Risk and recruiting..how much can you control?

Helicopter Parent Syndrome is the best explanation I can come up with.

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Would we as parents be better off trying to educate our sons on the challenges that lie ahead as contrasted with attempting to "control" what lies ahead, for them?

I would think that most parents do try to educate their sons on the challenges that lie ahead. However, the biggest challenge may be getting them to truly listen to what you are saying. Oftentimes, in the eyes of an 18-year-old, parents know next to nothing.

At one time, our son was very high on a certain baseball program. My husband and I were concerned about some of the potential pitfalls at that school and tried to talk with him about them, but he refused to listen. Unexpected circumstances directed him down another path, but several of his friends ended up attending the school he was originally interested in. Now, every single one of his friends plan to transfer out, saying they hate it there.

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Would we as parents be providing a better process by letting our sons know we cannot control what lies ahead and that it is only controlled by their dedication and talent, in the classroom and on the field?

I would imagine that just about every parent does say something along those lines. However, I don't see the harm in trying to gather information and facts about specific programs in order to make the best possible decision, which admittedly is a decision made partially in the "dark."

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Would we as parents be better at what we do by recognizing we are trying to control risks that we cannot?

I think that most parents, myself included, learn by doing -- and by listening to the experienced advice of those who have gone before us. It's not until you are actually in a particular situation that you realize there are things you can't control. Looking in the "rear" view mirror allows you to have a more balanced perspective. It is difficult to see things clearly when you have not yet encountered certain challenges.

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Infielddad...

Great post.

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Why don't you guys just check the Owner's Manual that came with each kid?

I can't find where cadMOM put my copies....


cadDAD

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Would we as parents answer these questions differently if we are looking at them as I do, in the "rear" view mirror, or as the parent of a 2009/2010 recruit?

infielddad - Good set of observations/questions. Since I have a 2011 who may be or not be in that game again (only time will tell...and I sure don't know the answer)...maybe I will get to answer this question in a couple of years. I'll get back to you.

Back in 1994/95 when my last son was looking for colleges we did not have all the info etc we have now and yours truly was learning the ropes--- you could have talked about all the marketing work he and I did but in MAY of his senior year he still had not made a decision ands was not happy---then it dropped out of the trees--New Mexico State-- it so happened the marketing we did paid off--based on reports from their buds the NMSU coaches offered him a scholarship sight unseen--- and then to top it off over the holiday break in December they upped his monies---so much for all the steps we go thru today--he redshirted his frosh year and they played the rest of the 4 years and never looked back.

It is all about patience

I grew up with a friend who into adulthood had a "Woe is me. Why does this stuff happen to me?" approach to life. Early in my corporate career I was provided a class on maintaining control. I helped him with what I was taught. I've always taught this to my kids (now 15 & 20).

There are two kinds of events in your life, the controllable and uncontrollable. You have to learn what you can control and control it. You have to learn what you can't control and understand your options should it occur.

Let's take a straight line. To the left is what you can control. To the right is what you can't control. In the middle is a huge area that can go either way depending on how responsible you are with your life. The goal is to push the "control" bar as far to the right as possible.

The best example I can think if relating to recruiting is learn as much as possible from this board and other sources. Be realistic about skill level. Then ask the right questions during the recruiting process. Take away as much surprise (gain control) as possible. Part of this is related in another thread. Hear the truth, not what you want to hear. "I believe you can compete for a position here" (at the U) doesn't mean "you will get a position here."

Great post infielddad.

I am/was one of those D1 parents and whole heartily believe that those kids in general are the exceptions to the rule. In our State which admittedly is not a hotbed and last year only a dozen or so kids went to a D1 school. However 10x that went to follow their dreams at other good academic institutions and fulfilled that dream of playing college baseball. While it may be interesting to hear about the crem-de-la-crem situations, reality says you should land where you fit, and those icecube trays of the elite schools have limited compartments to fill.

I would like to throw out an invite to those parents who have experienced the recruiting experiences of the D2, D3, JC, NAIA.

Start posting some of your experiences

Not only is this a reality check for many posters, IMHO, it will demonstrate that a great time, and wonderful baseball experience can be had at all levels. Personally, those are the stories and experiences that I want to hear about because those are is the levels that a majority of the kids will end up at.

I plead guilty of talking D1, that's my experience.......What are your experiences?

Great topic infielddad. I can set here and tell you I'm against controlling the outcome of my son's recruiting ride but I also admit I don't know what I would have done had it not gone smoothly. I was very involved but I "allowed" it to happen ---- luckily for all it happened the way I "knew" it would happen.

Since my wife doesn't read the HSBBW I want to interject another problem we can encounter as our sons adjust to their new environments. Both parents won't always maintain the same restraints when it comes to control and influence and our sons sometimes pick and choose the parent when seeking an answer. It's difficult to teach independence when the other half is unknowingly promoting dependence with unwavering support. "Tough Love" is not easy for some parents (especially moms) to accept. I remember a dad on the HSBBW telling me how he sold his son's bed when he left home. That wouldn't fly at our house.

Great post, infielddad.

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Would we as parents be better at what we do by realizing DI, a baseball scholarship, or other similar items are "risks" that can set our son's up for "failure?"

I've agonized that for eight years now...........

And, still do, especially now.

But, I always remember that "you can't steal second base with one foot on first."

Our sons are attempting lofty goals that only a very few ever obtain.

I give all the encourgament that I can, and, am prepared to pick up the pieces when the inevitable failure comes.

I think most don't accept that failure will come.............

Personal thoughts are the only direct involvement parents should have are (1) helping son identify what he wants out of college experience, and (2) discussing amount of scholarship after offer is made, which obviously depends in large part on personal finances, etc. Parents can be involved on the back side helping investigate the program, and probably should try and call parents of players from the offering team to get their views on their own son's experiences.

Our sons need to grow up, and learning to deal directly with the coaches is part of the process. We're not going to be at practices or in the dugout. We might as well see if they can handle it now.

I don't think either my son or I ever asked about playing time expectations or "guarantees." This is because with the new APR rules, most coaches aren't recruiting anyone that does not have the real potential to be a starter by their junior year. The only questions I ever asked were about (1) academic support systems, (2) their view of son's strength's and weaknesses, and (3) only if our own due diligence (review of rosters and recruiting press releases over a multi-year period) indicated a problem with the program stockpiling players and large amounts of cuts, an explanation of their recruiting approach and cut policy.

The goal here is our sons' educations--graduating with a degree (regardless of pro potential) plus the intangibles of character development college athletics can provide. I never want my son entering into anything thinking he doesn't have to compete every day. That's one thing I like about baseball--the daily competition, and dealing with success and failure, will help my son prepare for the realities of life.

DXBIBLE great thoughts!

btw- I saw your screen name and thought "oh boy" because at first glance it looked like DIBBLE an old HSBBW poster from the archives. Anyone old timers remember him?

Yeah, I did...........

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Would we as parents answer these questions differently if we are looking at them as I do, in the "rear" view mirror, or as the parent of a 2009/2010 recruit?

I don't think so. We worked together to identify and generate opportunities, but the decision making other than finances was generally left to him.

By the time he was ready to make a decision where he wanted to go to college he had forgotten more that I'll ever know about playing on a baseball team, being a good teammate and playing well. He wanted a good quality larger school with a team that played at a high level that had demonstrated success at that level. I figured it was his life and he was putting forth the effort to make it work. He should be able to say where that was. He did that. I just stuck to what I knew. Excellent post IFD.

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There are two kinds of events in your life, the controllable and uncontrollable. You have to learn what you can control and control it. You have to learn what you can't control and understand your options should it occur.

Great posts everyone.I think the above is a key element.My own son at a JC as most of you know. I didnt initially want him there,I was focused on the education, he was focused on playing baseball. Wrong or right for him,he is an adult and made his decision.
As season is moving along, he actually made a good decision. Hes getting a lot of looks, playing well, hitting well,getting his GE done for cheap. He wanted D1, didnt get enough looks for whatever reasons.I look at him now compared to a junior in HS, different person, boy to becoming a man.
I think if he continues the way he is going he will have his dream. I as a parent would of been very happy for him to be at a D2, D3, NAIA, he has other plans.
If it doesn't happen then he will adjust his dream, as we all have to. We can try to influence our kids,give them advice but it is their life and they have to live it, and sometimes mistakes are made.
I do think it is the responsibility of the parents to sit and discuss all options with their kids, and do research on certain programs, thats not being a helicopter parent.
Being a helicopter parent is interferring so much that they are not able to make their own decision.
RZ, playing at a JC is great. Good baseball in the Big 8, we have been playing some Bay area teams, Have seen good pitching, one guy yesterday that was drafted out of HS. had a no hitter going into the 4th inning with about 30 scouts with guns on him , when a certain young lad(wont mention who LOL) came up and broke up the no hitter with a line drive to rt field , great way to get noticed when you hit off the guy that all the scouts came to see.
All kidding aside, I have come across so many parents that are so adverse to JC, I have run across at least 5 kids I know that started this year at a D1 school and every one is back on a JC roster. My son has about 11 now, kids back from D1 and d2 schools at a JC.So that raises my eyebrows. They are coming back for one reason or another.
I think there is a lot of egos involved with these kids, and some parents to say their kid is at some great D1. They sit for 2 years and maybe play as a junior. Yeah they are getting their 4 year degree, but when a JC kid graduates from a 4 year, it wont say he went to a jc first.
How can anyone replace 180 at bats a year for two years with sitting on a bench. People can tell me the players are getting good training, good education, but they have juts burnt two years of playing the game.the game is fun and meant to be played, so GO where you will play and have some fun . My son is having an absolute ball, it could not have been scriped better if it were a book.

with regards to risk in recruiting, theres always a risk for the player and coach. but i watched an interiew with terrell pryor last year and theyasked him if any head coaches told him he'd have the starting job as a freshmen in hopes to get him to sign. he said no, coaches and players at this caliber both realize you cant guarentee anything, a player has to show up prove hes worth what he is, put in the work and get better everyday. Id never want to go to a school that offered the be job straight up (granted were talking about being on the roster,but at some point hopefully everyone on the roster will play (minus redshirts)) I completely agree with what he says, ive seen a teams top 2 recruits on big scholarships come in, suck it up and get redshirted than cut or told to go elsewhere to play the next season. is that a great guarentee? they were on the team

The best advise is go where you are wanted. You know the difference. It is just like courting. If your suitor is really trying to woo you versus the one who says I'll call you sometime you know who is most interested. Go with the one who REALY REALLY wants you and acts like they can't live without you. If they call you often and persue you more than you persue them then they are interested in your son helping their team. We try to make it too complicated. Control is something that none of us have or should expect.

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ranted were talking about being on the roster,but at some point hopefully everyone on the roster will play (minus redshirts))

That is not true. There are kids who never play that are on rosters.

Good post.
I have been posting here for many years and I stand behind the advice of:

1. Do your homework. That incudes trying to be objective about your player's talent and where he will fit in as a player and fit in for his education. Try not to fit a square peg into a round hole.
2. Don't worry about the things you cannot control.

This can easily be accomplished by giving your son opportunities to play other than the HS team and you do not have to break the bank. Understand the differences in divisions, scholarships amounts for each division and low cost JUCO programs. Public or private. Large or small school. Remember that D1 programs are not for everyone. Discuss what goals your player has, and discuss your financial situation. Does he need to say closer to home or can he go out of state, how much are you willing to pay and does he need to take a loan, what does he want to major in, does he wish to someday play on the professional level. Consider all viable options within reason. And of course don't forget about doing well in the classroom. Setting goals early helps in the process. And once your player receives serious consideration, have him discuss with the coach what scholarship amount he may expect if asked to sign.

If you spend too much time worrying, you will miss the HS years that fly by so quickly, concentrate of the time you have him close to you ansd enjoy every game, even the bad ones.

And once your player leaves home to face the challenges, make it be known and clear that it is now his path, you are there for support, he has control over failure vs. success.

TPM... Best advise so far.

TPM

What do you think the percentage of parents who let go is?

How many make calls to the college coach to see how their player is doing? Just as they did in HS

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Nope...not mine. Never seen it before.

Really? GW4S engraved on the back...can't imagine how that got there?



By the way TR...can you spare a couple of triple A's?

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Originally posted by TRhit:
TPM

What do you think the percentage of parents who let go is?

How many make calls to the college coach to see how their player is doing? Just as they did in HS

What do you think the percentage is?
Did I say anything about calling the coach?

TPM

First of all you do not answer a question with a question---I learned that a long time ago--it shows one to be defensive

Secondly you were talking about letting go---that was my response to your post regarding letting go

TR,
Are you telling me how I should post?

What does this have to do with the topic? I am not going to tell someone how to let go, they have to figure that out themselves.

Why don't you tell them how to let go. Why don't you offer something constructive?

TPM

What is your problem?

I said nothing about how you should post

I am offering things that are constructive as far as I can tell from PM's amd emails.

Have a nice evening

quote:

And once your player leaves home to face the challenges, make it be known and clear that it is now his path, you are there for support, he has control over failure vs. success.

TPM, I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. My son worked really hard to get to play college baseball but now it's time for us as parents to step back and let him be fully independent. What he chooses to do with this opportunity is totally up to him. We have seen or heard of several freshmen college ball players that have left their D1 colleges or are ineligible this season due to grades. Knowing some of these kids it breaks my heart for them but they made choices to get where they are. As a parent we can only control so much and then the rest is up to our children.

Fanofgame, very informative post about your son's team. Yes, there are parents that are disappointed son did not go to Big U, at least your son had the academics to attend, mine choose not to focus on grades. Made my college costs drop quite a bit so there is an upside for me. I plan to keep tabs on son's big name teammates and see where they end up in the end. He has his college that wants him and I hope he works his buns off to get even better. I'm happy to be able to sit back and watch his senior year without that to worry about. Good to hear your son is doing so well.