Sac Fly Strategy

At the high school level I'm not a fan of practicing this. In a 25 - 35 game schedule how many times does this happen where it's winning run on third, IF in and all that? In my 16 years of coaching I've seen it a handful of times. So why practice something you might see once every 3 years?

Maybe you guys see it a lot more than I have but that situation hardly ever. Now runner on third with less than 2 outs happens quite a bit. I still don't like the whole trying to lift a flyball for sacrifice. If it happens then great - it's a productive out. But other than that just go up there looking to hit the ball hard.

Thanks Coach,
Good point on the "winning run" scenario. For further discussion purposes, let's open it up to just less than two outs, late in a close game or a game where runs are a premium.
Others - do you have your hitters thinking "lift/hit a sac fly" or "just hit the ball hard" or ????

Just hit the ball hard.

Hit the ball where it's pitched and make the defense make the play.
Defensively your trying to get a ground ball to the left side. So that usually means something that a RH hitter will roll over and pull to the left side playing in. If the strategy is succesful then R3 will not advance. Tough to lift a ball down around the knees as an example.

Overall it depends on many factors but simply put if I need that run then I'm running some sort of squeeze whether it be suicide or safety. Somebody said in another thread that a suicide squeeze was tough to pull off because it involved several moving parts that had to work together. I agree completely with that but a suicide is easier to do than simply say "hey man go out and get a deep fly ball".

If it's early in the game I will let my guy swing away or if it's a case of where we don't have enough outs to give up one from a squeeze then I will let them swing away.

To me a sac fly is just something productive out of something bad.

Plus freddy and CoachO make great points - take what the pitcher is giving and hit it hard.

All good post, yes it depends on the situation who is up to bat, level of play, (are we talking high school and up or are we talking youth baseball etc...) I am only saying there are coaches that do emphasize this approach in certain situations with less than 2 outs. Problem with a squeeze is that a lot of things can go wrong including losing your winning or tying run at 3rd base if the bunt is botched, popped up, pitch out... If the batter fails to hit the fly ball he could hit a line drive or even a hard ground ball and still be successful, but the hitting approach going to the plate would be to lift it. Many of your better hitters go up to the plate with plan and approach depending on what the circumstances are. If the infield is playing back then a good hitter would try and hit the ball on the ground to the right side to advance the runner or maybe even bunt, depends on who is up. BTW I am a fan of the squeeze play. I have also seen coaches have the hitters during practice work on situational hitting, which a what a fly ball to score a runner is.

I see what you're saying about the squeeze and it's really a difference in philosophies. Nothing wrong with that either. I just don't like having hitters going up there and either changing their swings to try and create more loft or take hittable / driveable pitches looking for one slightly up in the zone to get a flyball.

There are pros and cons for each one and you have to make a decision based on what your team is like, what you know best, feel comfortable with and other things.

quote:

Originally posted by standballdad:
Yes players do try to lift the ball or avoid a ground ball in certain situations. Example, winning runner on third, less than 2 outs infield is playing in, batters job is to at least get the ball in air to the outfield.

Against batting practice pitching (slow/non-deceptive/low-pressure-situation), I can see HS players lifting the ball with some consistency, in a situational BP.

Against game pitching (fast/deceptive) in a high-pressure-game-situation, my hunch is more often than not you get a better result by NOT asking a normal HS batter to alter his hitting mantra, whatever that might be (hit it where it's pitched; or, get a good ball to hit; or, close your eyes and swing as hard as you can; etc.).

While I want the same result that everybody does, I believe I get it less if I introduce THINKING into the batter's box in high pressure situations.

Also, in the situation described--one out,winning run on third, the infield AND outfield would be playing in), a flyball doesn't necessarily score a run; and a ground ball isn't chopped liver--it has a good probability of getting through, or being too far to the side of an IF, or being mis-played under the pressure of R3 being the game-winner.

quote:

Against game pitching (fast/deceptive) in a high-pressure-game-situation, my hunch is more often than not you get a better result by NOT asking a normal HS batter to alter his hitting mantra, whatever that might be (hit it where it's pitched; or, get a good ball to hit; or, close your eyes and swing as hard as you can; etc.).

Do you have stats that support this? I was just responding to the original post and giving my viewpoint on the matter. Some coaches do tell their hitters to TRY and do this when the situation arises, are they always successful? of course not. Is this the only approach to scoring that run? NO, as stated earlier it depends on a lot of different factors. Why do some very successful high school and D1 programs teach this? even professional hitters try and do this in certain situations? I totally disagree with you on one thing, hitters need to go to the plate thinking and have a plan in mind when hitting. If you are talking about very young hitters then I would agree with you. IMHO

The strategy involved in hitting a sac fly or even hitting a ground ball to 2B is to look for a pitch that will give you the best chance to accomplish the job. Certain pitches and locations give you a better chance at success.

When hitting a ground ball to the right side is the goal, you might change your preferred hitting zone enough to best accomplish this. This is a situation where you might look for something on the outside rather than the inside edge. However, if your a RHH good pitchers are more likely to throw you inside in that situation in order to get you to pull the ball to the left side.

PGStaff - Nice reply, agree with everything you said. If you know the pitcher is going to work you inside then you would look for something there with less than 2 strikes. As I said in my earlier post, have a plan before you get to the plate and it is okay to look for a pitch in a certain hitting zone (its called thinking) in certain situations.

Winning run on third, one out, infield/outfield in.

I'm in the 3B coaching box.

I like our chances if we hit the ball hard anywhere.

My batter is pumping adrenaline.

Assuming I don't want to squeeze-- do I confer with the batter and suggest that he look for a ball that he can lift? (standballdad, I'm not implying that you suggested this).

Personally, I don't. That plays into the hands of the pitcher. He's the one who is in trouble. The defense is at Little League depth. Any hard hit ball has a great chance. Why risk taking my pumped-up batter out his normal comfort zone by suggesting that he zone a pitch that he can lift? Let him hit with his own plan--which might be...looking for pitch he can lift.

IOW, when the entire defense is at Little League depth, stand back and stay out of your batter's head. Not disagreeing with situational hitting. Just saying that in the exact situation described, it may be over-thinking.

Throw the FB on the plate and the BB off the plate (down) and make him beat you with hard stuff (harder to elevate).....

Thanks guys, lots of good feedback!

Overall I'm with freddy in that this could create too much thinking while in the box. The idea is that you're looking for a pitch that's up in the zone but you can't guarantee that you will get one. Basically for the strategy of looking to hit a sac fly is based on hoping the pitcher makes a mistake. The pitcher knows (unless the team is horrible) he wants to keep the ball low in the zone. So if he does elevate it then it's a mistake but he's going to be hitting the bottom part of the zone which is still hittable.

So do you take that 1-0 fastball that's getting a little too much of the plate on the outside corner that will make it 1-1 on the hopes you get a high pitch? I say no - knock the living bejeezus out of it and let it play out. I don't want to let my hitter get in the hole a strike or two hoping he sees a high fastball. Also, what if during the entire game the pitcher has pounded the bottom half of the zone? You can't take the chance he's going to make a mistake because he basically hasn't all day.

To me a sac fly is something you work on as a baserunner and not a hitter. As you're taking BP have runners on the bases and work on recognizing flyballs to tag and go on. We're (meaning my team) not going to spend time in BP trying to create lift to hit flyballs. I just see that as a wasted cut.

At the pro level and major college level yeah I can see teaching this and working on this but at the high school level you won't get the same reward for effort. In a 25 - 35 game season it's not worth seeing hundreds of BP pitches lifting flyballs when you might see it once a season. In a college / pro season of 55 - hundreds of games then the situation will present itself more and needs to be worked on.

Then you have skill level - the average high school hitter will not be able to learn this because the chances of him playing college are slim. The reason why the chance of him playing college is slim is because he doesn't have the skill set to move on to the next level. I can teach that kid to hit the ball hard where it's pitched but he probably won't get the look for this pitch and hit a flyball skill.

But this is still a philosophy situation. I will never tell the people who teach this they are wrong because it's a legitimate skill. Now I will debate with them like we are now but I won't say they are wrong.

The only thought should be hit the ball hard! Simplify...

If you try to do to much, most of the time it will not happen.

Lefty...

I can understand every ones opinion on this topic. I did notice that most of the replies (except one) did not come from SOCAL. Its clear that the level of baseball is much stronger in SOCAL since we do teach our players to take their hitting to the next level when required. JK

LOL, I have a feeling you may have just revived the thread
Thanks for allowing me to use your post as the topic starter. I like when topics get debate on both sides - usually results in more depth of discussion and more learning for me

quote:

Originally posted by standballdad:
I can understand every ones opinion on this topic. I did notice that most of the replies (except one) did not come from SOCAL. Its clear that the level of baseball is much stronger in SOCAL since we do teach our players to take their hitting to the next level when required. JK

We just teach our kids to hit a homerun in these situations so you score more than one run.

"We just teach our kids to hit a homerun in these situations so you score more than one run."

Only in SOCAL baby!