Scoring Question

quote:

Bases loaded and 2 out. Ball hit up thje middle. CF bobbles the ball and is called an error. Easy force at 2nb if no error. Play would end the inning. 2 runs score. Are they and any susequent runs ERs ?

Since an error prolonged the inning the answer is NO.

quote:

Also runner on 1st reached on a FC. If that run scores is it ER ?

Depends on how the complete inning plays out. A runer that reaches on a fielder's choice CAN be an earned run.

Would the fact that the runner at 1st advanced to 2nd on the error not make it UER as well ?

BHD, I didn't realize you were talking about the same inning. After the error at CF which prolonged the inning, everything is moot because NO subsequent run can EVER be earned.

Just because a runner advances on an error doesn't necessarily mean that run cannot be earned. In order to determine earned or unearned runs you have to wait untill the inning is over and reconstruct the inning without errors (which exclude catcher's interference) and passed balls.

Thanks Fungo. Clearere now.

Can we back up here just a minute ... maybe I"m missing something.

If the bases are loaded with two outs, I'm assuming the runners are going on contact. I'm a little baffled when you say that a ball hit up the middle to the center fielder would have been an easy force play at 2nd had he not bobbled it. Easy force play?? From center field??

Maybe it happened differently than how I'm picturing it from your description, but it doesn't sound like the center fielder's bobbling the ball prolonged the inning. Sounds like the offense basically did their job.

And even though he may have bobbled it, it doesn't even really sound like it's worthy of being scored as an error. Two runs scored ... but isn't that what typically happens with 2 outs, bases loaded, and a ball hit up the middle to center?

I'm sure you had to be there to appreciate it, but from what you've described it sounds to me like a single, 2RBI's, with all the runs being earned, and no error on the play.

What am I missing here?

Thanks.

RPD, I agree. Sounds like a 2 run base hit to me too. BUT and I emphasize BUT; BHD said it was scored an error. CF bobbles the ball and is called an error. Easy force at 2nb if no error. Play would end the inning.

If indeed the scorer scored it an eror then you have to use that information to determine earned or unearned runs. I dunno --- maybe the CF was right behind the bag at second base.

Fungo

Another...You had to see it to score it!?

I agree, I would be hard press to score it an error on a routine/normal play/hit up the middle. I'd have to see it.

Fungo -- good point... the fact that it was actualy scored as an error.

I guess that just goes to show the power and the importance of the scorekeeper.

Also points out the degree of care that must be used in determining whether runs are earned or unearned. There could be an error by a fielder on a clean base hit that allows a runner to advance an extra base but doesn't necessarily prolong the inning.

Ahh, baseball. Gotta love it!

The CF was playing very shallow and the bobble was scored an e3rror.If the CF fielded the ball cleanl it was an easy out.

another situation with same scorer. The ball was hit to LF. Fielder played the ball onm1 hop. The ball goes through the fielders legs. Scored a triple.

I find it hard to believe a scorekeeper would give the error to the CF for failing to get the out at second. A CF getting a force out at 2nd rarely happens. As said earlier the runners would have been going on contact.

Sounds to me like the error was for allowing the second runner to score on the bobble. 1 ER.

They said the CF had a play at second and even at home if he fielded a routine GB. The fielders were all playing in. It was a 1st pitch swing so I think the runners were not all that quick off the mark.

They also called a routine one hopper to LF that was a single but runner made it to 3rd when the ball went between the fielders leg a triple. The run scored from 3rd on a sac GB. I thought that was strange. No error of LF.
Another fly ball to RF and dropped. Runner scored on Double and it was an UER.
I have noticed lots of errors in the game sheets. One pitcher pitched 1.2 innings and only gredited with .2 . Very strange.

quote:

by bbhdl: also called a routine one hopper to LF that was a single but runner made it to 3rd when the ball went between the fielders leg a triple... Another fly ball to RF and dropped. Runner scored on Double and it was an UER.
I have noticed lots of errors in the game sheets. One pitcher pitched 1.2 innings and only gredited with .2 . Very strange.

that pretty much answers the question
imo, it's useless reconstruct innings or worry about game stats if the scorer is inexperienced and/or inaccurate ... of course the game deserves better, but somtimes it's the best they can do

btw, I also can't imagine the cf charged an error as described above.
a m-if would be pressed to get the force at 2b w/runners going on contact

Agree with last post. Also, a hit up the middle is going to score at least one run regardless of an error or not (3rd out not an issue). Now, the CF can ONLY be credited with an error if the runners advance an additional base, he CANNOT be charged with an error for failing to get the guy out at 2nd on the fielder's choice play. NO WAY -- that is not scorekeeping 101, not going to happen even in the majors. He did NOT drop a ball, he only bobbled it and unless the 2nd run scores BECAUSE of his bobble, NO ERROR SHOULD BE SCORED. It is routine to score at least one run on a hit up the middle with bases loaded and NOT uncommon to score two with two outs and runners going especially with a fast runner at 2nd.

Switch,

I've read a lot of your posts, and think you are spot on, most of the time. But disagree with your NEVER COULD HAPPEN position on this....

If the CF was playing way in (as might happen in a do-or-die situation), he might have a relatively easy play on a hard hit ball to CF. If it's laced to him on one hop, where he could easily throw the runner out at 2B (by SK's judgment) then it COULD be an error that prolonged the inning. Let's say he fielded the ball, the SS covered and he had the runner going to 2b dead to rights, then threw the thing over the SS's head. Would that not be an error?

I know it is a big stretch, and it sounds like it was actually just bad scorekeeping, but I think it could happen. Especially with a drawn in OF

quote:

Originally posted by obrady:
Another...You had to see it to score it!?

Sounds like this one is pretty clear...."I see my son on the mound and it is an error.....