Runner hit by thrown ball on DP attempt

An umpire's judgement will affect this call greatly. For example, if the runner was close to the fielder, and it looked like he intended to get in the way ... you have 2 outs. If the runner appeared to get out of the way, but it still hit him, it's a no call. Batter/runner is safe.
Get ready for a storm of replies; but seeing this play happen, rather than reading about it is 2 different things; and everyone will have an opinion. I'm assuming of course you know the rules applying to each situation. For example, read up on force play/slide rule/ etc.: and runner/offensive interference.

While I would never be opposed to anyone reading the rule book, this play does not concern the force play slide rule...you can save that reading for later. No runner in any situation is "forced" to slide. The rule deals with runners who have chosen to slide, and that doesn't appear to be the case here.

While intent is specifically required for interference with a thrown ball in OBR, it is not included in the FED rule.

FED 8-4-h: The batter runner is out when any runner or retired runner obviously hiders an obvious double play

The word obvious is different from intentional. One can do something that is obvious, unintentionally.

That said, some common sense needs to be present. For example, if the runner or retired runner is not where a quality thrown ball would strike him, and he gets hit anyway, I wouldn't rule interference with a thrown ball. We don't want to encourage the pegging of runners to get a double play.

In your scenario, if the runner was between F6 and F3 regardless if he was still trying for the bag or not,and a quality throw was made, I would have ruled inteference by the retired runner and rung up the batter runner.

What if the runner slides with his hands up and the throw hits one of his hands?

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Originally posted by Tangents23:
What if the runner slides with his hands up and the throw hits one of his hands?

FED 8-4-h: The batter runner is out when any runner or retired runner obviously hiders an obvious double play

I know that many coaches teach the figure-four slide with the hands up to avoid jamming fingers.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:
While I would never be opposed to anyone reading the rule book, this play does not concern the force play slide rule...you can save that reading for later. No runner in any situation is "forced" to slide. The rule deals with runners who have chosen to slide, and that doesn't appear to be the case here.

Yeah, I know and fully realize that. When giving answers sometimes to these types of questions, it helps to get the questionaire thinking globally. That is: to get them to get into the rule book to understand all that would/could be involved here. That way they don't have to write "OK - so same situation, but now ...". Sometimes it actually is good for the game AND the person doing the asking to not answer directly; but get them to look some things up. Kinda like the Fed does on the test. But I do appreciate your answer as well.

I believe this is covered in Rule 8-4a 2 When a play is being made on a runner or batter runner, he establishes his baseline as directly between his position and the base toward which he is moving.
In the op "short keeps the ball, steps on 2nd. Takes a step and a hop towards right field and throws the ball."
Also in case book 8.4.2 COMMENT The umpire has authority to declare two runners out when a runner or retired runner illegally interferes and prevents a double play. THEN AGAIN THIS MIGHT BE A HTBT!

As far as the runner throwing his hands up, you have to read that on a case by case basis. If he is sliding and his hands are up in a natural position then it usually will be nothing. If he slides way late in order to get his hands in the way then you probably have something. Either way the PU will call this more times than not because the BU has to turn with the ball and may not get a true look at it. On the other hand the PU should be coming out to the third base side of the mound to watch for the interference.
In the OP the PU will also be the one watching the play.

I saw something similar this weekend but different in that it it was not an (obvious) double play situation. I'm curious what the umpires have to say :

It was a D1 college game, runners on 1st & 3rd, 1 out. Batter hits grounder to first baseman, base runners are both moving on contact. First base fields it in vicinity of bag and fires home for a tag on runner. The thrown ball nails batter runner on the helmet. Helmet flies backwards, ball bounces to right center, and runner stumbles to first base.

Plate ump called batter runner out and moved both base runners back, no run scored.

Was this the right call and what is the rule?

Thanks!

From your post it sounds pretty clear that the umpire called the batter/runner out for interference....

That rule is NCAA 6-2g which goes soemthing like..."When a batter runner interferes with a thrown ball the batter runner is out and runners return to the bases occupied at the time of the pitch..."

Now as to what the batter runner did to interfere, I dont know, wasnt there, but I would probably put my money on him deliberately running outside of the running lane to cut down the angle of the throw......

In interference with a thrown ball, (which is different than with a batted ball), the act must be intentional.....just getting hit with a thrown ball doing what a runner is legally supposed to do is not interference.....

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Now as to what the batter runner did to interfere, I dont know, wasnt there, but I would probably put my money on him deliberately running outside of the running lane to cut down the angle of the throw......

It was a bang-bang play (literally). I expected F3 to step on the bag, but when I saw him reach back to throw, my eyes went to the runner coming from 3rd to home. Then I heard the "pop" of the helmet. From my seat, it seemed like the runner was nailed while running pretty much on the baseline; and the first baseman just made an errant throw.

Obviously the PU saw it differently.

On a throw from first back home the runner's lane isn't in effect. Any interference on the BR is going to have to be intentional, sudden swerve to get in the way, reaching for the ball with his hand or arm. Who knows what they had but it's a good chance they kicked it or you didn't a good look at what he did. Impossible to tell.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:

quote:

Originally posted by Tangents23:
What if the runner slides with his hands up and the throw hits one of his hands?

FED 8-4-h: The batter runner is out when any runner or retired runner obviously hiders an obvious double play

Reggie Jackson wasn't out in the World Series against the Dodgers, in roughly 1976.

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Originally posted by biggerpapi:

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:

quote:

Originally posted by Tangents23:
What if the runner slides with his hands up and the throw hits one of his hands?

FED 8-4-h: The batter runner is out when any runner or retired runner obviously hiders an obvious double play

Reggie Jackson wasn't out in the World Series against the Dodgers, in roughly 1976.

Do you really want HS and college games called as they are occasionally in the pros, or would you rather we follow the rules?

I'm saying that play wasn't called by the rules. Jackson clearly interfered with the throw and it wasn't called.

Plus, any time I can get a dig in at the Yankees, it's been a good day.

And neither was the coaches interference on McGwire's record breaking home run.