College Game on Saturday-runner on 1st, none out. Batter bunts back to pitcher, and batter is thrown out at first. runner who was on first advances to second base safely, then attempts to advance to third, but is thrown out at third. Scorer called it a double play, and did not credit batter with a SAC, but with an AB?
Batter was obviously NOT trying to bunt for a hit.
How can that be?
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If the scorer wants to call it a DP, that’s fine, and for some maybe even correct. But that has nothing to do with whether or not the batter is credited with a sacrifice. Based on what you’ve said, If he wasn’t, the scorer sucks and it should be changed.
On the same type of play, I've seen poor scorekeepers not give the batter a sac on a bunt where an error is made and the batter is safe although he was obviously sac bunting. It is not the batters fault the defense can't make the play.
The result of the AB and the reason for reaching base are two seperate events, like strike out / advance to first on wild pitch. The batter gets a strike out for his at bat but advances to first on the wild pitch.
In the original discussion, the batter should get a SAC bunt for the result of his at bat because he advanced a runner via a bunt. What happens after that has no effect on the at bat.
Since it was a college game, it was likely scored via computer so its on Gametracker. With these programs, the scorekeeper has to be vigilant to ensure what they're entering is properly reflecting everything that happened. Simply entering 1-3(batter out)-5(runner out) might be 100% correct for, but doesn't properly account for the results of what happened. Properly recording this information takes a lot more work...
It was scored by the SID of a D2 college (not participating in the game).
Here are his replies to me when I questioned the scoring:
Rule 10, Section 15 of the NCAA Baseball Rule Book: A double play or triple play is credited to one or more fielders when a two or three players are out between the time a pitch is delivered and the time the ball next becomes dead or is next in possession of the pitcher in his pitching position.
Sorry. But my ruling stands. Had the runner stopped at second and then tried to advance, I would agree. The runner, however, did not stop at second, but rounded the bag, continuing the flow of the play.
gitnby;
His quote is exactly correct, but as JMoff said, the scorer needs to understand and be careful to annotate everything about the play that complies with the rules. What this bozo has done is quoted only one portion of the rulebook that pertains to only what a DP is. Forget the NCAA rules for a bit and look at OBR which is the foundation of all baseball rules.
Look at the reports required in rule 10.02. You’ll see 10.02(a)(17) requires marking DPs for every batter and runner. 10.02(b)(17) requires marking DPs participated in for every fielder. Also 10.02(f)(17) requires marking players participating in DPs as well. That’s all good because at the end that information will be available.
Now go to 10.02(a)(1)(i) and you’ll see every sacrifice bunt has to also be marked because it determines when an AB should be computed for certain percentages. Also 10.02(a)(10) requires marking sac bunts for each batter and runner, and 10.02(c)(8) requires marking all sacrifice hits allowed for a pitcher.
But the final nail in that scorer’s coffin comes in 10.08. That whole section is about when a sacrifice should be scored, and if you notice, a double play does not negate the need for it to be properly marked. And just in case that guy would say “but NCAA rules apply”, it too has a section 10.8 telling the scorer when to mark a sacrifice.
This is a perfect example of someone who knows just enough about the rules to fool people into believing he’s some kind of expert. When one applies the rules, s/he has to be sure to apply everything that’s pertinent, not to just quit looking after they find the 1st rule that mentions what they’re looking for.
It should obviously be scored a SAC, but even a bigger question; did the kid who got thrown out at third from first on a sac bunt get completely reamed by the coach and then immediately yanked from the game?
It should obviously be scored a SAC, but even a bigger question; did the kid who got thrown out at third from first on a sac bunt get completely reamed by the coach and then immediately yanked from the game?
Probably not, because they'd worked on this play in practice all fall and half the winter and finally got an opportunity when it might've briefly appeared the defense wasn't covering third.
The coach probably drew the conclusion they needed to work on this play more. 
It was scored by the SID of a D2 college (not participating in the game).
Here are his replies to me when I questioned the scoring:
Rule 10, Section 15 of the NCAA Baseball Rule Book: A double play or triple play is credited to one or more fielders when a two or three players are out between the time a pitch is delivered and the time the ball next becomes dead or is next in possession of the pitcher in his pitching position.
Sorry. But my ruling stands. Had the runner stopped at second and then tried to advance, I would agree. The runner, however, did not stop at second, but rounded the bag, continuing the flow of the play.
I would agree with his interpretation if the runner had run directly across the diamond from first to third, forgetting second base.This didn't happen. The runner safely reached second base, so the batter gets a sacrifice. He was then thrown out at third, completing a double play, I agree with this call and would've agreed even if he slowed up and then went.
If you look up double play in the rules, it probably says something about not crediting a sacrifice but in this context those exceptions don't apply. How hard you run after a base has nothing to do with how you got TO the base.
You have to read ALL the rules for ALL the implications to fully assess what rules to apply and how to score it. This one really wasn't that hard.
Scorekeeping is really easy if you do it half a$$ed. It's only slightly more difficult if you try and do it right.
