Rotational Hitting!

Lets take this video. Pitch is away. I see a lot of "stuff" to comment on in this video. I'd like for some others to go first with their observations.



Of course, if anyone says "Coach you go first," I will.

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Originally posted by CoachB25:
Lets take this video. Pitch is away. I see a lot of "stuff" to comment on in this video. I'd like for some others to go first with their observations.



Of course, if anyone says "Coach you go first," I will.

I see on the fly adjustments to an outside pitch and it appears he is trying to lift the ball to left. Back knee is pointing in the optimum position to go to left.

Coach, I'm not a believer in saying different pitch locations produce different swings....I know you are....We differ on that....

I'm not looking for arm slot, connection, and other such related stuff.....What I am looking for is momentum, stretch and weight shift....These three things will give a hitter the timimg they need to hit with consistency and power....And, I do believe a hitter must have some power in his swing....Players who play a season and don't hit at least a homerun, or two, need to improve on those three things....

And, there is a universal move I see in ALL great hitters which, IMO, is the foundation, and basis, for producing those three things....

This is the action I'm referring to....Pitch location makes no difference, IMO, as to whether this move, or action, occurs in a swing producing momentum, stretch and weight shift........

The back hip has not changed it's position from frame 1 to frame 4......But, the front hip certainly has....And, IMO, this is not rotation...It is shifting of the weight while keeping the hips separated...



The same move is evident in Manny's swing which some say is a poor swing....I say it's a great swing....This move is why great hitters can adjust to tough pitch speeds and locations and others can't....Manny lunges, but, he keeps the hips separated long enough while they are sliding forward to adjust to the ball.....

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
Lets take this video. Pitch is away. I see a lot of "stuff" to comment on in this video. I'd like for some others to go first with their observations.



Of course, if anyone says "Coach you go first," I will.

It looks like a check swing. Is it?

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Originally posted by deemax:

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Originally posted by CoachB25:
Lets take this video. Pitch is away. I see a lot of "stuff" to comment on in this video. I'd like for some others to go first with their observations.



Of course, if anyone says "Coach you go first," I will.

It looks like a check swing. Is it?

Yes, according to where I picked this video up, it is an attempt at a basehit to left field. The hitter then checks right at the point of unhinging the wrist. Deemax, as you might know, I don't have the ability to posts video on any particular host site and so, I have to take what I can get.

It is interesting to see the differences we all see with one piece of video. BlueDog, yes, I see concepts that I think enable me to use video such as this for a teaching tool. I see the hands staying in a relationship with the shoulder even for an outside pitch. I see the concept of tilt in play. I see the shoulder angle and the bat angle as a continuation of that shoulder angle. I see being able to give instruction to a hitter and then show a hitter the concept of allowing a ball to get deep and go opposite. (Although this is a checkswing.) I look at the control of the hips and that they are not flying or "spinning" as many claim when rotational hitting is attempted. Look at the wrist. Do you see the point where the wrist are being to unhinge. I percieve that there has been a angle akin to 90 degrees with the bat and now the unhinging begins. I believe that this is a perfect example of an alignment of one of the drills I teach. (Sorry can't disclose more.)

Thoughts on this? Errors?

Finally, BlueDog, I think what we are all looking for is some philosophy that clicks with us. I've made no secret that is the case for me. I also made no secret that in order for any system to work, it has to not only click with the instructor/coach but also the player. When you can do that, you're on to something that will benefit the player.

The problem I see with connection, posture and rotation is that many of the old-time great hitters looked so different from many of the the modern day great hitters....

Many of the old-timers had flatter follow-throughs and more upright posture...Some of them hit off their front foot with the back foot in the air....And, IMO, the old-timers couldn't hit today's pitching argument is simply a smokescreen for some to adapt their agenda to video.....

I say let the video stand on it's own....There are differences, but, video of Aaron is just as telling as video of Bonds....There are similarities, but little in posture and connection....Aaron drops his hands and arms and his shoulders are pretty much level in his swing...His hands and arms are not parallel to his shoulders....And, he was one of the greatest hitters ever....

Three things they do have in common....Momentum, stretch and weight shift....So does Manny in that supposedly poor swing....If I was a young baseball player, instead of dismissing a homerun as a poor swing, I'd say teach me how to do that...

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
The problem I see with connection, posture and rotation is that many of the old-time great hitters looked so different from many of the the modern day great hitters....

Many of the old-timers had flatter follow-throughs and more upright posture...Some of them hit off their front foot with the back foot in the air....And, IMO, the old-timers couldn't hit today's pitching argument is simply a smokescreen for some to adapt their agenda to video.....

I say let the video stand on it's own....There are differences, but, video of Aaron is just as telling as video of Bonds....There are similarities, but little in posture and connection....Aaron drops his hands and arms and his shoulders are pretty much level in his swing...His hands and arms are not parallel to his shoulders....And, he was one of the greatest hitters ever....

Three things they do have in common....Momentum, stretch and weight shift....So does Manny in that supposedly poor swing....If I was a young baseball player, instead of dismissing a homerun as a poor swing, I'd say teach me how to do that...

I would agree that they all have these three traits in common. I would also add that they are all very close to the same position at go. What I do disagree with is that Bonds and Aaron's swings don't have the same adjustability to late movement. The reason is that at go, Aaron has already shifted his weight to his front side and most of his momentum is gone as well. I'm not saying he still wouldn't be a good hitter, but IMO, he would struggle with certain Pitchers. I believe there is a good reason why we don't see that style anymore. It's because it didn't work at a certain time in the League.

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Originally posted by BlueDog:
The back hip has not changed it's position from frame 1 to frame 4......But, the front hip certainly has....And, IMO, this is not rotation...It is shifting of the weight while keeping the hips separated...



The same move is evident in Manny's swing which some say is a poor swing....I say it's a great swing....This move is why great hitters can adjust to tough pitch speeds and locations and others can't....Manny lunges, but, he keeps the hips separated long enough while they are sliding forward to adjust to the ball.....

I agree with your description of the action of the hips. I believe the back hip keeps the stretch and keeps he upper body from turning too soon. I believe the upper body and front shoulder and Lat have to be stretched too though for maximum power potential. Do you agree?

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What I do disagree with is that Bonds and Aaron's swings don't have the same adjustability to late movement. The reason is that at go, Aaron has already shifted his weight to his front side and most of his momentum is gone as well.

Your statement tells me that we differ on how momentum and weight shift is achieved/accomplished.....

Even on what weight shift is about....Things such as, when does weight shift begin and how long does it last...When does it end....We differ on these things....

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I believe the upper body and front shoulder and Lat have to be stretched too though for maximum power potential. Do you agree?

Concentrating on certain muscles is not the way to go, IMO....I say, load the hands far back from the front hip....Load the hands against the front hip.....It's a two-way street...The hands go back and the front hip opens....The muscles that need to get stretched, get stretched....

Concentrating on certain muscles connotates scap loading and connecting to the shoulders, IMO.....I'm not into the kinetic chain stuff....I don't believe the swing unloads in a kinetic chain....

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Concentrating on certain muscles is not the way to go, IMO....I say, load the hands far back from the front hip....Load the hands against the front hip.....It's a two-way street...The hands go back and the front hip opens....The muscles that need to get stretched, get stretched....

I am more in agreement with one of Mankin's 10 absolutes in that the front elbow needs to get behind the center of the body. I just see the front shoulder and Lat getting stretched by doing this. I agree totally as far as the "two-way street".

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The hands go back and the front hip opens....The muscles that need to get stretched, get stretched....

We agree!

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I don't believe the swing unloads in a kinetic chain....

We don't agree.

-kudos to ya blue for actually explaining you theory on certain aspects of the swing, in depth.

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Originally posted by BlueDog:



Three things they do have in common....Momentum, stretch and weight shift....So does Manny in that supposedly poor swing....If I was a young baseball player, instead of dismissing a homerun as a poor swing, I'd say teach me how to do that...

When comparing these two guys' swings, it is best to compare them to Pitchers that use their momentum, weight shift and stretch in the same ways. Tim Lincecum's mechanics in Pitching are more closely related to Aaron's swing and Roy Oswalt's mechanics are more closely related to Barry Bond's swing.

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Originally posted by Hit It Here:
I have . Every website from Mike Epstien and pinkman down and everyone I have talked to talks about hitting EVERY pitch out front. Mostly at full extension front elbow up. Out front doesn't send anything the other way. The major leagers they show on the sites are just the big home run hitters. All pulling. Not everyone will be a Bonds. There theory is matching the plain of the bat to the ball. You can't do that without hitting out front.

Epstein doesn't say you have to hit every ball out front. The more outside the pitch the deeper you let it get into the zone. Just because you try to match the plane of the pitch doesn't mean you are going to on every swing. He also states that full extension comes after contact with the ball not at contact.

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Originally posted by Gameth:
He also states that full extension comes after contact with the ball not at contact.

His book is actually a bit ambiguous about this.

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Originally posted by John YaYa:

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Originally posted by Gameth:
He also states that full extension comes after contact with the ball not at contact.

His book is actually a bit ambiguous about this.

I have not seen the book, I have the dvd and cd rom. Maybe he has changed his view since the book?

Level to the ball or level swing period?

TW said level to the ball. One of my son's coache's says level shoulders and level swing.

His hitting coach says level to the ball.

Pete Rose said it best, "see the ball and hit it".

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Originally posted by dazed63:
Level to the ball or level swing period?

TW said level to the ball. One of my son's coache's says level shoulders and level swing.

His hitting coach says level to the ball.

Pete Rose said it best, "see the ball and hit it".

thanks, coach, great clip, being a lefty batter that is a mirror of what his hitting coach is showing him.

his travel manager does not like that back shoulder "dipping" if I can explain it correctly.

The wall of "Strikes" is full of kids who have learned to hit there so I'm not too concerned.

quote:

Originally posted by dazed63:
TW said level to the ball. One of my son's coache's says level shoulders and level swing.

No major leaguer keeps the shoulders level and swings level to the ground.

Not even on balls at the top of the strike zone.

EVERY major leaguer uppercuts (aka level to the ball), varying from a little to a lot (depending on the location of the pitch).

quote:

Originally posted by dazed63:
his travel manager does not like that back shoulder "dipping" if I can explain it correctly.

His travel manager doesn't know what a good swing looks like.

I would find a new team if he insists that his kids swing level to the ground and not dip their back shoulder.

It would be interesting to ask him how he thinks you should adjust to pitches up and down in the strike zone while still swinging level to the ground.

BlueDog

You continue to regurgitate---please---teach us something instead of jibberish and pictures