Scholarship vs. Non-Scholarship Players

It sounds in this situation as if the coach is asking, "will the player take one for the team", meaning, let him keep his scholarships for players that really need it. This happened while one school that was recruiting my son as a pitcher, was at the same time recruiting the son of a wealthy family as a catcher. In that scenario, the catcher was a stud, and the coach assured the family that scholarship money had nothing to do with the opportunities their son would be given. This is the only real world example I have on the subject and it supports my hypthesis, that college coaches make most decisions based on who the best player is. There can be mitigating circumstances, such as when a coach does something to "season" a young player, giving him some experience where he's looking at the future and not neccisarily this moment.

On my sons college team, I have seen walk on players start in front of recruited players. Although everyone at juniors school is on scholarship, some are heavily recruited, some lightly, and some not at all. I have seen where some players seem to have been given more chances than others, but then again, perhaps the coaches see something in the player being given more chances that my untrained eye doesn't.

Go to the "College Baseball/Economy" thread and this is discussed in depth.

quote:

Originally posted by baseball168:
Recently this issue has come up with one of my son's teammates, as a school has been asking him if he would need money to attend the school (his parents are relatively wealthy).

My question is whether colleges truly play the best players, as most coaches say, or whether they play the scholarship players (at least give them the opportunity)? It makes sense that coaches want to get the most out of their investment, but I know they want to win. I'm sure most coaches would eventually play the non-scholarship player if he continued to out-perform the scholarship player, but I was just wondering how this affects players and how they are treated differently based on this.

This was discussed in the thread regarding scholarships/economy.

Obviously, this is happening and most likely will be more and more of a consideration as time goes on if our economy does not improve. Coaches will take into consideration who can afford the tuition and who cannot when asking players to come play at his program and give out scholarships accordingly. This will have to be a decision of the player and his parents who will be footing the bill.

This has nothing to do with over recruiting.

Bottom line is the coach plays the best players, with or without scholarship.

If you want an example, take my player, on almost a full scholarship, he certainly didn't get the weekend start over those getting less, he had to earn it and it took 2 years to do so. He was more or less a seasoned player, not put into the role until he was ready.

I just don't understand this "bite the bullet" mentality.....

Do schools do a full disclosure background check on a parents financial's prior to an offer being made?

When a player has multiple schools in the equation, which many do, why would a coach throw this idle threat toward a family if he really wanted the player, or are we talking about the "take it or leave it" variety type player in which case I would question the how bad is the kid wanted.

I guess I question this because our family finances were never brought up or divulged before an offers were put on the table.

rz1
I agree ---most coaches won't broach the subject---if the family has a financial need situation they will bring it up in the discussion

My attitude was --- lets see what they offer and then we do what we have to---if they want my son bad enough they will jump into the fray and do what they can

Who said anything about biting the bullet?
Where in this post did anyone say it was a take it or leave it? The poster said they were asked if they could afford school? I do remember UM asking if we could afford their tuition. I do remember Clemson asking son if their offer would be affordable coming from out of state? I am going to assume that this is sometimes asked.
I did say that this is a family's decision.

The landscape has changed since our kids were being recruited. Coaches now must give at least 25% and only allowed to give it to 27 max, whereas before they could stretch it out, 20% here, 50% there, 10% here, etc. most coaches giving out as little as they have to, even the larger D1 schools.

I do beleive in the questionaire there is a section asked what are your parents occupation. Not too difficult for a coach to figure this out.

Well fellows,trust me the coaches ask about financial situations. You may not here it,but sometimes the HS coaches are asked simple question: will he need money to attend?.You are absolutely wrong if you think schools that cost 45,000 a year do not know these things.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Who said anything about biting the bullet?

A few posts back you said

quote:

Coaches will take into consideration who can afford the tuition and who cannot when asking players to come play at his program and give out scholarships accordingly. This will have to be a decision of the player and his parents who will be footing the bill.

quote:

tpm quote:
I do beleive in the questionaire there is a section asked what are your parents occupation. Not too difficult for a coach to figure this out.

quote:

Originally posted by fanofgame:
Well fellows,trust me the coaches ask about financial situations. You may not here it,but sometimes the HS coaches are asked simple question: will he need money to attend?.You are absolutely wrong if you think schools that cost 45,000 a year do not know these things.

They know

Assumptions may be made but unless they ask for a release of financial information, they don't know squat, let alone what numbers to base a scholly amount on. I drive a beautiful caddy but when the gas was $4/'gal I was taking the bus. Where does that put me on "needs" scale.

TPM

I have 5 questionnaires in front of me which go in the mail in the morning and not ONE of them has a section titled parents occupation !!!!


And they are for major D-I programs

I can definately say from personal experience that one high profile private D1 college in CA DID ask our coach if we could afford his school!!!

However, the college my son ended up at never asked our hs coach that question and without us asking, went to the admissions dept to see if our son was eligible for a merit scholarship. It was a nice surprise that when he called and offered the baseball scholly he also said admissions would have an academic scholarship for him.

quote:

Originally posted by CaBB:
I can definately say from personal experience that one high profile private D1 college in CA DID ask our coach if we could afford his school!!!

Did the HS coach know enough about your family finances to give that information?

If that same coach was applying for a loan and the bank called you asking your opinion on his financial status, how would you answer?

I wanted to clarify some of the questions being raised in this topic. The kid is a 2010, and the question came up because on the questionnaire, the school asked "will you need financial assistance to attend?"

The kid answered no, because his parents can in fact pay for his tuition, and would do so if that was the necessary. The coach responded by e-mail asking if that were in fact true (no scholarship needed) because they only get 11.7, economy is bad, yet saying it wouldn't change how they view him.

My first thought was that if he told them he wouldn't need a scholarship, the school would recruit him more heavily and possibly promise him playing time or something along those lines because there is no downside, as the program wouldn't have to pay and the kid is a great student. But then again, if he told him he would need money, maybe he'd be thrown back into the pool and maybe not end up at that school. That was why I wanted to know if this occurred to anyone else, and what their experience was.

quote:

baseball168 quote:
But then again, if he told him he would need money, maybe he'd be thrown back into the pool and maybe not end up at that school.

thanks bb168 for keeping your question on target with the clarification.

I still think that a player should be recruited on his baseball ability and not his ability to save the program money. Lay the players ability on the scholly table, set a number, and then negotiate the ability to pay.

Maybe it's how I grew up, but, I was taught you get what you deserve. Mom/dads checkbook isn't being recruited the sons ability to play baseball is. In the end, hopefully, honesty will prevail IMHO.

quote:

I can definately say from personal experience that one high profile private D1 college in CA DID ask our coach if we could afford his school!!!

Maybe its just in Ca.

At the high end private schools, it's not unusual for a financial aid package to be more attractive than a baseball scholarship. Financial aid is routinely in excess of 33% of cost of attendance.

Plus the financial aid is not a year to year deal.

quote:

Plus the financial aid is not a year to year deal.

Although not at a private school, our sons academic money is only there if he maintains a certain GPA each year. So in essence his is a year to year deal.

Unlike BB money, academic money is semester to semester.

Financial aid is different from academic aid.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
TPM

I have 5 questionnaires in front of me which go in the mail in the morning and not ONE of them has a section titled parents occupation !!!!


And they are for major D-I programs

I never saw it on a questionaire either, but the subject was broached by every serious coach that presented an offer. A number of times they had the financial aid office send us forms to fill out so they could present the complete package...so they knew.

It definitely comes up, either in financial aid questionnaires or in conversation. That always bothered me a little. But I understand it because college baseball is first and foremost a business.

What always bothered me more were the assumptions that recruiters made about how much a kid would get in academic money. I can't tell you how many times I heard "he'll get close to a full ride in academic money." Trust me, this is usually a guess on their part. Never rely on such statements.

Academic success in high school is a two edged sword. It will open doors for you at some schools that might otherwise never have looked at you. But some schools will scale the athletic money back because of the academic money. This can be extremely annoying when your kid busted his butt in the classroom and on the field. But again, it's a business. Coaches will do whatever they to stretch their limited resources.

We were never asked anything about ability to pay by any college. We did have to apply and get accepted by one college before they would make an official offer and tell us how much BB and academic money they would give us. That was a D11 in CT. It was the only college that saw my Son play and it was the largest offer we got. Unfortunately it was the most expensive one.
We had to prove to the US Govt that we had the resources to pay before they would issue an F1 visa. They took into consideration the scholarship monies and our jobs etc.
This is one of the reasons we placed a big emphasis on the amount of the scholarship.
Also the estimates we got were usually low when it came to academic money.
TR no apologies here !

You won't find questions related to a family's finacial status on a questionaire. However, if you don't think financial wherewithal is an issue in any college equivalency sport you have your head in the sand. I know a position player here who has multiple offers, most of them from private D1s , including one 70% offer. Unfortunately that leaves $15,000 a year on the table and they can't afford it.
Meanwhile, I've seen families with 2 brothers, one of which gets baseball money and the other doesn't. They don't qualify for academic money. Both brothers are rostered but mom and dad are paying in excess of $50K annually for player 2.
Its a huge issue that can't be ignored by any college coach.

quote:

mom and dad are paying in excess of $50K annually for player 2

Ouch!

I may have made a mistake, pro questionaires ask parents occupation.
I do know that the school my son attended asked his travel team coach if we could afford the out of state tuition.

I remember son once told us, he was going to the school that offered him the most. He learned along the way that didn't always mean a better "fit".

Finances get discussed if you say you can't afford the spread. If the coach makes you an offer and you say you can't pay the difference they will try to find more money if they are interested. They even withdraw offers out there that the player is taking too long to make up their minds.