Ryan Ripken

quote:

Originally posted by dblemup:
Give it a rest. The kid is a good person, above solid pedigree, serious upside/projectability. It's not affecting anyone here...stop please.

I strongly agree, no matter who the player may be, he seems to have upside and a possible future in the game later on, and I am sure that they didn't sign him so Cal would make a deal to show up and sign autographs.

Has anyone ever done a REAL study about how many professional all players have some connection to the game by way of family or friends?

quote:

Originally posted by Stats4Gnats:
Has anyone ever done a REAL study about how many professional all players have some connection to the game by way of family or friends?

Stats, there is a job for you! I suppose there aren't too many. I think that is how many look at it as a wasted pick, pick someone that might have a better chance.

Who might have a better chance than a player who grew up around baseball and may have been blessed with the right genes.

The reality is that most players will not make it whether their dad or anyone else in the family did.

What is interesting is that most of the players drafted who have fathers that work in the profession, their sons head off to college first.

That right there tells you how little the chance is of getting to the show. You might be drafted by a name, but after that you have to prove it was YOU who deserved to be there.

College is a better option for most players unless the player is almost ML ready, which most are not.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

Who might have a better chance than a player who grew up around baseball and may have been blessed with the right genes.

The reality is that most players will not make it whether their dad or anyone else in the family did.

What is interesting is that most of the players drafted who have fathers that work in the profession, their sons head off to college first.

That right there tells you how little the chance is of getting to the show. You might be drafted by a name, but after that you have to prove it was YOU who deserved to be there.

College is a better option for most players unless the player is almost ML ready, which most are not.

Very accurate TPM, they grow up around MLB, know more to begin with and usually are given a longer rope to succeed or fail. This also transcends to college ball, name dropping for instance. Looks good on paper for the college coach. And when junior is sitting around the retirement home, he can always boast about turnin down pro ball to go to truck driving school. At some point they have to prove ability to play MLB. Junior usually has more access to equipment, and coaching then the average kid. I'm sure ole Cecil Fielder had more than a t for Prince to practice that sweet swing of his......

I resent the class warfare comment. It is a Fraternity, you do need to be invited into it, if they do not like you they can kick you out. It has always been this way and will remain so. It has not changed in 100 years. If you did not understand this at the begining of the process, you did not do your homework.

Florida, I do agree with your fraternity, its like trying to get a longshoreman job, one has to be invited. The one percenters usually don't like being called out, do they?

The best book for a young person to read so that they can have a decent retirement is the book I quoted. I wish it was out when I was young. It is the only way the average earner can live comfortably other than winning the lottery. IMO it should be required reading in HS.

Reading is a hobby of mine, PM me some time and I'll give you some good books to read.

I'll bet you there's far more nepotism in every day life than there is in pro baseball. In baseball relatives aren't being handed MLB roster spots. They are being given an opportunity at the lowest level to work their way up to a MLB roster spot. I've seen far more business people in positions of high management in companies than I've seen incompetent relatives in MLB.

Let's go back to the argument many make on this board about LL all-stars and high school teams. If you don't want to get overlooked be better than being on the bubble. 84% of MLB'ers come from the top ten rounds of the draft. 94% come from the top twenty rounds. No one with a real strong chance to make MLB is getting stiffed out of the opportunity because a relative is taken late in the draft. In Ryan Ripken's case, since he was taken in the 20th round versus the 40th round several teams saw something. The Orioles selected him before losing him to another organization.

In all the years of the draft (since 1966) how many relatives/friends of an organization drafted in the last five rounds have made MLB other than Piazza? Given the answer to the question, even if I don't know the exact number (it may be only Piazza) how can anyone say knowing someone in MLB genuinely helps?

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

quote:

Originally posted by Stats4Gnats:
Has anyone ever done a REAL study about how many professional all players have some connection to the game by way of family or friends?

Stats, there is a job for you! I suppose there aren't too many. I think that is how many look at it as a wasted pick, pick someone that might have a better chance.

Who might have a better chance than a player who grew up around baseball and may have been blessed with the right genes.

The reality is that most players will not make it whether their dad or anyone else in the family did.

What is interesting is that most of the players drafted who have fathers that work in the profession, their sons head off to college first.

That right there tells you how little the chance is of getting to the show. You might be drafted by a name, but after that you have to prove it was YOU who deserved to be there.

College is a better option for most players unless the player is almost ML ready, which most are not.

I remember hearing a former NHL hockey player talking about his two kids college and pro potential. He said they have all the ability but lack the motivation and work ethic since they've grown up with a cushy life. Being the offspring of a professional athlete can cut both ways.

The chances are where you end up in life has mostly to do with the person you see when you look in the mirror.

quote:

Originally posted by Alex1235464545:
The orioles have drafted Ryan Ripken in the 20th round of the 2012 mlb draft. The team released a statement saying the name he had on his back had nothing to do with the draft. Heres a video of him swinging http://www.perfectgame.org/pla...ofile.aspx?ID=232682 His swing is awful, and his arm is 75mph from first. Not a typical draft pick number. What do you all think?

That is a long-a$$ swing for having a Major League daddy. Doesn't matter WHAT high-horse anybody wants to ride over what you're not actually supposed to say out in the open...

...'course if you'll recall Iron Man's hitting career - he went through just about every batting stance known to exist, and then some...poor kid's probably just having an identity crisis.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Stats, there is a job for you! I suppose there aren't too many. I think that is how many look at it as a wasted pick, pick someone that might have a better chance.

What percentage do you suppose would “not too many” be?

quote:

Who might have a better chance than a player who grew up around baseball and may have been blessed with the right genes.

I doubt many would have “a better chance”, but I don’t know that those with that better chance have proven to be any better than those who didn’t grow up “around baseball”.

quote:

The reality is that most players will not make it whether their dad or anyone else in the family did.

Of course “most” won’t, but that’s not the issue. To me the issue is, if one out a million regular kids without that advantage makes it, if two out a million with the advantage make it, it might even still be reasonable. But what if its 5 in a million or even more? Doesn’t that at least beg the question of are the “best” really getting chosen?

quote:

What is interesting is that most of the players drafted who have fathers that work in the profession, their sons head off to college first.

I hope that’s true, but I’ve never seen any real proof of it. Of the several kids I’m on speaking terms with their “baseball” parents who got drafted right out of HS, every single one encouraged the kid to sign. Of the ones who encourage the kids to go to college, I suspect most now that the kid would never do much more than bounce around the MiL, and they weren’t willing to continue supporting a lifestyle the kid wasn’t earning.

quote:

That right there tells you how little the chance is of getting to the show. You might be drafted by a name, but after that you have to prove it was YOU who deserved to be there.

College is a better option for most players unless the player is almost ML ready, which most are not.

Perhaps you didn’t notice that in my question I said. “professional ball players”, not ML ball players. There aren’t many players who skip the Mil, so that becomes the first real opportunity to make it to the ML. If spots are being taken by nepotism, there’s no way to tell what might have been is all I’m saying.

Stats,
I am sorry you must have misunderstood me and I you.

I was speaking about players whose dads made it to MLB or those that are involved in the game at the professional level (scouts, executives, players, milb managers, etc. I do not believe you would find many of their offspring in MLB today.

So the percentage would be most likely pretty low.

I know that of the many scouts that I know, their sons went to college first. That was BBscout's advice to me about son, as was a few other scouts in our area that have had sons go on to play after HS. Most went to college first. The best conversation I ever had with a former ML player was with Bryan Harvey, his son attended where son went.

That book was required reading in our home. But don't see how it has anything to do with this topic.

I think the problem today is that some folks see their sons future in baseball as their ticket to their own financial security.

It doesn't work like that.

PUHD, pick up Shawn Green's book, The Way of Baseball. It might be a good read for you.

class warfare exists and is very real:



This trend needs to reverse

Always someone who can say it much better than me, If I'll just count to ten before saying it...

That's absolute--most people do get more successful as time goes on. However, measure it against your cohort--you'll find that there is less mobility now than there was in previous generations. People now stay in the same quintile relative to those the same age moreso than ever before.

Boy, this sure did turn out to be an interesting thread.

I just want to know--Did the boy play Little League or Cal Ripken ball????

or to not be drafted as the relative of a former MLB player you really must be lame.

Never hear about the kids that don't play.

After watching young players for most my life it is clear that son's of former MLB players have a "slightly" better chance to develop into MLB players themself.

I'm not just talking about the Fielders, Griffey's, Bonds, etc.

Steve Lombardozzi was a nice player a bit short on tools while in high school back in 2007. No one in their right mind would have guessed he would some day play in the Big Leagues. Well maybe his father, former MLB player by the same name.

Both Ripken and Lombardozzi were from Maryland. PG had both ranked in the top 500 in their class. They were drafted one round apart 19th-20th.

Would they have been ranked that high or drafted that high if they didn't have MLB dads? Probably not because that was an important ingredient.

It doesn't mean anything negative to any other player, it just means it is a positive for those kids.

Ryan Ripken is a 6'5"/190... should end up around 225.

Steve Lombradozzi was under 6 foot and weighed about 160. Now listed at 6-0/195.

Steve made his MLB debut last year. This year he has played in 109 games for the Washington Nationals who have the best record in either league.

Seriously there were thousands of high school players with equal or better ability than he had. It was just one thing that made him stand out... make that two things... Desire and Dad. Other than that he was just like thousands of other good high school players and not as talented as the top guys.

I think the advantages go way beyond Genetics. Here's a few off the top of my head.

1. Less likely to be surprised by the things that happen in Pro Ball.

2. More comfortable in the setting of Pro Ball. Less in awe.

3. More likely to know how things work.

4. Better understanding of the game.

5. Better understanding of what is required.

Actually there are many more reasons.

IMO if there are two high school players with equal ability, bet on the one who has a former MLB dad. You will be right more often than you will be wrong. However, you will still be wrong at times.

It's not always what you see now. It's what will be there in the future. Predicting the future is very difficult. You have to use every bit of info available to even come close.

Cal Ripken's son... 6-5/190... Looks the part... Great kid... Tough kid... Competitor... Seems to have a natural talent for making contact... Sounds like he would be worth taking a chance on.

Who cares about his swing. He shouldn't have even been at that event. He had lost 20+ lbs due to sickness right before that event. Yet, he was there! How about that! We didn't even find out until later in the year just how sick he was. Cal spent a lot of time with us in the press box and didn't even say a word about Ryan's condition.

For those who think he was drafted because of his dad... You are correct... But it's not always nepotism... Sometimes it's just worth the chance!

I do need to add one thing.

Sometimes it is pure nepotism. Players do get selected for NO other reason. I've never liked that.

Great post PG

quote:

Originally posted by Doc_K:
Great post PG

True dat! PG didn't owe anyone a discussion of a 20th rounder, yet there it is.

For the person that wrote up his profile on PG that said he has similar hitting mechanics as his father did they mean at the same age ?? That would be interesting to know.

Nice post PG. Realistic honesty is a good thing.

The only thing I’d take issue with, is that of those 5 things you mentioned, and I’m sure there are many others, there’s no reason players of equal or superior skills couldn’t or wouldn’t handle those things just as well if not better, if they had the advantage of “friends” looking out for them and explaining the things their experiences might not cover.

I’ve always been realistic about how nepotism happens, but what’s always bothered me is that so many people attribute it to nature, while its almost always about nurture.

Like others have said, former team mates have nothing but great things to say about Ryan as a player and even more as a person. I heard this weekend while at USC that he is a walk-on this fall. What does that say about USC's desire for him to play there? shouldn't they have offered him a spot? Maybe he could walk on anywhere?