Scholarship blending and 3.5 GPA

I don't have the answer to your question, but it's a really good one. Thank you for starting this thread.

Can you (or someone else) clarify the "Rank in the upper 10%, or Achieve a core-course GPA of at least 3.5 on 4.0" criteria?

Is it upper 10% of the player's graduating high school class? That is my first assumption, but you know what they say about assumptions...

Do you know where to find a definition of 'core-courses'? Is it listed on the NCAA Clearinghouse website somewhere? 

Not trying to hijack the thread, but I thought it would be great to have all this info in one, recent thread.  

Our son took ap, there is some value there and in honors perhaps.  Check with the registrar or school counselor on how colleges look at them or call particular college.  Pretty sure high school should figure this into students gpa if applicable.  

Not that anyone does not have the answer but, you really want a person, that deals with this on a professional level give you these answers.

A financial aid office might be able to help, send an email. NCAA might clarify for you.

JLC - I'd bet you've already done this but reach out to your sons HS, as I suspect the answer is different in different counties/states.

For example, in my sons High School/County (Fulton, GA) they use CNA (Cumulative Numeric Average) versus GPA as the standard.  For Honors & AP courses, 7 points are added to their course grade & for AP courses only they add .5 to the GPA for the course.

Re: upper 10%....  I wish!!!  We're fortunate that our son is very driven academically, and so is his school, but his counselor told me that Top-20% had a CNA = 95.  For my 2018, they also told me they don't do class ranking until junior year.

Probably can find much of what you are looking for here:

http://www.ncaa.org/student-at.../grade-point-average

Be very very careful!  I started this thread last year and it has a lot of good information:

http://community.hsbaseballweb...94#24101622050809494

The biggest take away is that every HS and every College seems to have different ideas about GPA's.  What you are talking about is a "weighted" GPA vs. an "unweighted" GPA, but even there it doesn't stop.  Some colleges count Gym class as much as they count Math class while others eliminate it from the GPA entirely.  Pick one school and talk to the guidance counselor about THAT school.  Most GC's usually have spread sheets on individual colleges and what they allow and don't allow in calculating a players GPA.

I am envious of people with good high school counselors that have the answers to these questions. My daughter, a senior, has had a different counselor every year of high school. There is so much turn over and they are usually very new to the role, so they really don't have the information. It's almost impossible to meet with someone who is not your assigned counselor. On top of it all, my kid's new counselor this year does not speak English very well (no judgment, just a fact of the situation) so it's hard to communicate. My daughter was trying to tell her that she lacked a graduation requirement  and needed a specific technology class for second semester in order to graduate. It took several months to get that across. Count your lucky stars if you have someone with the education and expertise to help you through this process. For the rest of us, we will muddle through the process with the help of forums like this and by calling the NCAA if it comes to that.

My son is in the top 10% of his class (they rank starting Freshman year) and they provide both weighted (to account for honors classes which are on a 5.0 scale) and unweighted gpas. As CaCo stated above, most recalculate based on their own criteria. The NCAA has a different criteria that may coincide with how your high school calcualtes or not. That's why the 10% or the SAT score criteria seem a little more tangible to me.

JLC posted:

In D1, in order to be able to have any merit/academic money, in addition to baseball money, without it counting toward the allotted scholarships,  a student has to meet one of the three following criteria:  Rank in the upper 10%, or Achieve a core-course GPA of at least 3.5 on 4.0, or SAT score of 1200 minimum (M and CR)

Does anyone know, as it relates to this rule, do I get to add a .5 to my son's GPA since everyone of his core courses is an honors course?   Since it says on 4.0 scale, not sure if he gets credit for honors or not..I'm confused.

 

If you go to the link that Keewart posted, you can find your high school's list of NCAA approved core courses. In order for them to weight the AP courses, the school has to let the NCAA know that specific courses should be weighted. In looking at the course list for our high school, I see that none of the AP courses are listed as weighted, so kids won't get credit for taking them in their NCAA calculated gpa.

For an example of a fairly transparent merit aid calculator: go to Linfield's website: http://www.linfield.edu/financ...tudents/fa-calc.html

We used it and it was pretty darn close to what son rec'd. Note: the amount may include employment earnings (not work study money so no FAFSA required).

Can someone provide a link the the NCAA site/page that provides the actual requirements (outlined above) for academic monies to not count against the athletic money/scholarship cap?  I cannot find it on any of the major links on the NCAA website and can only assume it is somewhat buried in some fine print.  Read a summary on a commercial site that also quoted ACT sum score of 105 as a fifth potential requirement that could trigger the funds not counting against the athletic money/scholarship cap.  Also read that if program was not fully funded, then the academic money would count against the 11.7, but there could be plenty of room to accommodate if the program, as an example, only funded 10.

This is where I learned of that rule.  It isn't a link to the NCAA but it is a link to the exact bylaw in the NCAA regulation http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/scholarship_blending.htm

You're looking at a link that's 13 years old...I'm just not sure this is true anymore...perhaps Rick at Informed Athlete can weigh in...

During our process, there were many schools that offered academic money based solely on ACT/SAT scores and/or GPA, with the amount rising the higher the scores/GPA were, but it certainly wasn't based on meeting the criteria you're pointing out...his school doesn't even do class ranking, for example.

I'm thinking we need to keep this thread active until someone is able to come forward with some definitive information.  I assumed I misunderstood the rules when I read the OP - would hate for the rules spelled out by the OP to no longer be applicable.  This site does an excellent job providing clarity on issues and I hope someone really knowledgeable can provide a summery of current rules and, if appropriate, perhaps some history (if in fact the OP rules are ancient history).

Man, I'm really glad they AREN'T applicable--hardly anyone would be getting academic money...

Here is the section from the 2015-2016 NCAA Division 1 Handbook. Students must meet ONE of the criteria listed to potentially be an exception to the financial aid rule.

15.5.3.2.4.1 Academic Honor Awards—Based on High School Record. Academic honor awards that are part of an institution’s normal arrangements for academic scholarships, based solely on the recipient’s high school record and awarded independently of athletics interests and in amounts consistent with the pattern of all such awards made by institutions, are exempt from an institution’s equivalency computation, provided the recipient was ranked in the upper 10 percent of the high school graduating class or achieved a cumulative grade-point average of at least 3.500 (based on a maximum of 4.000) or a minimum ACT sum score of 105 or a minimum SAT score of 1200 (critical reading and math). (Adopted: 1/12/99 effective 8/1/99, Revised: 1/14/08 effective 8/1/08, 1/16/10 effective 8/1/10)

15.5.3.2.4.1.1 Additional Requirements. The following additional requirements shall be met: (Adopted: 1/12/99 effective 8/1/99, 1/18/14 effective 8/1/14)

(a) The awards may include additional, nonacademic criteria (e.g., interviews, essays, need analysis), provided the additional criteria are not based on athletics ability, participation or interests, and the awards are consistent with the pattern of all such awards provided to all students;

(b) No quota of awards shall be designated for student-athletes;

(c) Athletics participation shall not be required before or after collegiate enrollment;

(d) No athletics department staff member shall be involved in designating the recipients of such awards; and

(e) Any additional criteria shall not include athletics ability, participation or interests.

15.5.3.2.4.1.2 Renewals. The renewal of an academic honor award (per Bylaw 15.5.3.2.4.1) may be exempted from an institution’s equivalency computation regardless of whether the recipient qualified for exemption in his or her initial academic year enrollment, provided: (Adopted:1/12/99 effective 8/1/99, Revised: 3/18/10)

(a) The recipient achieves a cumulative grade-point average of at least 3.000 (based on a maximum of 4.000) at the certifying institution; and

(b) The recipient meets all NCAA, conference and institutional progress-toward-degree requirements.

http://www.ncaapublications.co...ownloads/D116OCT.pdf

So John Doe. who is being recruited by Northwestern State University of the Southeast, is in the top 17 percent of his graduating class with a 3.4 GPA, and scored 29 on his ACT, with a sum total of 104. Amid the hundreds of flyers filling his mailbox everyday, encouraging him to apply to their schools, is one from NSU--SE, saying that because he has a 29 ACT, he's eligible for $3,000 in academic money.

 NSU--SE offers John a 30 percent baseball scholarship--which, at the school's annual cost of attendance of $30,000, means he'll still have $21,000 left to pay.

Mr. and Mrs. Doe, while fretting about that remaining balance, take some comfort in the fact that because of his fine academic work, after little Johnny applies and is accepted by NSU--SE, it's going to be reduced by another $3,000...

Not so fast, says the HSBBW, which alternatively raises up and crashes down the hopes and dreams of the Moms and Dads of 11U superstars all across this great land of ours...

Rick....Please????

I have no dog in this fight, just find it fascinating--and it's something that really should be spelled out as accurately as possible.

washrinserepeat posted:

So John Doe. who is being recruited by Northwestern State University of the Southeast, is in the top 17 percent of his graduating class with a 3.4 GPA, and scored 29 on his ACT, with a sum total of 104. Amid the hundreds of flyers filling his mailbox everyday, encouraging him to apply to their schools, is one from NSU--SE, saying that because he has a 29 ACT, he's eligible for $3,000 in academic money.

 NSU--SE offers John a 30 percent baseball scholarship--which, at the school's annual cost of attendance of $30,000, means he'll still have $21,000 left to pay.

Mr. and Mrs. Doe, while fretting about that remaining balance, take some comfort in the fact that because of his fine academic work, after little Johnny applies and is accepted by NSU--SE, it's going to be reduced by another $3,000...

Not so fast, says the HSBBW, which alternatively raises up and crashes down the hopes and dreams of the Moms and Dads of 11U superstars all across this great land of ours...

Rick....Please????

 

 

 

 

I am not Rick, nor an expert in this arena, but I think in the above example if John Doe does receive $9,000 athletic aid + $3,000 merit money, it is great for the parents!  It will be $12,000 total off John Doe's bill.  It is the baseball department that needs to apply the $3,000 to their 11.7 total dollar amount (so they don't go over).  

Baseball programs LOVE high academic players receiving merit money not applied to their 11.7.   Leaves more money for the program to spread around.

"It is the baseball department that needs to apply the $3,000 to their 11.7 total dollar amount (so they don't go over)..."

Then wouldn't that be $12,000 in baseball money, not $9,000 in baseball aid and $3,000 in merit?

I totally agree with your last sentence--merit money definitely helps the baseball coaches get the players they want by spreading the money around--which is why I'm having a hard time believing you can't get any unless those conditions mentioned above are met.

At my son's school, if you take an honors course, you add .5.  So if he got a B in Calculus, you average in for his gpa, a 3.5, not just a 3.0 (for a B).  APs add on points too.

Smoltzie29 posted:

At my son's school, if you take an honors course, you add .5.  So if he got a B in Calculus, you average in for his gpa, a 3.5, not just a 3.0 (for a B).  APs add on points too.

Most colleges recalculate all GPAs to make them uniform or compare only unweighted numbers in terms of admission and merit aid.

I have seen some minor academic awards that include GPA's of less than 3.5.  What is the penalty to a program if the coach micro manages his athletic money right up to 11.7 and then some of this academic money slips in?  Anyone seen a program that for any reason happened to exceed the maximum - and if so, what are the penalties?

Also, have seen lots of comments about getting grades in order and have seen the 3.5 GPA auoted a few times - seems this particular requirement might be the easiest to reach.  Class rank in top 10% can get super competitive and the ACT sum score of 105 is no walk in the park.  Player has more direct control over GPA.

KANDKFUNK - thanks for the posting the exact language and citing the source - huge step in helping to provide clarity.

This makes it more clear as to why so many people stress getting good grades. Not only does it look good to the coaches, but it can literally mean the difference in thousands of dollars in academic aid or nothing.

I think the language is pretty straight forward and it looks like the rule has been very consistent for many years. The only thing still a little fuzzy to me is who and how the gpa is calculated. As we all know, every high school seems to do this differently (you can look at this thread and see many different ways of accounting for AP classes). Since this is an NCAA rule, I'm thinking it's a 3.5+ based on the NCAA calculated gpa. Although my son has a 3.75 gpa at his school, when I calculated it based on the acceptable NCAA courses at his high school, his gpa came out to 5.58. Barely above the threshold. We had a nice discussion last night about getting a few more A's in core courses. Luckily, he still has lots of time to solidify that.

It really depends on the school you are applying to.  Son was only interested in a couple of schools if he wasn't playing baseball.  Private, that we looked at, gave large amounts for higher GPAs or tests scores and if you keep your grades up they are  for every year. Covered about 50% tuition.  The smaller state school did not cover 50%.

They all have a number of scholarships some are departmental, state school offered one of these.

Check what your target schools offer.

First off, thanks to David for tweeting at me to join in this discussion. Regarding KandKFunk's fuzziness about the GPA calculation, I'll provide some insight directly from the NCAA rationale statement.  The "short answer" is that you use the cumulative GPA as determined by the HS.  The GPA calculation was changed from the original "core course GPA" because early academic certification after just six semesters of HS (prior to a final HS transcript) was going to cause problems with that.

Rationale: Based on the approval of the early certification waiver process for 2007-08 and the potential adoption of a separate legislative proposal that would establish an exception for an early academic certification, prospective student-athletes who are certified early will not have a final core-course grade-point average calculated by the NCAA Eligibility Center. Establishing the cumulative high school grade-point average as a criterion of the academic honor award exemption will allow institutions to determine whether a prospective student-athlete meets the grade-point average prong of the legislation based on the final high school transcript. This legislative change would apply to all prospective student-athletes, not just those who are deemed qualifiers after six semesters. Finally, all other criteria related to exempting the academic honor award (e.g., based solely on the high school record) will remain applicable. 

If it uses the GPA from the HS that stinks for my kids lol. I was hoping they would weight it. Their HS doesn't weight GPA or class rank. My son has all honers or duel enrollment classes but three all through HS but his class rank is up against kids who take remedial English and shop for 4 years SMH. 

what's wrong with taking shop....I take shop..........sorry, I had to throw in that movie quote.

Rick at Informed Athlete posted:

First off, thanks to David for tweeting at me to join in this discussion. Regarding KandKFunk's fuzziness about the GPA calculation, I'll provide some insight directly from the NCAA rationale statement.  The "short answer" is that you use the cumulative GPA as determined by the HS.  The GPA calculation was changed from the original "core course GPA" because early academic certification after just six semesters of HS (prior to a final HS transcript) was going to cause problems with that.

Rationale: Based on the approval of the early certification waiver process for 2007-08 and the potential adoption of a separate legislative proposal that would establish an exception for an early academic certification, prospective student-athletes who are certified early will not have a final core-course grade-point average calculated by the NCAA Eligibility Center. Establishing the cumulative high school grade-point average as a criterion of the academic honor award exemption will allow institutions to determine whether a prospective student-athlete meets the grade-point average prong of the legislation based on the final high school transcript. This legislative change would apply to all prospective student-athletes, not just those who are deemed qualifiers after six semesters. Finally, all other criteria related to exempting the academic honor award (e.g., based solely on the high school record) will remain applicable. 

Happy you could join in Rick

David