Scoring a run on a force out

The run should have been allowed if the runner on third touched the plate before the appeal. An appeal is not a force out.

There was no appeal, nor was there need for one.

quote:

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Originally posted by rcbbfan:
There was no appeal, nor was there need for one.

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Why was there no need for an appeal?

Aw, RCBBFan, Bluezebra is just messing with you. Throwing behind a runner who fails to tag up is technically an "appeal" - and it's not a "force" out. Here's how it reads in the Official Baseball Rules at MLB.com:

7.10
Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when_ (a) After a fly ball is caught, he fails to retouch his original base before he or his original base is tagged;

So, the out was an "appeal" out. And yes, it's a timing call - if the runner from third crossed the plate before the ball was received at second base the run should be counted. It's not a force play, by rule, even though it seems like one.

Ok....thanks guys. I knew you would clear that up for me. It just seemed like a double standard to me but the rule you quoted seems very clear on the subject.

BTW. The original call by the umps has been overturned. The game will resume in the top of the 10th,tied 10-10.

You are misreading the rule. That is "it can be appealed by throwing to the base." It is not an appeal when it is done immediately. THe run does not count and the runner on second is out. The play was correct as called. On Appeal, means it can be appealed in the rule book. it does not mean it has to be appealed. If the umpire is questioned or the play is actually appealed after the dead ball then it is an appeal.
I also agree that an appeal is not a force out. it is depending on the play that caused the appeal.
Per se: If the batter with a runner on third hits the ball to the short stop and he throws the ball to the first baseman. The runner on third takes off home and scores. The umpire calls the batter safe because he rules the first baseman was off the bag. If the fielding team appeals to the home plate umpire for help and he rules the batter is out, the run does not count. A force even on appeal is an out and everything is ruled in timing in relationship to the out.

Jeff, you are wrong on this one. P-Dog is correct on this one. Have you ever heard of a live ball appeal? It is indead a timing play. And by no means a force out.

Additionally the home plate official should never consider an appeal on a call at first base or any base from a coach, when his partner has already made the call. If the coach has an issue he should ask the BU if he might ask the PU for help. If that's the case the PU will give the BU what he saw and it's up to the BU to change his call or keep it the same.

Same thing. Just wording. But I disagree to some extent. If you know he missed it, you should go to him and tell him he missed it.
It is not an appeal if nothing is said. If you just throw to the base for a tag up it is not an appeal it is a play on the base. Again, I disagree. Nothing was said about an appeal. It said they threw to the base and the runner was called out and the score did not count. How can a force out not override a run? YOu must explain this one to me because it is not in the rule books as you guys are stating it. YOu are reading (this being the key words as we have discussed on another thread) something into the play that did not happen. There was no appeal. It was simply a force out because he had to tag up.

Jeff, as best I understand it, the answer to your confusion is this: When a fly ball is caught, the runner is supposed to be on the base. The minute the ball is caught and he's off the base, a potential appeal situation arises. Any throw behind him is an "appeal" to get the out called. If he doesn't tag up, and the defensive team never throws to the base, he's still safe at the next base, because he's not "out" unless his failure to be on the base is "appealed." It's not a "force" situation because he will be safe if he stays at his new base and no appeal is performed. There's no difference between a live ball appeal and an appeal performed after play has stopped. I know it seems the same as a force out, but it isn't. In a true force out the runner has to get to the next base before the ball gets there - and he has no other base to stay on. He literally is "forced" to get to a base. With a tag up he can be safe at the base he's on unless an appeal throw is made behind him to the base he left. He's not "forced" to go anywhere, but he is vulnerable to being called out on an "appeal" of his failure to be on the base when the ball was caught.

AZ Ump and P-Dog are right on this.

It is a timing play.

Think of the definition of a Force Play. The runner is being forced to advance to the next base because of the action taken by the batter-runner. The batter-runner is out, the batter-runner is not "forcing" the runner at second to advance.

A WHOLE bunch of people get this call WRONG! Parents/players and some coaches.

The EASIEST way to remember is that the runner tagging up on the base is NOT FORCED to move on to the next base as he is on a groundball if the base behind him is occupied.

He is literally running at his own risk. Thus if he runs to the next base and the defensive player makes the catch then it is a TIMING play and if the runner scores FIRST then it COUNTS.