These DELETED's in the PD's and HS's would have made great KGB men and women.
So....what we have here is "athlete's in hiding" less they be forced into "guilt by association".
Oak Park and River Forest PD's take the cake. With nothing else to do in cakeeaterville....they actively pursue the HS crowd. If they find paydirt...any illegal activity...EVERYBODY PAYS. These gestapo types immediately turn their findings over to the HS where more gestapo types thrill at eliminating athletes from their chosen sport. It's a wonder that real criminal's are ever apprehended in CEV.
All you athletes that are saying this is OK...would have made solid German citizens in the 1940's!
I have no problem with dealing with this absurd reality...just a problem with the reality itself.
Sox, I agree with your sentiment regarding the adults. I do however think you are being hard on the kids. There is nothing wrong with a kid to be front and center in favor of following the rules.
I think there is a school in the NW Burbs that will be hurting because one of their stars couldn't stay away from the beer and got caught not once but at least twice and another who got caught once. It's not likely that the only times they were caught were the only times that they drank. A lot of kids worked hard for several years to get to this point in time and they suffer for it as well.
The system is set up to send the message that it's OK to drink, but just don't get caught. And when they do get caught the message is much more harsh. Time to tell the kids you really mean it.....a lot of kids apparently don't think the schools mean it.
I think there is a school in the NW Burbs that will be hurting because one of their stars couldn't stay away from the beer and got caught not once but at least twice and another who got caught once. It's not likely that the only times they were caught were the only times that they drank. A lot of kids worked hard for several years to get to this point in time and they suffer for it as well.
The system is set up to send the message that it's OK to drink, but just don't get caught. And when they do get caught the message is much more harsh. Time to tell the kids you really mean it.....a lot of kids apparently don't think the schools mean it.
Soxnole: as always I agree with you. However, I would ease off on the KGB and Gestapo references. For new generations it diminishes how evil those groups were. After all, the gestapo and KGB pulled inocent people out of their homes and killed them. Not the same as stopping a kid from extra-cirricular activities.
We had 2 students die in an automobile accident a couple of weekends ago up here is Crystal Lake. The authorities beleive alcohol is involved. This in not just a sports issue, this is a serious issue regarding all hs students. Being suspended from a sport should be the least of the parents/students concern if thier child is drinking at this age. Get the priorities right. Drinking is ILLEGAL for minors-period. The last thing I want is for either one of my kids to be a alchohol/drug statistic.
Soxnole, hopefully these police your referring to have been able to stop some kids from getting in their cars before something horrific happens. I am glad to see that they are being proactive. I grew up with a police officer (my father) so I take offense to the gestapo reference. I am sure in the 12 years he was on the police force he did more good than harm to the local HS students.
Good luck to all the HS players this week and this year. Have fun and be safe.
Go CL Tigers
Soxnole, hopefully these police your referring to have been able to stop some kids from getting in their cars before something horrific happens. I am glad to see that they are being proactive. I grew up with a police officer (my father) so I take offense to the gestapo reference. I am sure in the 12 years he was on the police force he did more good than harm to the local HS students.
Good luck to all the HS players this week and this year. Have fun and be safe.
Go CL Tigers
tigercub,
Thanks for your post. As a parent of a HS player, it is hard for me to disagree with anything you said. Coachb25 has also shared some very sad stories with us regarding alcohol and driving related deaths in his community.
Underage drinking is illegal. Playing on a HS team is not a right, it is a privilege. If the school mandates that athletes cannot be present when there is alcohol being consumed, then that is a rule a player must abide by or risk the consequences. It may not seem fair, but if you know in advance there should not be any question as to what a player can and can't do.
Thanks for your post. As a parent of a HS player, it is hard for me to disagree with anything you said. Coachb25 has also shared some very sad stories with us regarding alcohol and driving related deaths in his community.
Underage drinking is illegal. Playing on a HS team is not a right, it is a privilege. If the school mandates that athletes cannot be present when there is alcohol being consumed, then that is a rule a player must abide by or risk the consequences. It may not seem fair, but if you know in advance there should not be any question as to what a player can and can't do.
I don't think that Soxnole has an issue with punishing the kids that get caught consuming and using. I believe he has an issue with what "lew" commented on in his post which I have an excerpt of below. This is what bothered me so much when I posted in this thread weeks ago. A kid goes to an after dance party for instance, and you have some punk drinking a beer and that athlete is in the wrong place at the wrong time. And as lew's and Soxnole's post so aptly suggests, there is no due process for these kids, they are simply punished, scruewed-over.
Who knows, maybe the athlete in lew's example was purposely set-up by the kids. "Hey Johnny, go drink a beer by our all-state SS so I can snap a picture of him standing next to you. Athletes suck anyways and he doesn’t belong with that chick.”
Maybe DELETED isn’t the right choice of words, but DELETED is.
Who knows, maybe the athlete in lew's example was purposely set-up by the kids. "Hey Johnny, go drink a beer by our all-state SS so I can snap a picture of him standing next to you. Athletes suck anyways and he doesn’t belong with that chick.”
Maybe DELETED isn’t the right choice of words, but DELETED is.
quote:Originally posted by lew:
Our school is now disciplining athletes that they find out have been around alcohol even though they are not consuming it. In one case last week a picture that was taken 4 months ago was sent anonymously to the school administrators last week that shows an athlete (who shows not to be drinking) but is near someone who has a beer in their hand.
The policy as I always understood the inner workings is if you go to a party and there is any drinking,drugs or smoking going on you need to leave fast. If kids follows that advise and still gets punished we as adults are sending the wrong message. If you don't leave accept the punishment regardless if you are drinking or not.
Isc59 you are correct. My school district has punished kids for walking in and immediately walking out. It does send the wrong message and muddies the waters. If you drink or stay at the party once you know what is going on, then you should get slammed. If you are trying to do what is right, why be punished?
I believe that any kid that is going to a party knows who is there and what is going on at that party before he even gets there. This bit about walking in, seeing that there's drinking at the party and then walking out? I don't believe it for a minute. Besides, every kid I have in my classes has a cell phone that they can call someone at the party and find out what's going on if they are clueless.
Huskie8,
Well said my man.
Well said my man.
Huskie 8,
From the mouth of Mr. Social Butterfly:
Checked with the Sophomore son regarding your comment. He agreed almost 100% with your statement. I was a little surprised and thought that he would say, that you could go to a party and find out that one or more of the "illegals" are present. Next move would be to find an escape route. According to number two son, news of the type of party is pretty well known before you step one foot through the door.
Talking or texting your friends would also be taking place with friends at the party. He stated that there may be an exception but it would be pretty rare. Shows how little I know
and how much you know.
From the mouth of Mr. Social Butterfly:
Checked with the Sophomore son regarding your comment. He agreed almost 100% with your statement. I was a little surprised and thought that he would say, that you could go to a party and find out that one or more of the "illegals" are present. Next move would be to find an escape route. According to number two son, news of the type of party is pretty well known before you step one foot through the door.
Talking or texting your friends would also be taking place with friends at the party. He stated that there may be an exception but it would be pretty rare. Shows how little I know
and how much you know.
Huskie 8 and James Donovan,
So it's OK that athlete's must abstain from normal social activity?
The solution is to avoid this situation when you know it exist's. No kidding.
The question is....and has been stated in prior threads....what do you do when the PERSON ATTENDING A SEEMINGLY INNOCUOUOS PARTY is surprised by the jerk with something illegal in the backyard,alley, garage or even in a car down the street. The instances of this type of scene spilling over and tainting all inside, indeed all that are NOT involved, are numerous.
My solution is to cart off the jerk...or jerk's and leave the rest ALONE!
River Forest P.D.'s solution is to roust everyone at the party, take names and alert the school which puts the innocent ones in jeapordy. This is wrong and you both need to say that it is wrong. Short of the community at large asking the P.D.'s to change their procedure, athlete's (and other's) will continue to refrain from NORMAL SOCIAL ACTIVITY.
Put simply, it stinks that they are relegated to movies, dinner's and staying at home or at a house with a small group of friends. Btw, while they are at that house with a small group of friends, they must hope that nothing is going on down the block, lest they hear you know who at the doorbell.
So it's OK that athlete's must abstain from normal social activity?
The solution is to avoid this situation when you know it exist's. No kidding.
The question is....and has been stated in prior threads....what do you do when the PERSON ATTENDING A SEEMINGLY INNOCUOUOS PARTY is surprised by the jerk with something illegal in the backyard,alley, garage or even in a car down the street. The instances of this type of scene spilling over and tainting all inside, indeed all that are NOT involved, are numerous.
My solution is to cart off the jerk...or jerk's and leave the rest ALONE!
River Forest P.D.'s solution is to roust everyone at the party, take names and alert the school which puts the innocent ones in jeapordy. This is wrong and you both need to say that it is wrong. Short of the community at large asking the P.D.'s to change their procedure, athlete's (and other's) will continue to refrain from NORMAL SOCIAL ACTIVITY.
Put simply, it stinks that they are relegated to movies, dinner's and staying at home or at a house with a small group of friends. Btw, while they are at that house with a small group of friends, they must hope that nothing is going on down the block, lest they hear you know who at the doorbell.
Soxnole, you are my hero. Well said.
Ya know, maybe I'm missing something here, but 17 and 18 year olds DON'T need to be with or around drinking, smoking or any other bad thing that "the others" are doing!
So what if from the start of baseball season til the end, the kid has to stay away from party's where there is drinking? Oh boo hoo...
little joey can't get drunk until after June!!!
It sounds tho, as if OPRF is going overboard, and something should be done about it, GO TO THE BOARD OF EDUCATION MEETINGS, not just one of you, but ALL the parents on the team or teams.
Underage drinking should not be condoned (sp)
It is UNACCEPTABLE, weather it be the team rule or not....It was OUR rule and still is. They will be 21 soon enough!!!
So what if from the start of baseball season til the end, the kid has to stay away from party's where there is drinking? Oh boo hoo...
little joey can't get drunk until after June!!!
It sounds tho, as if OPRF is going overboard, and something should be done about it, GO TO THE BOARD OF EDUCATION MEETINGS, not just one of you, but ALL the parents on the team or teams.
Underage drinking should not be condoned (sp)
It is UNACCEPTABLE, weather it be the team rule or not....It was OUR rule and still is. They will be 21 soon enough!!!
No one is condoning underage drinking. Soxnole's concern, and many others is that the kids that are NOT drinking are getting in trouble. And it DOES happen more than it should.And these kids play more than baseball, some can't socialize (I did not say get drunk) for 9 months out of the year.
Last I checked hanging around illegal activity was not "NORMAL SOCIAL ACTIVITY". The excuse "I just came in, saw it, and was turning around to leave" also does not work because guess what: EVERY SINGLE PERSON will use the same excuse whether they were drinking or not.
Also, if avoiding the illegal activity is a problem for a particular person, I'm sorry but I don't think that is somebody I want a) on my team and b) representing our school.
I think I stated it earlier in this thread, but I'll state it again: I'm coming into my Junior baseball season; I haven't been to a high school party yet. Man, I sure hope I haven't suffered too much.
Also, if avoiding the illegal activity is a problem for a particular person, I'm sorry but I don't think that is somebody I want a) on my team and b) representing our school.
I think I stated it earlier in this thread, but I'll state it again: I'm coming into my Junior baseball season; I haven't been to a high school party yet. Man, I sure hope I haven't suffered too much.
soxnole,
As usual you have your opinions and why should this be different. My point is to agree with the Gman in that kids know what's up. If yours have fooled you into believing differently that's your problem. As to the local police conspiracy theory, what are they supposed to do? Ask the kids? Is it fair? Absolutely not. Life isn't fair. Eric Lisle's case proves that. Why don't you adress the school or athletic department about their policy on breaking the law. What is the drinking age these days anyway? Is weed still illegal? When I was in 5th grade a group of my buddies thought it would be fun to throw snowballs at a bus on North avenue. I was there but didn't throw one. A police officer was driving right behind the bus. Oops busted! He didn't seem to care that I hadn't thrown one. My friends even told him that I hadn't thrown one. I was there and I was in trouble. You know, guilt by association. My parents didn't care that I hadn't thrown one, I was THERE. Maybe we should encourage kids to be accountable for their actions or associations. Furthermore, Most times that cops bust a party, something has gotten a bit out of hand in some way.
Sometimes you have to sacrifice in life to stay clean. I say those who want to party should do it. More power to them. Just be prepared, if you do the crime (actual or by association), you do the time.
Let me also say from experience, Let's agree to disagree and end it at that.
As usual you have your opinions and why should this be different. My point is to agree with the Gman in that kids know what's up. If yours have fooled you into believing differently that's your problem. As to the local police conspiracy theory, what are they supposed to do? Ask the kids? Is it fair? Absolutely not. Life isn't fair. Eric Lisle's case proves that. Why don't you adress the school or athletic department about their policy on breaking the law. What is the drinking age these days anyway? Is weed still illegal? When I was in 5th grade a group of my buddies thought it would be fun to throw snowballs at a bus on North avenue. I was there but didn't throw one. A police officer was driving right behind the bus. Oops busted! He didn't seem to care that I hadn't thrown one. My friends even told him that I hadn't thrown one. I was there and I was in trouble. You know, guilt by association. My parents didn't care that I hadn't thrown one, I was THERE. Maybe we should encourage kids to be accountable for their actions or associations. Furthermore, Most times that cops bust a party, something has gotten a bit out of hand in some way.
Sometimes you have to sacrifice in life to stay clean. I say those who want to party should do it. More power to them. Just be prepared, if you do the crime (actual or by association), you do the time.
Let me also say from experience, Let's agree to disagree and end it at that.
It sure is refreshing to see ball players that know what they want and what they have to do to get there.
Its called priority. If the party is worth the season, then party on. In college it gets worse. Its all about putting everything in a priority. And some will be different then others. The ones who gets it and understands what they want will keep going on. The others will have made their own beds. Pretty simple.
Not just baseball, but life.
Not just baseball, but life.
deuce-
well said also. Couldn't agree more.
well said also. Couldn't agree more.
Just Say No and you will not have problems...
I think there needs to be some kind of balance between baseball and a social life. I would find it very difficult to completely diss my childhood friends even if they are doing illegal things. It is difficult to find a group of kids who doesn't get involved in illegal stuff every once in a while. So while I think committing the illegal acts is terribly wrong, I think that at the same time there shouldn't be a penalty for being with people doing those illegal acts. While this is what I believe, it is obviously not the case as many people get in trouble for "guilt by association".
I'm willing to take the risk of being around this kind of stuff every once in a while because I would much rather live with missing a few baseball games over missing out on friendships that will last a life time.
I'm willing to take the risk of being around this kind of stuff every once in a while because I would much rather live with missing a few baseball games over missing out on friendships that will last a life time.
See , its a choice !
I cannot imagine any better expression of both sides of this issue than in the last several posts.
Ktown25, I greatly appreciate your candor on this sensitive subject. I respect your point of view, especially when you clearly understand the possible repercussions.
Deucedoc and James Donovan, As a father of a 17 yr old and a baseball player, I can only hope that he is mature enough to understand that there are consequences for his behavior, as you both pointed out.
Ktown25, I greatly appreciate your candor on this sensitive subject. I respect your point of view, especially when you clearly understand the possible repercussions.
Deucedoc and James Donovan, As a father of a 17 yr old and a baseball player, I can only hope that he is mature enough to understand that there are consequences for his behavior, as you both pointed out.
This is in many ways a very simple problem. Bulldog, summed it up a couple different times. If you want to be sure you are not around booze,smoke or other drugs.....don't go to the party. I guess you will be safe. Maybe a bit boring but safe.
If you know that there is some dope smoking going on in the backyard at a party, because you had been "texted" by your girlfriend but attend anyhow...well you get what you sow.
Soxnole, you are right...it really is too bad that you could be at a party that you know the crowd pretty well and some kids from a different town that someone met on "myspace" gets busted for smoking pot that results in lost playing time for the unaware athletes present.
I don't know how the student-athlete protects themselves in that situation or if one town is so different from another in how they handle
the punishment and the communication with the high school.
Being in High School is great time in life but it also a period of very little personal rights, privacy or adult support. Personal note: When the riot took place at my high school and after the billy club bounced off my skull, I told the officer, I was not involved in the fight...he looked at me and said "yea right" and thumped me again." I was'nt involved...I swear". I complained to my Dad, a depression era, tool and die maker, WWII jungle fighter about my treatment and he said "same thing happened to me when I was about your age...suck it up." Teenage years are the best of times and the worst of times.
If you know that there is some dope smoking going on in the backyard at a party, because you had been "texted" by your girlfriend but attend anyhow...well you get what you sow.
Soxnole, you are right...it really is too bad that you could be at a party that you know the crowd pretty well and some kids from a different town that someone met on "myspace" gets busted for smoking pot that results in lost playing time for the unaware athletes present.
I don't know how the student-athlete protects themselves in that situation or if one town is so different from another in how they handle
the punishment and the communication with the high school.
Being in High School is great time in life but it also a period of very little personal rights, privacy or adult support. Personal note: When the riot took place at my high school and after the billy club bounced off my skull, I told the officer, I was not involved in the fight...he looked at me and said "yea right" and thumped me again." I was'nt involved...I swear". I complained to my Dad, a depression era, tool and die maker, WWII jungle fighter about my treatment and he said "same thing happened to me when I was about your age...suck it up." Teenage years are the best of times and the worst of times.
quote:Originally posted by lsc59:
Teenage years are the best of times and the worst of times.
...
Donovan.
I don't appreciate the personal insult.
I will choose to believe that your tounge ran away with itself.
When you have raised your beautiful little boy's to maturity...that is when you can give advice to those of us who have completed the process!
I raised 5 boy's...did they pull the wool over my eyes? Almost never. Did I listen to their side of the story...sure. My point in this is to let you know that EACH child is different. They make DIFFERENT choices. My boy's have reached the pinnacle of adult success and have had their occasional lapses. The only one you are really familiar with went through this "can't go where everyone else is going" for 4 years at OPRF. It stinks...period.
I agree to disagree, although the insult was both uncalled for and absurd conjecture on your part.
I am truly sorry to hear that you agree with guilt by association.
I don't appreciate the personal insult.
I will choose to believe that your tounge ran away with itself.
When you have raised your beautiful little boy's to maturity...that is when you can give advice to those of us who have completed the process!
I raised 5 boy's...did they pull the wool over my eyes? Almost never. Did I listen to their side of the story...sure. My point in this is to let you know that EACH child is different. They make DIFFERENT choices. My boy's have reached the pinnacle of adult success and have had their occasional lapses. The only one you are really familiar with went through this "can't go where everyone else is going" for 4 years at OPRF. It stinks...period.
I agree to disagree, although the insult was both uncalled for and absurd conjecture on your part.
I am truly sorry to hear that you agree with guilt by association.
Who cares about baseball when it comes to drugs and alcohol.Their is no baseball when a Kid is hurt or killed because of alcohol or drugs.Kidds know who does what and where.You can always hang out with your friends at some other place or time.
Please READ the posts before you respond. NO ONE IS SAYING KIDS SHOULD TAKE DRUGS OR DRINK ALCOHOL!! The discussion was about kids NOT doing that but still getting punished.
My point was don't hang out where drugs and alcohol are.And kids know what is at a party.
Everyone has an opinion which they are entitled to, young or old. The sad truth is that we as paarents (generaliztion), have failed in our "values" process with our kids. I'm no angel and I'm not perfect, but I keep praying that my wife and myself are doing the right things.
When I was a teen, decades ago, I had friends who did drugs. Alcohol was a natural right-of-passage. Underage drinking was a problem, but almost everyone did it. If you were at a party, at the beach, at a group picnic, whatever, and the police saw you, they didn't report you, haul you off to jail, they just confiscated the alcohol and broke-up the event, or took you back to the police station and called your parents to come and pick you up. Was this wrong, maybe, but there was a different tolerance level back then. Did people get killed driving, probably, but you didn't hear about that sort of thing on the news like you do today.
I guess as parents today, maybe we have over-compensated for these things by being less tolerant of issues that were taken for granted in the past. Over-compensating for the mistakes we made. Maybe we have let morals and discipline slip away, or not taken the time to work at these things like our parents did! It seems that we are always in a hurry to go places and do things in a very constrained amount of time. "I'll do it later when I'm not so busy", "I'll do it when I have more time"! Maybe we don't spend as much time with our kids as we think we do?
My point is that if we can't have our kids understand what the repercussions of their actions are, then maybe the school administrators have to do it. "Guilty by association"!!!! If that is what coaches, schools, police, and lawyers want, then guess what?????? Remember, the schools, police and lawyers didn't create the alcohol and drug problems, we did!!!!!!! If we don't like what a coach or school has as a Code of Conduct policy for their students and athletes, then deal with the police and lawyers.
Again, I'm not perfect, and neither is the system, but this is how it is today and we have to deal with it. Any better ideas???????
JMHO
When I was a teen, decades ago, I had friends who did drugs. Alcohol was a natural right-of-passage. Underage drinking was a problem, but almost everyone did it. If you were at a party, at the beach, at a group picnic, whatever, and the police saw you, they didn't report you, haul you off to jail, they just confiscated the alcohol and broke-up the event, or took you back to the police station and called your parents to come and pick you up. Was this wrong, maybe, but there was a different tolerance level back then. Did people get killed driving, probably, but you didn't hear about that sort of thing on the news like you do today.
I guess as parents today, maybe we have over-compensated for these things by being less tolerant of issues that were taken for granted in the past. Over-compensating for the mistakes we made. Maybe we have let morals and discipline slip away, or not taken the time to work at these things like our parents did! It seems that we are always in a hurry to go places and do things in a very constrained amount of time. "I'll do it later when I'm not so busy", "I'll do it when I have more time"! Maybe we don't spend as much time with our kids as we think we do?
My point is that if we can't have our kids understand what the repercussions of their actions are, then maybe the school administrators have to do it. "Guilty by association"!!!! If that is what coaches, schools, police, and lawyers want, then guess what?????? Remember, the schools, police and lawyers didn't create the alcohol and drug problems, we did!!!!!!! If we don't like what a coach or school has as a Code of Conduct policy for their students and athletes, then deal with the police and lawyers.
Again, I'm not perfect, and neither is the system, but this is how it is today and we have to deal with it. Any better ideas???????
JMHO
The police can't just take it away and "break up the event" because as soon as they do that and one of the kids gets into a car; Murphey will almost guarentee there's a wreck. Guess who is liable there? 'Cops will be because they let the kids go after the kids had been drinking.'
Our society these days make a big deal out of just about everything. It isn't like the old days. You look at someone wrong and you could have a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Somebody posted how my lifestyle sounded boring or whatever because I don't attend high school parties where there could possibly illegal or immoral activity going on. Tell me if you truly find a quick list of stuff I do really THAT boring:
-baseball, football, and basketball at the varsity level
-LIFESAVERs organization at school. We are a group that promotes making healthy choices and are highly involved in drug-free and alcohol-free events promoting the drug-free way of life.
-SHOW group. This group (Students Helping Out Waterloo) is a service group that does multiple service projects each month.
-National Honor Society.
-Boy Scouts of America. I am currently serving as a Junior Assistant Scoutmaster. Basically, I am a youth leader who is serving in a position that many troops have adults fill. I work with new Scouts teaching leadership, camping skills, and other things.
-2005 National Scout Jamboree youth staff- this summer I worked this event for 14 days at Fort AP Hill, VA. Yes, this was the event that made the news a lot in July for a variety of reasons.
-Maintaining a 3.6 GPA as a Junior in high school enrolled in Honors-level classes.
-National Council for Youth Leaders nominee
All about choices.
Our society these days make a big deal out of just about everything. It isn't like the old days. You look at someone wrong and you could have a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Somebody posted how my lifestyle sounded boring or whatever because I don't attend high school parties where there could possibly illegal or immoral activity going on. Tell me if you truly find a quick list of stuff I do really THAT boring:
-baseball, football, and basketball at the varsity level
-LIFESAVERs organization at school. We are a group that promotes making healthy choices and are highly involved in drug-free and alcohol-free events promoting the drug-free way of life.
-SHOW group. This group (Students Helping Out Waterloo) is a service group that does multiple service projects each month.
-National Honor Society.
-Boy Scouts of America. I am currently serving as a Junior Assistant Scoutmaster. Basically, I am a youth leader who is serving in a position that many troops have adults fill. I work with new Scouts teaching leadership, camping skills, and other things.
-2005 National Scout Jamboree youth staff- this summer I worked this event for 14 days at Fort AP Hill, VA. Yes, this was the event that made the news a lot in July for a variety of reasons.
-Maintaining a 3.6 GPA as a Junior in high school enrolled in Honors-level classes.
-National Council for Youth Leaders nominee
All about choices.
great posts, Boomer, going deep and Bulldog 19...
Ah to be young again.
Ah to be young again.
Bulldog...way to go. The idea that everyone does all the "cool" but not desireable things is way over rated....I suspect that there are many more kids who do not drink, smoke or do drugs than is advertised.
A few post ago, someone mentioned that no one is condoning this behavior.....on the contrary when you expect that behavior and accept it, you may as well condone it. Being a parent or coach is not about being liked or being a cool guy......it's about defining boundaries foir your kids. That said, there has to be sensibility in dealing with it. A kid having a beer does not make him a bad kid. Some of my kids could handle being around others who cross the line without being influenced...others maybe not. I think the issue relative to sports has more to with discipline and being a team player than anything else. If the coach likes short hair for his players, do it. If the coach or the rules say no drinking or being around it during the season then don't do it, if only for the team. If you get tossed for breaking the rules fair or not, you don't deserve to be on the team anyway. You let an awfull lot of people down.
A few post ago, someone mentioned that no one is condoning this behavior.....on the contrary when you expect that behavior and accept it, you may as well condone it. Being a parent or coach is not about being liked or being a cool guy......it's about defining boundaries foir your kids. That said, there has to be sensibility in dealing with it. A kid having a beer does not make him a bad kid. Some of my kids could handle being around others who cross the line without being influenced...others maybe not. I think the issue relative to sports has more to with discipline and being a team player than anything else. If the coach likes short hair for his players, do it. If the coach or the rules say no drinking or being around it during the season then don't do it, if only for the team. If you get tossed for breaking the rules fair or not, you don't deserve to be on the team anyway. You let an awfull lot of people down.
From reading the posts in this thread, I have come to the conclusion that a lot of parents don't exactly condone the act, but do accept the fact that it happens.
I am one, almost positively a minority, who is completely against alcohol, smoking, etc. Not just those who are underage, but I feel EVERYBODY should avoid the items. Of course, it is each individual's right to make decisions for themselves, and if they screw it up; I'm not going to feel too sorry for them.
I avoid parties like the plague. I hear what goes on there. That's not something I could do hang out at a party where there is illegal activity going on.
I feel that those individuals at a party should get in trouble if there is alcohol present and being consumed even if said individual is not actively participating. Why? Sounds like an acomplice to me. That person is allowing it to happen in their presence. Just like if a kid was wanting to go shoot somebody and told his buddy. If that buddy doesn't turn the kid in, he too should be nailed. He knew something illegal could possibly happen and he kept quiet.
We have a school resource officer at our school. Our police department and high school get along quite well. If they bust a party, they let the administration know. Why? Because those individuals are subject to dicipline through the school and can be suspended from extra-curricular activies. That goes for all law enforcement interaction where a law is broken except minor motor vehicle things such as speeding, accident, etc.
I support that because those people who willingly break the law are not the same people I want representing my school.
It's nice to live in this great nation where each person can have their own opinion.
I am one, almost positively a minority, who is completely against alcohol, smoking, etc. Not just those who are underage, but I feel EVERYBODY should avoid the items. Of course, it is each individual's right to make decisions for themselves, and if they screw it up; I'm not going to feel too sorry for them.
I avoid parties like the plague. I hear what goes on there. That's not something I could do hang out at a party where there is illegal activity going on.
I feel that those individuals at a party should get in trouble if there is alcohol present and being consumed even if said individual is not actively participating. Why? Sounds like an acomplice to me. That person is allowing it to happen in their presence. Just like if a kid was wanting to go shoot somebody and told his buddy. If that buddy doesn't turn the kid in, he too should be nailed. He knew something illegal could possibly happen and he kept quiet.
We have a school resource officer at our school. Our police department and high school get along quite well. If they bust a party, they let the administration know. Why? Because those individuals are subject to dicipline through the school and can be suspended from extra-curricular activies. That goes for all law enforcement interaction where a law is broken except minor motor vehicle things such as speeding, accident, etc.
I support that because those people who willingly break the law are not the same people I want representing my school.
It's nice to live in this great nation where each person can have their own opinion.
Speeding is far more dangerous than drinking a beer (that is unless you mix the beer with driving). BD19, it is easy for you to call for punishment for the innocent along with the guilty because you never go to parties. To comparwe being at a house where there is underage drinking in rooms where you are not present, to not stopping a murder is a stretch to say the least.
While my son is a kid who goes to friends houses(who are also athletes and stays away from parties) I do know of kids that have been punished for being there. You think it is OK, I think it is harsh. Remeber, sometimes the more restrictive one is, the more it can cause young people to rebel. The best thing parents can do is to set a good example, communicate, and use discipline when needed. Hopefully, the kids will respect the rules and the law, and hopefully the laws will be applied faily.
While my son is a kid who goes to friends houses(who are also athletes and stays away from parties) I do know of kids that have been punished for being there. You think it is OK, I think it is harsh. Remeber, sometimes the more restrictive one is, the more it can cause young people to rebel. The best thing parents can do is to set a good example, communicate, and use discipline when needed. Hopefully, the kids will respect the rules and the law, and hopefully the laws will be applied faily.
quote:Originally posted by bballdad1954:
Speeding is far more dangerous than drinking a beer (that is unless you mix the beer with driving). BD19, it is easy for you to call for punishment for the innocent along with the guilty because you never go to parties. To comparwe being at a house where there is underage drinking in rooms where you are not present, to not stopping a murder is a stretch to say the least.
While my son is a kid who goes to friend's houses(who are also athletes) and stays away from parties) I do know of kids that have been punished for "being there". You think it is OK, I think it is harsh. You say the kids always know what is going on everywhere in the house, I say they may not.
Remember, sometimes the more restrictive one is, the more it can cause young people to rebel. The best thing parents can do is to set a good example, communicate, and use discipline when needed. Hopefully, the kids will respect the rules and the law, and hopefully the laws will be applied faily.
I tried to fix my spelling and grammar and now I have two posts and there are still mistakes. Oh well, some day I'll learn how to use this sire.
quote:Originally posted by bballdad1954:
To comparwe being at a house where there is underage drinking in rooms where you are not present, to not stopping a murder is a stretch to say the least.
Illegal is Illegal, correct?
The speeding issue-- I'll agree that speeding (and driving is in general) and I don't agree with people who speed. Have a sped before? Yes, but not more than a couple miles over the limit and not on purpose.
It's pretty hard to get drunk on accident.
Have I had a beer? Or had a cigarette? NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT!
But I have seen the effects of alcohol and driving. That is one we can agree with-- mixture is a lot worse than one or the other. They're all still wrong mixed or not. I think last year might have been the first time our school has NOT had an accident that led to fatality right at the end of the school year. One was overcorrecting at the wheel-- it does happen on gravel sometimes. The year before was a drunk driver (of legal age IIRC) taking four others (underage and had been drinking) driving through a house knocking the house off the foundation. Two killed, two injured, and the drunk driver walked away unharmed. The two killed were brother and sister; one recent graduate, the other either a junior or a senior that year.
Should be able to go w/o saying that alcohol and illegal drugs have more negative effects than speeding for the most part. Yes, I know accidents happen in the car and speeding is a major reason for that. My father is a Drivers' Ed teacher and I have completed Drivers' Education within the last 2 years.
Bull, This topic has run it's course. I respect your opinion in this matter. I just want to respond to one thing. "illegal is Illegal, correct?" The answer is there are different levels of illegal. There are misdemeanors and felonies. There are different levels of felonies as there are different levels of murder. All our punsished differently. Life isn't so black and white which is the problem with guilt by association and rounding up people and punsihing them all in the same way.