Schools with revolving doors for pitchers

quote:

Originally posted by dad4boys:
1 school only had 13 players on their team.

This one might be a good option for some of those 'high maintenance' parents that have been discussed here

This might get the discussion going. As I reviewed the 2005 rosters, some colleges have started posting the 2006 rosters and the number of pitchers coming and going is remarkable. Like a revolving door at some top SEC schools.

Wow....that is only 2.24 LHP per school......if my math is correct.

Most schools must have about 12-16 pitches on their rosters, I would guess.

grateful,

please note my data is incomplete because all schools do not list pitchers as lhp or rhp and do not put B/T in the profiles.

What an interesting piece of work - how do you find the time

Unless the data is really incomplete - e.g. more than 50% of the schools don't list by position or provide "handedness", there are still far fewer LHPs than I would have thought. Assuming 50% of schools did not declare - you would still only have roughly 4 LHP per school - on a staff of 15ish... There is hope for my LHP

quote:

Originally posted by dad4boys:
This might get the discussion going. As I reviewed the 2005 rosters, some colleges have started posting the 2006 rosters and the number of pitchers coming and going is remarkable. Like a revolving door at some top SEC schools.

I am not sure I understand the point of your post.
It is not uncommon to find large pitching rosters from schools that belong in the SEC, ACC, etc.
LHPs that are able to compete at the higher levels are a rarity. You might be interested to know that if given a chance and don't perform, they are often replaced with an RHP that can get the job done.

quote:

FR SO JR SR TOTAL
284 178 269 134 865

I don't understand the large number of juniors.
You sure you didn't reverse the sophs and juniors?

The schools rosters I've seen have lots of freshmen and sophomores and far fewer upperclassmen

quote:

Wow....that is only 2.24 LHP per school......if my math is correct.

What is the figure for MLB? My guess is that 2.24 is about right for the pros which usually carry about 11 pitchers.

Maybe the good LHP's are playing in the pros

.

grateful ...

quote:

Wow....that is only 2.24 LHP per school......if my math is correct.

Most schools must have about 12-16 pitches on their rosters, I would guess.

If your figures are correct, then the 2.24 per school with 12-16 pitchers on the rosters is well above the normal percentage for lefties in the general population. Based on some reading that I did after looking at this thread, approximately 10% of the general population are lefties. At 2.24 per school, you are looking at a range of 14% to 18.7% of the pitchers being lefthanded. Kind of interesting ...

dad4, kudos for the effort

but, sometimes too much info is counterproductive


seriously tho, (while you're breaking down the other positions) have your son pick about a dozen schools that he may be interested in, based on academics, location, conference, size, chicks etc - and have him start sending intro letters

relax and let it play out



.

Here is a dad trying to take the best shot at getting his kid in school and some of you are giving him a hard time. I thought this web site was to help kids and parents do just that.
Come on, lets be constructive.

Savannah, you make a good point, although dad4boys is not being chastised as much as some have in other posts. "Constructive" is just too easy for some folks. Watch out or you both may be classified as "high maintenance".

quote:

Originally posted by micdsguy:

quote:

FR SO JR SR TOTAL
284 178 269 134 865

I don't understand the large number of juniors.
You sure you didn't reverse the sophs and juniors?

The schools rosters I've seen have lots of freshmen and sophomores and far fewer upperclassmen

You see that at some schools who rely on JUCO transfers to round out the positions that they can't get filled from the HS signings. The #1 recruiting class in the nation (reportedly) is South Carolina. SC is bringing in 13 freshman and 10 JUCO transfers. Situations like that support the Freshman/Junior weighting, but it still may be an aberation depending on where you check.

It would be interesting (not sure if it would be informative) to see numbers broken down by regions or states. The number of programs per state is so variable, including the number of instate JUCO's that I feel that you can't get a "generalized" picture. Wake Forest, for years, had a 'pipe-line' to California for the California JUCO's and transfers. With their new coach, I'm not sure if that trend is continuing.

Every school is so different, it's hard to predict anything based on overall numbers. Too much variation, but very interesting.

About 12% of the population is left handed. 18% of all major league players throw left handed according to Baseball-Almanac.com. But the great majority are pitchers.

But baseball is a right handed sport

Lefties have an advantage only at 1st base and pitcher. There are almost no lefties catching, SS, 2nd or 3rd base. Outfield is pretty neutral.

My guess is that southpaws become far more experienced on the mound than righties, who have more position options. From grade school on, a lefty will be directed toward pitching rather than other positions. That alone may eventually give them an edge in picking off runners, fielding the position and throwing trick pitches.

Tiger Paw Mom,
I'm thinking I must have misunderstood your statement:

"LHPs that are able to compete at the higher levels are a
rarity."

Uh....no....statements made in previous threads are absolutely correct. LHPs ARE a dream come true for coaches and perform EXTREMELY well at the higher levels. Your statement that "If they don't perform, they are often replaced with a RHP that can get the job done......is actually true of any pitcher lefty OR righty. Of course, a coach will and should replace a pitcher who doesn't perform. But, that pitcher will be replaced by whatever pitcher the coach feels will be able to get the job done in that situation....not necessarily a RHP. Most coaches will consider several factors as they contemplate substituting for a pitcher who is struggling or not performing up to the coaches' expectations. Among these factors......They look at where the opposing team is in their batting order and what types of pitches the next batter usually goes after. Baseball coaching is a bit more complicated than just giving a lefty a "chance" and then going back to his righties because they get the job done. Most coaches will from time to time coach match ups Lefty pitcher to lefty batter, etc. Go down the lineup of your son's team and ask if they would rather go up to bat against a lefty or right-handed pitcher. Even a lefty pitcher who is struggling will usually cause more problems for the average hitter than an RHP. There are fewer lefty pitchers in the world because there are fewer lefties in the world. It is just that simple!

Me thinks that we tend to over analyze the situations and in turn add more confusion to an already confusing trip

Know quite a few lefties who got the job done in HS, not college. I may have misinterpreted the post, that is why I asked.
Despite my post, I think that trying to figure out all of this information in percentages, on spread sheets, etc. is just too much.
If your son is good, lefty, righty, whatever, he most likely will play college baseball.

Savannah no one is giving him a hard time.

I suggest to follow Bee's advice. You have your son pick out the schools he is intrested and go for it.

We baseball folk love our stats and numbers (as I was saying to Billy Beane only the other day ), but I also question the relevance of so broad an undertaking.

Narrowed to the schools your son is interested in and qualified for, analysis of their rosters and history is valuable. But that doesn't lead logically to analyzing the universe of college baseball.

I’m with TRHit and Bee...Lets BREATH a little... but at the same time I think ALL “involved” parents are guilty of being “over-involved”. That’s better than not being involved!! Savannah, I do take this exchange as constructive. Dad4boys has confessed he is getting a little carried away with the stats and numbers. This statistical information is useful to parents in some cases but don’t put too much emphasis on it. On player stats: In the recruiting game a coach looks at many things in a young player but statistics aren’t at the top of his list and statistics may not even be on his list at all!! We parents tend to get caught up in the “good” statistics and can lose our objectivity when it comes to our sons. I quit getting wrapped up in statistics when I realized college and the conference kept “bad” statistics too! I suggested the bad statistics be printed in rose colored ink so they wouldn’t show up while I read them with my rose colored glasses.
Fungo

Now I'm torn. TR, Fungo, and Bee made great points, and we all understand that numbers are just numbers. But, baseball itself is a game of numbers. Besides the score, you have 3 outs, 3 strikes, 4 balls, ERA, OBP, K/W and on and on. If the topic would have been posted by a member that was not in the midst of understanding the recruiting process this discussion may go in a different direction. I tip my hat to dad4boys for being involved, but, bottom line I think he is more of a "numbers crunching baseball freak" than an overbearing 'high maintenance' parent.

It's 40 degrees in WI today after 85 yesterday so I'm a little on edge knowing that homeplate will have to be shoveled, not swept, I will be wearing a hat without a brim, and a glove on both hands in a few weeks.

Let me clarify my position.
1. I have never spoken to any one of my 4 kids coaches about anything related to how he runs the team. (Unless he has asked, I have coached rec and travel for a very long time)
2. I am a very good fund raiser so the coach calls on me very often.
3. My profession for 15+ years was building databases for large corporations. You can get more than you think from these numbers.
4. I will keep putting up numbers until you guys tell me to quit.
5. My 3 younger boys are right handed so I might even get around to the righties one day.
6. This project started with 20 schools and started growing out of control. Now I can't quit.

One other thing over night I searched until I was able to find data for some additional schools. FYI it is 3.5 LHPs per school.
With 334 schools reporting here are the totals
FR- 379
SO- 243
JR-357
SR-188

dad4boys...Have at it....but if it gets out of control and is affecting your personal and family life, find a support group....there has to be one.

The funny thing is my son was looking for schools at least 100 miles from home. And didn't worry about the baseball part.You wouldn't believe this thread came from that search now would you? Want to know how many lhps are within a certain mileage from my zip code?

Uh...not really. Can you tell me how many margaritas are within a three minute hobble from my house? That would be pretty useful to me right now. Home recovering from knee surgery...as if no one could tell I have time on my hands today by looking at the inordinate number of posts I've had.....crunch those numbers; compare the percieved bored poster to the truly informative poster - maybe on a regional and then nationwide basis.....

I'll PM you with my zip code and get back to me as quickly as possible on the margarita issue, please.

O.K., moderator....remind me about taking up unnecessary bandwidth. I'm starting to feel like Ramblin' Joe Morgan....

Surely all these baseball "experts" know that baseball is a thinking game and is often fascinating to people who love numbers. I'm impressed with Dad04boys and his ability to apply his intelligence to the game of baseball. You always have deviations, but you generally just can't argue with statistics! Most successful businesses invest a lot of money researching just such numbers to help their bottom line. Why should baseball be different?

KCBaseball - True, you can't argue with statistics. Also true - you will always have deviations. My shrink claims I'm a walking example...

Conclusions:
1 There is obviously a washout factor from freshman to sophmore year, either academicly, athleticly, emotionaly, financialy or both.

2 More JUCO players transfer after two years than one.

The stats are likely similar for most non-rev sports.

I know the turnover in the general student population after freshman year is high. Lots of 1st year students just don't cut it for whatever reason.

Here are the interesting numbers if you are an LHP.

12 Schools had no lhps.
110 schools had no freshmen lhps.
50 schools had no sophomore lhps.
17 schools had no junior lhps.
187 schools had no senior lhps. (1 school had 5 senior lhps)

39 schools had 3 or more freshman lhps.

One school had 6 freshmen, 2 soph, 2 jun, 2 seniors.

dad4boys just a word of caution on the rosters. Depending on when you pull the info. Some schools have pulled their 2005 grads or draft picks off the rosters but not added the Freshman. At the same time some still have the class they are in from last year posted (upcoming season player will be a Senior but is still listed as a Junior). Not trying to be negative...it's just what I observed when looking at rosters during our search.

I guess I would say if a roster causes any concerns before scratching a school of your list talk to the coach about the roster. TRY TO ENJOY the process (don't know if thats possible!) and look past the numbers at times.

NC Dad thanks for the information. Not tying to be smug but my son is very strong academically and is too short for the pros (he will top out at 5'10"-5'11") so he will be focusing more on his education. If he finds a place to play he will be very happy. I look at the numbers because a very wise man once said ..if you cannot explain the process with numbers you do not understand the process.

dad4 more kudos

a question regarding your further breakdown

common wisdom would indicate better odds if you targeted schools who are below the norm on the roster in LHP #'s

however, maybe the schools with the higher #'s of LHP rostered just recruit more LHPs

Bee,

The big time baseball schools have LHPs. The ones without lhps are the smaller schools DIII primarily and the schools in rural areas. (That is just from a quick lookover the schools.) I was suprised to see some larger schools with just a few lhps. The university of florida was the one with 6 fr, 2so, 2jr, and 2 sr. If I remember correctly.

I would have thought that there would be a lot more lefties in the ratio's. My son, a 07 righty, has played a lot of travel ball and I swear that it seems like he has faced at least as many lefties as right handed pitchers. I would say the same holds true for his HS experiences as well. 2 of our top 3 pitchers were lefties last year.