man, I think you'll find that your results are much more consistent.
I've had many instances over the years where I believe I got my way not because I intimidated or shouted a reversal or an asking for help out of an umpire, but rather I put the essence of doubt in his mind and he asked for help.
Many ways to approach an argument, only a few are successful ways.
www.leaguelineup.com/sdprospects
Michael Taylor
I never said you do not work hard. I know a good number of umpires who take what they do very serious. As a coach I was very attatched to my players so the outcome of games both won and lost were very personal. What really annoyed me was those who were confrontational and had the quick hook. No common sense. In many cases escalating situations because of it. After coaching for close to 30 years I have seen many things. I can say that in tha last 7 0r 8 years I saw things that umpires did on the field that just astounded e. Yes there were missed calls. You will always have that but the attitudes of some of the newer ones was just poor. Years ago you could ask the plate umpire where the pitch was. He would say a little in a little out low high whatever. Now you ask some of them and they rip off their mask and threaten to run you from the game. I had one umpire tell me to get off "his" field when I approached him to discuss a play. got thrown out of a game once for telling one he had made a terrible call. After the game he said he "thought" I said he was "terrible". Oh that makes me feel good. I am suspended for a game and a report is sent to my AD and principal. Forget about the bad call. He was confrontational and had as Trhit said rabbit ears. No common sense.
I never said you do not work hard. I know a good number of umpires who take what they do very serious. As a coach I was very attatched to my players so the outcome of games both won and lost were very personal. What really annoyed me was those who were confrontational and had the quick hook. No common sense. In many cases escalating situations because of it. After coaching for close to 30 years I have seen many things. I can say that in tha last 7 0r 8 years I saw things that umpires did on the field that just astounded e. Yes there were missed calls. You will always have that but the attitudes of some of the newer ones was just poor. Years ago you could ask the plate umpire where the pitch was. He would say a little in a little out low high whatever. Now you ask some of them and they rip off their mask and threaten to run you from the game. I had one umpire tell me to get off "his" field when I approached him to discuss a play. got thrown out of a game once for telling one he had made a terrible call. After the game he said he "thought" I said he was "terrible". Oh that makes me feel good. I am suspended for a game and a report is sent to my AD and principal. Forget about the bad call. He was confrontational and had as Trhit said rabbit ears. No common sense.
Practice starts a week from tomorrow, and I am starting to get my mind it the right frame.
Thank you for all of the imput.
Thank you for all of the imput.
Will:
I'm sorry if I took your meaning wrong.I agree that many umps don't understand game management. One thing that I teach up and coming umps is the difference between each level is game mangement. I get kidded about my ejection rate. This is a rep that although true isn't near as high as everyone thinks. I believe that there is a time for ejections and there are times to keep a player or coach in the game. The mark of a good ump is knowing the difference. I work everything from 60 ft LL to D1 college and semi-pro. I can't tell you the number of times I've heard coaches tell their players to fly right because the PU will toss you. Because of this I have to toss very seldom. If I feel one of my guys is too confrontational or has rabbit ears I will call him down for it.
I'm sorry if I took your meaning wrong.I agree that many umps don't understand game management. One thing that I teach up and coming umps is the difference between each level is game mangement. I get kidded about my ejection rate. This is a rep that although true isn't near as high as everyone thinks. I believe that there is a time for ejections and there are times to keep a player or coach in the game. The mark of a good ump is knowing the difference. I work everything from 60 ft LL to D1 college and semi-pro. I can't tell you the number of times I've heard coaches tell their players to fly right because the PU will toss you. Because of this I have to toss very seldom. If I feel one of my guys is too confrontational or has rabbit ears I will call him down for it.
Michael Taylor
Somebody has to talk to these guys. It just seems when coaches make it an issue it falls on deaf ears. I am all for taking care of your own. The problem is the same guy who caused a problem winds up doing a playoff game.
Somebody has to talk to these guys. It just seems when coaches make it an issue it falls on deaf ears. I am all for taking care of your own. The problem is the same guy who caused a problem winds up doing a playoff game.
Remember, umpires belong to an association. If you have a VALID gripe about an umpire, have your AD write to the association and give the reason(s) for your complaint(s).
In EVERY game I worked, at every level, I informed the coaches at the pre-game conference how to make an appeal or complaint. "Wait until the play is over. Ask for time, and approach the umpire who made the call in a sportsmanlike manner. This is not pro ball. If you come charging out of the dugout, or from the coach's box, you will be ejected. We will discuss the call, but there will be no arguing. Understood? Good, let's have a good game."
When doing youth ball, I also reminded the managers/coaches that the kids were here to play, the fans were here to see them play, and NOT to see the managers/coaches do any posturing.
By the way, I never cared about a coach's or player's rep. Every game was handled on its own merit. There were no carry-overs, even in double headers.
Bob
In EVERY game I worked, at every level, I informed the coaches at the pre-game conference how to make an appeal or complaint. "Wait until the play is over. Ask for time, and approach the umpire who made the call in a sportsmanlike manner. This is not pro ball. If you come charging out of the dugout, or from the coach's box, you will be ejected. We will discuss the call, but there will be no arguing. Understood? Good, let's have a good game."
When doing youth ball, I also reminded the managers/coaches that the kids were here to play, the fans were here to see them play, and NOT to see the managers/coaches do any posturing.
By the way, I never cared about a coach's or player's rep. Every game was handled on its own merit. There were no carry-overs, even in double headers.
Bob
I agree with Bob about each game being a clean slate. I know certain coaches that have a tendency to be pains but They get the benefit of doubt each game.
I did a Juco double a few years ago where I sustained an appeal at second. The defensive manager rode me the rest of the game. I had to turn around and do the plate on the second. My partner and I talked while changing and I figured I was in for a long game. At the plate meeting the manager in question came out like nothing ever happened and I never heard another word the whole game. This is the way it should be handled on both sides. We both came with a clean slate and we had no problems.
I did a Juco double a few years ago where I sustained an appeal at second. The defensive manager rode me the rest of the game. I had to turn around and do the plate on the second. My partner and I talked while changing and I figured I was in for a long game. At the plate meeting the manager in question came out like nothing ever happened and I never heard another word the whole game. This is the way it should be handled on both sides. We both came with a clean slate and we had no problems.
Well said by both of you. This is exactly the way that I define being a professional. If I cannot seperate games, and treat each as a new experience, I can not ask an umpire or my players to do likewise.
Good topic Tiger3boy. Your willingness to start a new slate says to me that you have you identified an issue and would like to resolve, and put it behind you. Where did I get this idea, YOU said it in your post. Now, in your present relationship with umpires it may be politically incorrect to come out of the closet and publicly say "sorry I was out of line, let's start over". Unfortunatly you dug the hole your in and it may take a little time to get back in the good graces of the boys in blue. In the near future you may have to be very selective on why, where, and who you pick your wars with. Also, whether umpires admit it or not, they enjoy hearing the "good job" comments after a game. I'm not promoting "suking up", but a good word for a good job helps when trying to mend open wounds. It also opens the door to other topics of discussion. The revised good word about you will travel as fast as the bad word traveled. The only down side is, umpires have been gifted with trememdous selective memory, and once you're in their in the doghouse, it's much easier to go back. Wish you well.
quote:
Originally posted by rz1:
Good topic Tiger3boy. Your willingness to start a new slate says to me that you have you identified an issue and would like to resolve, and put it behind you. Where did I get this idea, YOU said it in your post. Now, in your present relationship with umpires it may be politically incorrect to come out of the closet and publicly say "sorry I was out of line, let's start over". Unfortunatly you dug the hole your in and it may take a little time to get back in the good graces of the boys in blue. In the near future you may have to be very selective on why, where, and who you pick your wars with. Also, whether umpires admit it or not, they enjoy hearing the "good job" comments after a game. I'm not promoting "suking up", but a good word for a good job helps when trying to mend open wounds. It also opens the door to other topics of discussion. The revised good word about you will travel as fast as the bad word traveled. The only down side is, umpires have been gifted with trememdous selective memory, and once you're in their in the doghouse, it's much easier to go back. Wish you well.
Since you paint ALL umpires with the same brush, umpires should consider ALL coaches are a big pain in the royal rump. Each umpire, and each coach should be treated as their own person.
I never carried anything over from one game to the next. I've tossed players and coaches, who came up to me before the next game to apologize. My reply was, "That was in the past, today's another day".
As for telling fellow umpires about certain coaches, NEVER. And I didn't want to be told, either. I didn't want to go into a game looking for things to be aware of. It would take me away from doing my job. The only thing I would warn about a coach was, "Make sure you know the rules well, because coach *** knows the book as well as we do".
Bob
Bluezebra,
My intent was not to paint a lable on anyone, and it's obvious I rubbed you the wrong way. The initial poster said they were talking about him at ump clinic about his approach. I'm really sorry for offending you, I thought like most team situations, the umps would talk between themselves on past situations, tendancies, or maybe opinions that comes with small talk.
I think there's a difference between looking for a things to be aware of and understanding background information. Background information does have to affect a call, but, it can assist you in understanding the cast of characters. I made a poor assumtion that umpires talked between themselves.
My intent was not to paint a lable on anyone, and it's obvious I rubbed you the wrong way. The initial poster said they were talking about him at ump clinic about his approach. I'm really sorry for offending you, I thought like most team situations, the umps would talk between themselves on past situations, tendancies, or maybe opinions that comes with small talk.
quote:
As for telling fellow umpires about certain coaches, NEVER. And I didn't want to be told, either. I didn't want to go into a game looking for things to be aware of.
I think there's a difference between looking for a things to be aware of and understanding background information. Background information does have to affect a call, but, it can assist you in understanding the cast of characters. I made a poor assumtion that umpires talked between themselves.
I really don't want to rub Bluezebra the wrong way, we live way too close to each other. It has been interesting to read the different post and follow the interplay. Even in the post you can sense a little rising blood pressure. Blue, do you know Billy Mortimore from Apple Valley?
quote:
Originally posted by Tiger3boy:
I really don't want to rub Bluezebra the wrong way, we live way too close to each other. It has been interesting to read the different post and follow the interplay. Even in the post you can sense a little rising blood pressure. Blue, do you know Billy Mortimore from Apple Valley?
The name doesn't sound familiar.
I only worried about women rubbing me the wrong way, if that was possible.
I'm going to contact you personally.
Bob
I was wondering because Billy is one of our Hitting Coach, and he is really sick. His only goal is to make it to opening day to see his son play one more time. (When his wife told me that you can imagine my reaction). He is a great baseball guy, Dad, and leader, and I thought you might have known him. I am at AVCS, ask for Rocky.
== Post deleted and member suspended. Please read the Board Manners page. Thanks! MN-Mom / Julie ==
== Post deleted and member suspended. Please read the Board Manners page. Thanks! MN-Mom / Julie ==
Wow you guys truly added something of value to this thread. What started out as something good and could possibly help others was turned into something pretty useless. I bet you guys live under a bridge and like to go trolling.
I didn't see what was posted but it must not have been good, but Julie was on top of it. Her deleting posts and suspending posters is not done lightly.
It wasn't good and very well deserved deletion and suspension. Thanks Julie - good job.
quote:Originally posted by bluezebra:
In EVERY game I worked, at every level, I informed the coaches at the pre-game conference how to make an appeal or complaint. "Wait until the play is over. Ask for time, and approach the umpire who made the call in a sportsmanlike manner. This is not pro ball. If you come charging out of the dugout, or from the coach's box, you will be ejected. We will discuss the call, but there will be no arguing. Understood? Good, let's have a good game."
This is totally inappropriate and establishes a very bad tone. The plate meeting is for the exchange of lineups and ground rules and nothing else.
why would someone dig up a 7 year old thread to post garbage......didnt see the posts, but Im sure Julie had vaild reasons for banning them....
quote:Originally posted by piaa_ump:
why would someone dig up a 7 year old thread to post garbage......didnt see the posts, but Im sure Julie had vaild reasons for banning them....
I read it. She did.