Rest after HS season before starting summer travel ball?

Did stay at a Holiday Inn...  

From a distance, generally, taking a full month is a bit too much... he would have to sort of ramp back up all over again.  In the past, a few weeks down time has helped some of my players who have just been a bit fatigued.

With that many innings, hopefully you have the longer recommended rest scheduled some time in the fall/winter.  Typically, "exposure" opportunities will keep coming at him if you/he let them.  You have to be firm with planning and scheduling the appropriate shut-down.  I don't think now is the time, though.  Just a few week's break maybe.

87 innings sounds like a lot for a HS varsity season.  Literature out there says kids should top out at 100 innings per year.  Take care of that arm.

87 innings in a HS varsity season is a lot. That's almost 50 percent of the innings a typical HS baseball team plays in our state (not included playoffs).

That said, a 30-day rest is not a good idea. As it stands, he's got a fine break scheduled between HS ball and his first summer tournament. He should continue to play catch and lift straight through.

Your high school coach is overusing him.  That is a ridiculous amount of innings and pitches for a 10th grader.  In most schools being in 10th grade would mean he was JV, and the JV max per game in GA is 90 pitches...so what I am reading here is that you son pitched around 12 COMPLETE games out of the 25+ that are played...you may want to rethink this strategy for next year.

If it were me I would shut him down for the year, but this is the 10th-11th grade summer, the most important time of his career, so I guess that isn't an option.  I would therefore get in front of people quick, maybe do a showcase, there are several PG events in the next month across the country.  Then I would shut him down as soon as possible.

Wareagle, I just want to add that 12 pitches per inning (1050 pitches across 87 innings) is remarkable.

I would not shut him down for a month. Rather, I'd keep him in shape so he could pitch in June and July in front of the coaches that he wants to see him. My 2019 is at 64 IP, and I expect that he will throw 25-30 innings in June and July, and then will not pitch from August until mid-November. If your son threw a similar number of June/July innings, he'd end up between 110 and 120 innings, which is not the end of the world, particularly if he averages 12 pitches per inning. 

Quick to judge CaCo.

Pretty much pitched one game a week.  As I said, he had plenty of rest between outings and was conditioned well for the season.  Smaller school and he was in the starting rotation for varsity.  Never exceeded any pitch limits and was well under them for most games.  I see 11 &12 year olds throw more than this in tournaments during the spring.  Was he used a lot? Yes.  Was he overused? No. 

I do respect your opinion, but I disagree that one game a week is too much. Each player is different and this has to be taken into consideration as well.  My son is not a "max effort" pitcher.  We he starts a game, he plans on being there to the end.  He pretty much gets in a rhythm, and usually mixes his pitches well. 

2019Dad.  He had a really good year, however after reading your post I recounted and it was actually 82 innings. (12.8 per inning). The pitch count was correct. Just for full disclosure.

wareagle posted:

Quick to judge CaCo.

Pretty much pitched one game a week.  As I said, he had plenty of rest between outings and was conditioned well for the season.  Smaller school and he was in the starting rotation for varsity.  Never exceeded any pitch limits and was well under them for most games.  I see 11 &12 year olds throw more than this in tournaments during the spring.  Was he used a lot? Yes.  Was he overused? No. 

I do respect your opinion, but I disagree that one game a week is too much. Each player is different and this has to be taken into consideration as well.  My son is not a "max effort" pitcher.  We he starts a game, he plans on being there to the end.  He pretty much gets in a rhythm, and usually mixes his pitches well. 

 

Since you said he pitched one game a week I'm guessing your season was 12 weeks long?  How long is your summer season suppose to run...another 12+?  How many innings will he be at by the end?  160? 200?

I'm not saying he has been overused for the year, I am saying he was used far too much in high school.  You said it's a smaller school, was it really vital he pitch that much, or do you have to consider the coach may not have had the players best interest at heart and was just interested in the win? 

My last point...every team from 9u to MLB has a specific roster, that roster usually consists of over half of it being pitchers, or kids able to pitch.  Yet your Varsity team had one pitcher pitching half, or near half, of the seasons TOTAL innings....doesn't that seem odd?

P.S. Not saying your kid didn't do great while pitching, just have serious concerns over how his arm was used this year so far and what is still to come.

Just as info, CaCO...

Agree that 82 is slightly on the high side vs average HS starter.  However, it is pretty much within the typical range.  Also, keep in mind, this included playoffs.  If you were to browse HS stats on Maxpreps, you would find that the majority of HS teams have two P's that get the majority of starts and IP.  Just as wareagle describes, each would start once a week and there are pitch limits, so this is not overuse or abuse.  Most HS's have between 25-30 games on their schedule, plus playoffs if they qualify.  You would also find that the team ace typically accounts for about 35-40% of the total innings.  If a team plays three games a week, that number will be a bit lower and the innings spread out to a third starter.  If the starter is efficient and consistent (as is the case here), his innings count will be higher but his pitch count relatively low.  After playoffs, our two primary starters will likely have about 70 IP and 60 IP with a few others in the 20-30 range, but the two starters perhaps not quite as efficient as OP's son, so similar pitch count totals.

Actually it is about 1/3 of the total innings we played.  Maybe you haven't watched many smaller high school teams.  I haven't seen many with 3 or more consistent pitchers. 

Absolutely, the coach is out to win.  He is supposed to be.  its not his job to worry about what my son does during the summer.  That's my job and why I am asking the questions here today.

We discussed his plan for my son to be a starting pitcher before the season.  The only thing different from my expectations was that we actually made the playoffs.  I thought he would have been a few games less overall and finished a few weeks earlier. I would say most schools our size probably have a similar pitching rotation. Not sure what kind of school your son attends, but I have never seen a high school team with half a team of pitchers!  (That could actually pitch or get significant mound time).

His summer schedule consist of six tournaments spread over the summer. I would assume he will pitch a game in each tournament.

Wareagle, does your son's travel team split games up between pitchers?  I would think if he dropped to three innings a game, once a tournament to "show", that would both reduce his innings, but also get him in front of the coaches that want to see him.  Most travel clubs I know do this to some extent.  Hopefully they are working with you on his innings.

My son was a HS pitcher as well as in college and here is what I would do based on my experience.

Shut him down from competitive pitching for 2-3 weeks and ease him back in a few innings at a time in the 4+ week time frame. Shutting down does not mean no throwing, so I would continue to have him throw lightly the first couple of weeks and then move back into a long toss routine around week 2-3. Start bull pens in week 3-4, and then ease into competitive throwing but limit the innings as he starts to ramp back up. Doing this he should be fine. 

I would highly recommend you go check out Kyle's website at drivelinebaseball.com and get him on a weighted ball program, not necessarily for the velocity improvements but they do lots of work on post throwing and building up of decelerator muscle groups. My son used a similar program at his college for four years and it greatly helped the staff. 

GO44DAD

Our travel roster does have an adequate number of pitchers. I actually  like the idea of splitting games in the summer but I have not specifically discussed with the coach.  I plan on meeting with him in the next few days and I am trying to get organized on what I want to discuss with him before summer starts.  Thanks

wareagle posted:

Absolutely, the coach is out to win.  He is supposed to be.  its not his job to worry about what my son does during the summer.  That's my job and why I am asking the questions here today.

You don't think it is your kids high school coaches job to worry about what your kid does during the summer?!?!?!?!?!?!  *sigh* and here is where I exit the conversation. 

CaCO3Girl posted:

wareagle posted:

Absolutely, the coach is out to win.  He is supposed to be.  its not his job to worry about what my son does during the summer.  That's my job and why I am asking the questions here today.

You don't think it is your kids high school coaches job to worry about what your kid does during the summer?!?!?!?!?!?!  *sigh* and here is where I exit the conversation. 

Sorry, CaCO, I'm taking opposing view with you a lot today.  Hopefully, you take as the helpful info it is intended... I suspect you will have to deal with this and also suspect you may have a slightly different perspective by then.

As HS coach, I can advise players regarding summer but have no real overriding authority.  Keep in mind, we're talking about the age when most playing summer and fall have college aspirations and are in the midst of their recruiting exposure efforts.  Most hold the travel events as more important in that regard.  No HS coach can realistically tell such a player to limit his pitch innings to X in that context.  

Caco

HS coaches job is to coach HS baseball. Yes, player safety is included in that description. He has no control over what players do with their travel teams in the summer.  He can't base his season and the season of 20 other players on what I am planning on doing this summer. Again, he was clear on his plans for my son and we had the opportunity not to play if we disagreed.  We played his season by his rules and now we have to make arrangements for summer. 

Ps- you seemed to have turned an honest request for an opinion, into an opportunity to try to bash a coach that you know nothing about. I hope you keep most of these strong opinions to yourself with your HS team or it could be a long 4 years. 

Wareagle - that is pretty impressive efficiency over the course of the season. Our ace pitched about 1/3 of our games and he is pretty efficient too. He had at least one week of rest between every start. What you are describing does not seem abusive or overused in any way. 90-100 pitches per week for a properly conditioned and prepared 15-16 years old is within current guidelines (it sounds like your son may have pitched even less than that). The general guideline may be 100 innings, but that does not take into account the relatively low number of pitches your son has thrown over the course of those innings.  

You have gotten some good advice here. It sounds like you have a good handle on the situation and have the ability to have open and frank discussions with your son's coaches. That is a good sign. Good luck this summer!

In short if you think your son is tired, he is.  If you have a break to give him some down time, a week of zero throw, but doing all the taught stretches and arm care work, but not throwing the ball, then after a week work him back up slowly to full velo via a bull pen....  After only a week of shut down, a week or so after he'll be good to go feeling totally refreshed (& mentally refreshed).  

After HS is done, when is the first summer club tourney?  How many weeks apart?  That would be a good guide.  

If you have more time take the slower time to build him back up to velo.

(Been there)

War eagle: if you can give him 2-3 weeks to rest and recover should be fine! Last summer my 2019 went complete games 5 outa 6 weeks as his inning total was reaching around 100. Had the opportunity to pitch on the field at Clemson one week that we had looked forward to all summer. Couldn't get a ball down into the zone and was out before the first ended! Was he amped up to throw there maybe, but the point is his body was tired! Gave him an off week to rest (missed a start so 2 week break) then things were back to normal. It's funny, we all worry about arm health but the arms are attached to the rest of the body and that includes the legs which I think were tired and caused my son's issues. Just watch for changes in how he pitches and you will know when he needs rest! We learned that last summer and it was nothing we had experienced before. Good luck to your son...big summer coming!

I just wrapped up my final year of coaching HS baseball...it was fun but time to move on.  Reality is, in some locations HS baseball is really being looked at as spring training for summer ball.  So, yes, while I coached HS Varsity baseball I also kept in the back of my mind the health/well being of all my guys; particularly my pitchers as I knew they had another 30+ games to go/in some instances as two way players.   Your son's number sounds pretty much on par for what I would have gotten out of our #1 guy had he been healthy all year.  My recommendation to him was some downtime and focus on getting completely healthy.  Agree with 2019Lefty21...if you watch your son objectively you will know when he looks to be wearing down.  It may not even be physically could be mental as well (something we all seem to overlook at times).  My son is a position player moving on to the next level...our plan is to take a few weeks off, enjoy the rest of his senior year, have some fun with his friends and then refocus/rededicate himself mentally and physically to preparing for his fall workouts in Sep/Oct.  Do what you think is best but rest is not overrated.  I also agree three innings a weekend is likely more than enough for coaches to see what they need.  The D1 recruits we have assisted were seen over multiple weekends each not throwing more than 3-innings.  If a coach wanted to see more he would come down and ask for another batter or two.  In some instances they came out and watched a bullpen during the week and then followed up on the weekend for another three innings. 

WAREAGLE.....based on your user name...we may be in the same state.  I was an "official" pitch counter and was wondering how you looked up your sons numbers for the season?  If I recall there is a way on the official app to look up these numbers but I have not figured out yet.   BTW...we play in the State championship this Friday and Saturday!  Good luck to you and your son this summer.

The way i see it, 1 week off with 1-2 weeks of pens or light throwing is all you really need. Listen to the arm especially if he isn't a max effort guy lighting up the gun. My son has had an instance where he was off several weeks due to tightness but bounced right back. Everyone is different. 

FTR, our HS coach knew my son played summer ball but not once asked or attempted to impact his pitch count or time on the bump. Maybe we got lucky, 6 kids D1, 2 drafted and a few D2s. Not too shabby.