SAT/Grades questions from a newbie

You're going to have to do some legwork.

Identify the colleges he is interested in, and look at what scores are required for admission.

Send letters of interest to the baseball coach and he will help you determine their level of interest and ability to attend based on grades.

First thing they always ask is what is your gpa and test scores.

Consider some SAT training. Also consider the ACT. Most colleges accept both. And they test differently.

Hi, tigerdad,

Welcome. As a northeasterner who had to let the car warm up and scrape the windows this morning, I am always surprised that someone from the warmer parts of the country would want to come up here, but then again, its a beautiful part of the country.

With regard to the PSAT vs SAT score, you need to keep in mind that the SAT has an essay component that the PSAT does not have. Beyond that, if you want to know what kind of scores your son would need for any particular college, you can usually find that info on the school's website. Check the admissions tabs. The info may be under FAQ's or "student body profile" or something similar, but generally its a breakdown of the SAT, GPA, class rank, etc of the incoming freshman class. You'll find some variation between schools because while some are really, REALLY stringent on academic achievement, others stress good academics as part of a well-rounded individual (activities, community service, athletics, leadership qualities, etc).

Poke around the websites some. I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for.

Good luck.

Peformance on the PSAT is usually a pretty good indicator of how the student will do on the SAT during the spring of his junior year. Exceptions exist, of course.

Most schools, even those priding themselves on academic selectivity, will show some preference for athletes (although they will try to hide that fact).

As other posters have commented, you are just going to have to do your homework. Check out the school websites. Talk to the coaches.

Good luck to your son. Sounds like he should be in good shape.

Baseball can help a borderline student get into some schools.... it depends on the school. This is a great site for info on particular schools. You can also do a search based on criteria, including GPA's, etc.

http://collegeboard.com/splash/

What is your son interested in studying? That needs to be your first consideration. It sounds like your son has very good grades and should do well on the SAT.

Most schools will allow athletes entrance with a lower SAT score. Harvard recruited my son for football and he only needed an 1100 on the SAT. He wanted to play baseball and it took him 3 tries to break 1000, so Harvard was definately out!!!

Just be advised that baseball takes up a TON of a student's time. If your son is looking for D-1 and a tough major, it's going to be very hard. He may want to think of a mid level D-1 program to allow more time for his studies rather than a top baseball school.

quote:

Originally posted by pfbear13:
Just be advised that baseball takes up a TON of a student's time. If your son is looking for D-1 and a tough major, it's going to be very hard. He may want to think of a mid level D-1 program to allow more time for his studies rather than a top baseball school.

I don't think it is safe to assume that only top D1 programs require a lot of time for baseball. From what I have seen, there is little difference in the time required whether it be JUCO, D3, D2 or D1.

My son is a 2007 who did much better on the SAT than he did the PSAT. He thought he did not take the PSAT seriously enough.

He did alright the 1st time he took the SAT with not much extra studying - Did the College Board Question of the Day some. Due to being busy with baseball, he had private tutoring instead of a group class for his 2nd time he took the SAT - and his score went down! We were bummed! He just took it for the 3rd time so we'll see what happens! We'll be glad when this part of the college application process is over! There is academic money out there for good SAT scores that he is going for....

He probably should have taken the ACT also.

Every school will tell you what they are looking for in SAT & GPA scores as the other posters have said. The schools we were talking too were just interested in the Math & Reading portion - not taking into consideration the new writing portion for the 2007's. But every school is different.

Couple of "facts" about the SAT (recently sat in on a presentation made by our HS Guidance Director):
- Remember that if your son takes the SAT multiple times, most schools will take the best score of each SECTION.
- Because the essay part of the SAT is so new, many schools are not basing admissions decisions on them. Why? It is so new, and there is no data to compare current performance (relatively speaking).
CAUTION: I am only sharing what our guidance director shared with us. He specifically stated that UVA, VA Tech and William & Mary are not making admissions decisions based on the essay part of the SAT, for the reasons I previously mentioned.

Good advice. My advice is to get copy of the GPA/SAT/ACT scale from the clearinghouse.

Then set out to do your homework about school admissions requirements of the schools your son is interested in attending. And remember a lot also depends upon whether the scholarship comes in the form of academic or baseball money.

Some coaches at many schools are able to skirt around the requirements, usually if it is a player they feel that will make an impact in his program and be able to handle the academic requirements as well. Do not always assume that a lower SAT will get you in. It might, but the GPA most likely has to be pretty high for harder academic programs, such as the ones you mentioned.

Everyone, thanks so much for all the input!

there are just so many things to learn and you hate to learn by making a mistake!
we will identify some schools and review the admission ranges. Is the lower end of the range acceptable if the coach is interested in my son?? Also, maybe with a SAT review course or tutor he can improve???

There is a poster that knows tons about grades, SAT's that will probably chime in soon. He told me about a great college website, www.collegeconfidential.com that has tons of info about every college imaginable. Go to the discussion boards and you can find out anything you need to know. There is a link to the common data sets of most colleges. This lists the average gpa, SAT's, etc. of the incoming freshmen class. Lots of valuable info to see where your son fits academically.

Most likey, your son can raise his SAT 1 score by studying or taking a test prep course. Good luck, keep reading this site and you'll learn tons!!

Tiger - Not sure about Fla., but Ca. state colleges and universities use a formula based on a minimum gpa (3.0 for university) and SAT score - Essentially, the higher the gpa, the lower your SAT can be, or the higher your SAT, the lower the gpa can be. My advice is to go to the website of each college you are interested in - check the "student profile" which will give you an average SAT score and high school gpa. You can then project where your player may be. Let's face it, it's one thing to get in because he can play baseball, but it's another thing to stay there or stay eligible. As for interpreting PSAT scores, there is a multiplier/formula that will project what your SAT score will actually be. Go to the PSAT website, or consult the info guide you received with your PSAT packet to tell you the exact multiplier. Another way to tell is to see how many colleges send you info after you receive your PSAT score. My daughter did well, and it seemed like she got letters soliciting applications from every major college in the nation.

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After having read many of the postings over the past few months about grades, scores, et al, I wish to comment on a couple of aspects.

1) Kids, work hard on your grades. You can be a 6.4 40YD, and hit a ball 500 feet, but if you have a 2.8GPA, "you won't get into CAL".

2) SAT prep courses DO WORK. One of the cadKids brought their score up 200 points. A lot of this has to do with learning how to take standardized tests, how to eliminate bad choices (in answers).

3) I was criticized for years at the amount of money we spent as a family on travel ball (which many times were family vacations in disguise), private hitting instruction, etc. Some often said to me that I could've easily paid for college "in the drive to help the kids get a scholarship". They missed the point completely. I could've cared less about the scholarship financially. Baseball taught both the cadKids team work, leadership, mental and physical toughness, and how to balance time management, and make priorities in their lives. Playing for Norcal, they learned RESPECT, for the game and those around them. Both got into schools that never would have accepted them, simply as book rats. Baseball helped both of them get into the school of their choice.

Are standards lowered for athletes? Some will say yes (I don't)... where mine go to school, they evaluated grades with the time and effort it took to excel as an athlete, and knew that grades would certainly suffer some. Leadership and competitive spirit made up for more than a "couple of tenths" in GPA.

4) Do you need to understand the time and effort it takes to play competitive athletics in college and get good grades?

YES

And you must be TOTALLY committed to both.



Along these lines, I interviewed a young woman y'day for a junior management position in our company. I noticed on her resume (CV), that she played D1 basketball, and got a 3.3GPA in a fairly tough curriculum.

She starts Monday morning...

And it DID have to do with my choice of this individual.

Life is not a Breakfast Cereal.


cadDAD

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Orcas (killer whales) kill sharks by torpedoing up into the shark's stomach from underneath, causing the shark to explode.

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Just to reiterate what Academy Dad said, SAT prep courses absolutely do work. I am a 2007 graduate and I was really surprised at all of the helpful hints and strategies that the people teaching the courses can offer, such as how to pace yourself, whether you should guess at questions when you can narrow answers down, stuff like that. A couple people mentioned the ACT, and I would definitely consider looking into it. I personally felt it was slightly easier than the SAT, but that's just my opinion. Good luck!

Brod,

If you go back to the original post, the player is interested in attending school out of state. There were also schools mentioned he might be interested in, IVY League, etc. The post did not mention attending a state school.

I know that many years ago when son was being recruited by an IVY league school, his GPA and baseball ability most definetly would get him in, but his SAT scores were questionable and they were well in the "acceptable" range for most schools.

Frank, you have a PM

Here are some tips that were given to me before I took the SAT IIs recently as well as the ACT.

With SATs, time usually is not as big of a factor as ACT, and the most important thing you can do is learn to narrow answers down and cancel out things you know aren't right. I was told that if you can narrow it down to two or even three, guessing is worth the slight penalty, which I think is a fourth or a third of a point.
On reading passages, it is a good idea to underline topic sentences in paragraphs, which often end up being the first sentence of the paragraph. Many times the questions will come straight from these sentences. Never start at the questions and look for answers before looking at the passage, as this ends up taking more time.

The ACT is a completey different ball game as you are VERY pressed for time, especially on the reading and science sections. For many people, finishing the reading is impossible, as you have to read four passages and answer questions in something like 25 minutes. Because I was one of these people, I was told to look at the four passages I was given right away for the first 30 seconds and then select the ones I found easiest to read and read those first. With the science, you are given many charts and graphs, usually with paragraph long descriptions. Unlike with the reading, I went straight to the questions with the science, as you are often given meaningless information inside the graphs or in the descriptions.

People have many different strategies for test taking, and the ones I described was what helped me the most. It is certainly not the only way to be successful. I hope this helps anyone planning on taking either tests soon.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jhs tigerdad:

i just dont know if it takes a 1300+ to get into a Villanova, Patriot league or Ivy regardless if you are a decent baseball player...QUOTE]

You might want to go to your bookstore and pick up a copy of U.S. News & World Report of Americas Best Colleges. This book will give you a great amount of information related to the schools makeup. (national ranking, class size, in-state and out of state cost, sat /act requirements, as well as type of degrees they offer) I believe they have an online version as well.

I have found this book to be a great point of reference in researching schools that might be a good fit. (thanks for the heads up on this one Mildo Dad)

This whole college application process seems to be a complete crapshoot. My son has friends who have 3.8-4.0 GPA and 1400+ on their SAT's and did not get into Ivy League schools. However, he also has a friend who plays hockey, had a 3.5 GPA and 1300 SAT and got into Harvard.
Another friend is at Villanova, got in with 1350 on her SAT's and a 4.0 GPA (without a sport)I think it also depends on where you come from, and how many kids apply to each school. We live in a highly competitive area of CT. and the smart kids (over 60% of our HS is on the honor roll) all apply to the same schools. I would think that if a kid from another state applied to a school in the northeast he may well get in with lower GPA and scores, especially with a sport. My son had 1190 on his SAT's (and baseball) and didn't get to the schools he wanted. However, he is very happy (and so are we) at the small Div 3 school he attends and he is playing baseball at a good program. All I can say is SAT's seem to be very important, get all the tutoring you can and take it as many times as you can. It will pay off.

I think you are correct in that alot depends on where the student is from. No offense meant to anyone fron anywhere, but a 4.0 in a small HS in say Mississippi or Arkansas (where I met my wife and my son was born) is not going to compare to a 3.5 from most schools in CT or NY. That's why so many schools use the SAT and ACT scores.

I'm very surprised that your son's friends had problems with such high GPA's and 1400+ on the SAT.

JHStigerdad, I noticed you said you were new to the HSBBW,..and while you are getting alot of good advice from our posters ( they always come through! ) about your SAT question, I'd thought I'd also send you a welcome!!

You've brought up a good question thats inspired alot of discussion. I have confidence in our posters to get you the answers you were looking for! In the meantime,..feel free to prop your feet up and stay a while!

Thanks everybody for the welcome and awesome info..i can't thank everyone enough

btbb
son is a 2008 rhp
he got a 1110 on the psat(just recieved the results last week 580 math and 530 reading?)

i assumed it somewhat translates to the old SAT( the psat doesn't have the writing section)
son has a good gpa/3.5 at a very good academic high school but we are a little worried about the test score. Many have suggested review courses and tutoring, which we will cetainly look into. Wishfull thinking has him going north to a fine academic school and possibly baseball. Also, we are not as familiar with the ACT and its exceptance as its is not as popular here in florida.
I guess its obvious that our hard work is just beginning!!!