Schools cracking down on their athletes!

It is my belief that the coaches should have the discipline on his athletes; not the principal, etc. They hire the coach and if he isn't doing the job of "handling" his athletes then he should be removed from the post.
I do believe in standard code of conduct; no drinking, smoking, etc. but in my opinion some schools have stepped overboard in the "patrolling of the student" outside school grounds. If you are caught with alcohol, cigarettes, drugs on or off the school premises, you should be removed from the squad..This should be the coaches job...not the principal and administration...

They may have the right to do what they want out of school, but last time I checked it was agaisnt the law for 16, 17 & 18 year olds to possess or be under the influence of alcohol...not to mention that most of them are driving as well.

And I think it has been determined that no student has the "right" to play interscholastic sports...it is a priviledge.

Sorry...but IMHO the coach should not decide....he is hardly without a bias. Allkids in all activities should be treated the same. The message that they shouldn't be using drugs alcohol or tobbacco is already murky enough....

quote:

Originally posted by FastballDad:
Sorry...but IMHO the coach should not decide....he is hardly without a bias. Allkids in all activities should be treated the same. The message that they shouldn't be using drugs alcohol or tobbacco is already murky enough....

I agree that all students should be treated the same....BUT...when it comes to OFF SCHOOL GROUNDS DISCIPLINE...i think it comes down to the coaches handling their team with the rules and regulations being a student athlete being adopted by the school... Too many times a student has been removed from the squad in some areas by merely being at a party....but was not drinking, etc. If they are not convicted by the law; the day of the snitch should be eliminated...
some schools say if you are with someone who is caught with alcohol but you weren't charged with anything wrong; then you are off team...TOTALLY WRONG IN MY OPINION...

Most schools have a rule that if there is alcohol present, atheletes should not be. At our school I believe you have the right to prove that you did not consume. IMO, it shouldn't be too much to ask a KID of that age to stay away from booze from Feb. 27 until the end of May.....If it (baseball)means anything at all to a player they ought to be able to live without it.

Again it is a priviledge to represent a school as an athelete not a right and there is nothing wrong with asking them to do it as good citizens. It's the mixed message they get that makes some think they can get away with it. Usually a first offense does not result in getting kicked off the team anyway.

Just to add in a story...

At the high school I attended, there was a football player who used to tape all his parties. He also had to do an english project where he made a home movie. Being the idiot that he was, he taped his english project over one of his party tapes, so when the English teacher took the tape home to grade it, the project ended and proceeded on to the party scene with tons of student-athletes drinking. Many football players, and I think some baseball players (I think I was a freshman at the time, so I don't really remember it) were suspeneded for most of the season, and the school subsequently added a "guilty by association" policy.

Moral of the story:
Some people are really dumb.

Many schools are now requiring their SA's to sign a "code of conduct" that says they agree not to drink/smoke/gamble/act up and are aware that doing any of these things may result in suspension from school or the team.

The current Sr. class at one of the southside schools got drunk (as a team) when they were sophomores and showed up to school for a 1/2 day just prior to spring break. The baseball coach cancelled the sophomore season and asked that each kid be barred from athletics for a calendar year.

The principal and AD were all for it .... then one player's dad (who was on the schoolboard) raised a stink and said it would ruin their lives - so the schoolboard overruled the principal, AD, and coaches. The kids didn't miss ANYTHING because they didn't have any soph games scheduled for spring break.

There was a series of write-ups in the Southtown at the time - pretty interesting stuff. IIRC, the other parents were pretty fired up about it and wanted more information to come out.

TP, I believe eneryone has a right to privacy. Once these kids leave their home, they are in public. Also, the "face book" and "my space" internet sites are not private they are public. I suppose if you stay home and drink alone you can get away with it. Sounds like a lot of fun, doesn't it.

this is a very tough subject. On the one hand sports are a volunatry, extra-curricular activity. At my son's school, each athlete signs a contract to abide by an athletic code that includes not attending or being present at any party where there is underaged drinking, use of tobacco, gambling or any other illeggal activity. Violation of this code subjects the athlete to suspension from his/her team. I have no problem with this policy.

However, this same school will suspend students from class if administrators receive any evidence of any student participating in these activities even if not on school grounds or at a school function. For example, playing poker on Friday nights or entering into an NCAA pool...these will result in a student's suspension from school or other loss of privileges. IMHO this is overreaching by the school. At some point, we as parents have to be "responsible" for our children's actions (although ultimately our children should be responsible for those actions), not the schools.

Boris....that policy will not hold up for the student who is just attending classes. While there is no right to participate in sports, students do have a right to attend class.

Fastballdad, you have a pm.

Down here in Waterloo, we have a very simple policy about drugs, alcohol, etc

A) All athletes (and band members, speech team members, etc I think) have to sign a form agreeing to abide by the Code of Conduct.

Some things on this code of conduct include staying away from drugs and alcohol, yada, yada,yada. This includes not going to party where it is served as well. If you are caught in the vicinity, you're considered guilty.

IF CAUGHT AT ALL:
1st offense- automatic 23% of current season suspension. Something like 2 football games, 4 basketball games, 9 baseball games, etc

2nd offense- automatic 1 calendar year suspension from ALL extra-curricular activities

3rd offense- your high school sports career is over.

This policy went into affect this year I believe. Maybe last year- I don't remember.

You get 3 chances PERIOD. From the start of your freshman year until your last senior event is over you get 3 strikes. I believe they may be starting a similar policy for steriods which they hope to start testing for in the next couple years. With money in the state being like it is, I doubt it will happen.

Also, those suspensions are minimums. The coach, of course, has the right to go above and beyond that required suspension. In fact, my baseball coach has said that if you get caught smoking, or drinking, or are there and get written in the police report, you are done. And it happened last year too. Starting centerfield got caught for last least the second time. This kid has since been told to stay off school property since he is no longer in school.

Boris...you have aPM

"If the kids are within the vicinity of drinking, smoking, 24/7 365 and off school property" they have to pay the price too. Rediculous, laughable! Its amazing most schools have enough problems being educational institutions. I think lawyers would be coming forward pro bono to defend these kids. My comment to the schools are to be educators and coaches, leave the parenting to the parents, and law enforcement to the cops.

Tuz...LWE has a Code of Conduct meeting and an agreement to sign by all athletes; and, I believe, by many "participants" in extracurricular activities.

If a kid makes the freshman baseball team, you will be required to attend one of those meetings and sign a "multiple copy" Code of Conduct Agreement.

No one is going to sue anyone because the signed Code of Conduct Agreement is likely to be enforced.

15-16-17 year old kids are not supposed to drink and do drugs or ?????????

I know that many do and I'm not defending any of it. I have the front of my refrigerator filled with articles of accidents involving kids who drink and drive. The girl (she might have been 20 or so) from Homewood who killed her sister and a friend after apparently driving drunk. The 18 year old from Sandburg who died in the past two weeks.

Get picked up after a traffic stop with "makeshift" bongs in their cars!

Too, I read where they (the police/prosecutors) charged that 16 year old in the Northern suburbs (I believe) who was trying to go airborne with his car and the car hit a tree and a couple of kids were killed. He's been charged with reckless homicide. Don't know if they've charged him as an adult, but if they did, he's looking at a possible jail sentence of 12 years.

We can only do so much as parents. Kids forget that we were kids a while ago. Been there, done that, I tell my sons.

Hoping we never get "that call" in the middle of the night.

For kids and adults, usually, nothing good ever happens after 1 a.m....simple as that.

As athletes, we represent our schools and serve as poster boys (and girls) of what our institutions stand for. Poor decisions and outcomes by student athletes transmit into a poor image for the school. It's very hard to separate an individual kid from his school. More than a few weeks after a bad event, it will never be Joe Schmo that messed up; rather it will be known as "that baseball player from ____ high school that messed up." We need to set a positive example and act as role models for the rest of our school... we need to be the leaders both on AND off the field.

I fully support extensive alcohol/drug related misconduct guidelines as well as high academic standards for student-athletes. High school athletics aren't all about winning, it needs to foster positive development and character building that is completely undermined by letting athletes slide when found committing ILLEGAL actions. And PS- in reference to earlier posts, I'd be more than happy to support the No Child Left Behind Act right now, but this isn't the place for it.

My son and us have already signed the COC and I'm certainly not condoning drinking. I don't want my kid drinking period. Nor do I want him behind the wheel drunk, nor a victim. My concern is with the greyness of some of the stipulations, and the broad interpretation allowed of the schools. My kid can walk into a party with kids drinking, and not be able to get out of there fast enough to satisfy the decision makers and lose part or all of a sports season, thats BS.

I'm done with this topic.

Problem with "just being there long enough to find out there is alcohol present and not being able to get out" is guess what: EVERYBODY there will use that same excuse.

Our school sets high standards- and you have a problem with that?!?

And yes, we have law enforcement on campus now too. The Waterloo Police Department has an officer serving as a School Resource Officer. Any fight at school now involves both the Assistant Principal and the SRO. And our Police Chief has even been known to sub at our school.

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
Problem with "just being there long enough to find out there is alcohol present and not being able to get out" is guess what: EVERYBODY there will use that same excuse.

Exactly. Thanks for helping me make my point. No discussion, no listening, no due process, no chance for the kid he is guilty because "EVERYBODY there will use that same excuse." Thats exactly the BS I'm talking about.

Things sure have changed since we were high school athletes in the 70s .

Well there's an easy way to avoid getting in trouble. Actually two

1) Don't go out on the weekends to parties. Simple enough but not the popular thing to do.

2) Know exactly what will occur at the party you plan to go to. And then avoid the ones with unmoral things ocurring.

There- I've fixed the problems of alcohol and drug use riiiiiight

at my school if you are caught drinking you are suspended for 5 days of school, and 1/3 of the athletic season. if you turn yourself in then your punishment will be lessened. Also if you are found with any tobacco product same punishment. even if you are 18. which i feel is a dumb rule. regardless of these rules most, almost all, student athletes at my school simply do not care, and engage in these actions any way.

No student athlete should have to pay any price if he is not involved in a crime.

To be singled out at a party of 50-100 kids where a very small minority are caught drinking, smoking mj or doing any other drug is wrong, period. This has happened repeatedly to kids in our area even though the illegal activity was in a garage, attic or alley adjacent to the house (even in a car down the street). This can only be avoided by abstaining entirely from attending parties.

Unfortunately this is what many top athletes are forced to do.

One should certainly be innocent until proven guilty. Sounds to me the Barrington standard of allowing the individual the opportunity to prove he did not consume is the proper course of action. Oak Park and River Forest could learn from Barrington's example.

Interesting points of view.
A friend of mine years ago accepted a ride home from a bar. During thye ride they were pulled over by the cops and the people who gave her the ride were throwing things out the window in a panic. Turned out to be heroin. She was charged along with everyone else. Thrown up against the care a searched. $12,000 later she was aquitted. There is always an unfair cost to being stupid.
When you sign and agreement that is clear and spells everything you are bound by that agreement.
If you are a serious athlete there should be no problem abstaining.

100% agree with paying for the consequences if you don't abstain from the illegal use, possession, distribution and sale of drugs, alcohol and tobacco. But abstaining is much different than the other stipulations imposed on the SA's in these COCs which includes language that will allow very broad interpretation by the schools. This language includes but is not limited to:

"knowingly remain" and "immediate presence"

Maybe "immediate presence" is used in the laws and one of you legal-yegals can explain to us how this is interpreted.

BTW, maybe if your friend jumped out of the car she would have saved the $12,000 (Canadian or American?). Your comparing apples and oranges.

LOL

i believe most all athletes have to sign a athlete code of conduct at every high school. a player at marian catholic was just kicked out of school for recieving a dui. its just cause. kids are kids they have plenty of time to be adults they just dont realize it.

Tuz may be apples and oranges but association with people doing something wrond can be very expensive. She didn't even know they had drugs.
The real point is that you stay out of harms way. We all mointor the friends our kids hang with for a good reason. When you end up at parties where people are doing illegal things it is quilt by association.
It was Canadian and if it had not been for influential people speacking on her behalf she would have gone to jail and had a criminal record.

A couple of comments......Catholic Schools can do whatever they want, you have no right to attend their school.

I'm not one that is a zero-tolerance advocate, but I think that we make kids think it's OK just by saying "you know they are going to do it anyway"...mayeb some will but all won't.

If it means so much to them they will do what they have to to be eligible. The kids knwo the rules and they take chances....but if they know there is a real chance there will be consequences, they will make whatever decision knowing it.....how much it means to them will be reflected in their behavior.

OK, I am a senior in HS and I am gearing up for my senior baseball season. I think getting a currentnSA's point of view may help you guys out.

1st- If your kid doesn't know what is going on at a party, they should not be there. period.

2nd- This whole "only being there for a few seconds" is bogus. When you drive up to a party, it is very easy to tell what is going on inside before even entering. Many times I have wanted to go to a party but just drove on by b/c I knew what was going on inside.

3rd- If kids care enough about being able to play their sports (which are a PRIVELEDGE), they would be able to stay home on the weekends and not go party.

4th- As an athlete who has played it straight his whole life, it really ticks me off when somebody gets caught doing something stupid and recieves preferential treatment because they are a good athlete. IMO, if you are caught drinking, doing drugs, etc. you should be banned for the rest of HS. you have to remember, it is ILLEGAL.

5th- There is a reason that kids drink. It is an escape for them. To get away from something. More often than not it is due to bad parenting. Maybe instead of worrying about what is going to happen if your kid gets caught at a party, you should go give them a hug or spend some quality time w/ them.

thas all i have to say

All I know is if you're on any sports team..you should know no fighting drinking smoking drugs nothin..you know the risks..if you're stupid enough or too cool for those rules you know the consequences...your fault.

I'm a Junior currently. Here I am half way thru my junior year and I haven't been to a party in my entire high school career. Maybe it's because my parents work for the school, and sports mean that much. I don't know- I just don't party AT ALL. Of course, 3 sports you don't have a whole lot of time for parties either.

If you want it, you'll do anything to get it.

TGONG
You are wise beyond your years. I feel the same way you do. If an SA is serious about his future in sports, he can abstain from the parties and drinking, etc. You're right, they are doing the illegal acts as an escape from something or to try to "be cool" and see what they can get away with. There are 100 things a SA can do at night besides drinking or smoking, and if he had some "real" friends, they would understand his situation and would find some activity they all could do that does not involve illegal parties.

To elaborate on your point Huskie, my real friends do look out for me. recently i was hanging out with a few friends tailgating for a football game and I went to take a sip from another buddies "Moutain Dew" but my friend just told me what it really was so i wouldn't drink it. Those are the kind of people I like to surround myself with so that i can stay out of trouble. EVEN IF IT IS INADVERTENTLY.

Huskie, you have a pm

I agree 1000% with Huskie8 and tgong thoughts on this. As a parent I always let my sons make their own decisions. I just made sure that they understood all the options there were available to them. My 25 yr old seldom drinks, the 22 almost never because the career he is persuing it would be hard to get a job after his schooling and the youngest, who plays college baseball has signed codes of conduct that he takes seriously. It bothers him when teammate don't take their responsibilities serious also. To say, kids will be kids...is a cop out. Be responsible, know the rules and if you decide to sign on the dotted line, follow those rules because you agreed to them. It is as simple aas that IMHO
tgong, keep your convictions. It is better to be in the minority and have your dignity than be with the majority who are only faking to be responsible.

TGONG you have a pm

I am a varsity coach and can tell everyone that at my HS when an athlete breaks the code they lose out on 20 percent of the games for their first offense, the entire season for #2, and are done for their HS career at #3. I feel this is fair. It is unfortunate, but I also can't remember coaching a season without someone breaking the code and getting either suspended or removed from the team. It is not just the athlete that suffers, but the entire team that has been working hard and sacrificing. I think that there are a great number of athletes that are breaking the code (probably as I type this). It is unfortunate that a nights worth of partying is more important than achieving greatness (conf., reg., sec., state championships). I try to let my players understand that when you achieve one of these goals, it will live forever in their memories and in the school record books. I ask how many people are going to remember the time they went to a party on some random Saturday night.

I am also an advocate of random drug testing in HS athletics and activities. I feel that this may give the kids one other reason to say no.

DC, my school does random drug testing. For everyone not just athletes. however the system is very flawed. Under the system they allow you to have weed in ur system as long as its not over a certain limit. If you test positive for it, then you are not suspended and the school doesnt even find out.After 2 positive tests you are eliminated from the team for the rest of the season.

Would if it is not written in the extracurricular student pledge of conduct that the student will be disciplined even if they are around alcohol? The extracurricular pledge that our students sign only states that it prohibits the use, sale, possession and distribution of alcohol.

Our school is now disciplining athletes that they find out have been around alcohol even though they are not consuming it. In one case last week a picture that was taken 4 months ago was sent anonymously to the school administrators last week that shows an athlete (who shows not to be drinking) but is near someone who has a beer in their hand. They are now discipling the non drinking athlete. Their reason "We intended the student code of conduct to include that the student cannot be around illegal use of alcohol, therefore we have the authority to discipline" I fully disagree. Until they change the pledge to include being around it and the student signs it, they should not be able to enforce it.