Screwed over players

Being on a DI program means that he has until after his junior year to be able to get drafted. SO, tell him to keep working hard on and off the field. If he is as good as you say, he may just get drafted. Never know.

He is a 6'3 215lb catcher/1b. He has a pop time of 2.0--- and is apower hitter. But if you don't see the field, how do scouts see him?

Arkansas to a JC to Division I in the Northeast---why all the moves if I may be so bold to ask and why from the midwest to the Northeast and not down south?

Long unbelievable story--- All american and junior all american in his positions---VanHorn wanted him to transfer to their sister school(UofA/Fort Smith) because he was a hitter that needed to hit. Did not want him to redshirt. Our son decided to get closer to home. We talked to Nebraska --they wanted him. We sent a "permision to talk to" to Arkansas. Within minutes got a call from Uof A Fort Smith offering him a full ride. We started transferrring his stuff to Nebraska. Sawyers at Nebraska called us and told us that Anderson(head coach) had gotten a call from VH and "out of respect and friendship for Coach VH we have to renig on our offer"...being it late in the game had to transfer to a JC. He ended up in Kansas because of a prior teamate playing there. Did well, ended his career hitting 413 56RBI-8HR played every game. Not to mention graduating with honors. The coach held back recruiting calls because our son wanted to get back to the SEC...the coach was not going to let that happen, thought he was errogent for thinking he could play at that level...blackballed him to every school that called our son----LSU, UAB, Georgia Southern, Baylor, to mention a few. It was out of our control and we could not stop him from doing it.
He ended up in the Big East out of a call that our sons Summer coach put in for him.

Long unbelievable story---you won't believe it anyway. Not his dream choice --but was at the mercy of a Junior college coach that we caught screwing players over in the recruiting situation---He screwed this kid with UAB,LSU,Georgia Southern,Baylor, AutinPeay,to mention a few. Only referred on D-2 schools and lesser D-1 programs that shovel snow off the field in March. He was in complete control of our sons athletic career.

As a grad of St John's (BIG EAST) and our porgram having players at most Big East Schools that ain;t such a bad thing. May I ask where is playing---you can PM if you wish to post it here

Bob - that is an unbelievable story.

I am guessing he wants to get drafted as a junior this year? If so, it will help much if he can find his way into the lineup. Many kids are scouted in the fall however and some drafted off their fall intrasquad performances. My son had a teammate last year who pitched only in the fall and was a late round choice of the Rays.

I am not sure what the rules are, but are college players allowed to attend pro tryouts? If so, perhaps he can attend a few of these if available and perhaps that could get him on somebody's radar. Was there any pro scout contact while he was at the JUCO? If so, I would call each of those guys you had prior contact with and ask for their advice as well.

This is another problem---he had a minor injury in the Fall that kept him off the field for 3 weeks.
He did get to hit on Scouts Day. Wasn't at full speed though. We have been told that his body type, arm and bat speed are his biggest strengths. With the emphasise on hitting.

Bob,
Your son came into a situation where there was a starting catcher already there who was going to be a senior. Don't you think that factors into the situation?

Bob,

If I’m reading this correctly… I have to say this… I can’t tell for sure if your son actually attended Arkansas Little Rock or if it is some other JUCO you’re referring to.

I personally know the Head Coach at Ft Smith, he is a good friend and an outstanding baseball coach. He is an outstanding baseball man with a great reputation. He has sent many players into DI schools and professional baseball. His major talent is in evaluating players and he does have contacts throughout baseball.

If he did what was said, he would not have the credibility and reputation he has earned. Whether it was this school or not, it sure would be nice if both sides could be heard when an accusation is made to discredit someone.

How does a player end up at a Big East College and have a former JC coach have anything to do with his current playing time. Don’t the DI Coaches at this Big East college recognize who their best players are?

It is possible that your son has had some bad breaks and is much better than his coaches think, but it’s extra unlucky to have run into so many coaches who are out to get him. They really do want to win, don’t they? I doubt there is a conspiracy with that many people involved. Sorry! I don’t think we are getting all the facts here.

Hopefully everything will turn out great and if your son doesn’t get drafted this year, he will tear it up as a senior and get his chance at pro ball. Then at that point it will all depend on his ability and his performance.

I completely agree with you---he knew he had to work hard and that the position was not going to be just handed to him. He was in that position when he transferred to his JC. He worked hard and was given an opportunity to show them what he could do and took the starting spot away. All he's asking for is a opportunity when a player in one of his positions is not hitting consistantly and making poor fielding decisions. When a player catches 27 innings in 2 days and they have 2 other catchers that could catch one of these non conference games...it can be kind of frustrating to the other players. If that senior would get hurt or be academically ineligible, having another catcher ready with some innings under their belt could prove to be helpful(especially when they can hit too.) We know that there is a natural order of things...but give a kid a chance and don't let preconcieved notions of a kid factor in on your final decision.

No offense, but I have to say that I had a hard time following your fisrt and subsequent post.

He did not go to University of Arkansas-Fort Smith.
And that coach had nothing to do with anything--they were very good to our son when he went for a visit. But he decided to get the hay out of Arkansas.
And yes,this is all true and then some. And there is a dark cloud hanging somewhere over our kid.And he keeps working hard on and off the field despite his bad luck.
I have e-mails and faxes in a file stating transfer info and renig from Nebraska based on a call from Van Horn ...just a sad reminder that coaches have to much power over our student athletes.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Sanders:
I completely agree with you---he knew he had to work hard and that the position was not going to be just handed to him. He was in that position when he transferred to his JC. He worked hard and was given an opportunity to show them what he could do and took the starting spot away. All he's asking for is a opportunity when a player in one of his positions is not hitting consistantly and making poor fielding decisions. When a player catches 27 innings in 2 days and they have 2 other catchers that could catch one of these non conference games...it can be kind of frustrating to the other players. If that senior would get hurt or be academically ineligible, having another catcher ready with some innings under their belt could prove to be helpful(especially when they can hit too.) We know that there is a natural order of things...but give a kid a chance and don't let preconcieved notions of a kid factor in on your final decision.

Bob,
This whole post shows the subjective nature of watching baseball, especially when your own kid is involved. It doesn't appear that your son is being screwed. It appears as though he is subject to the same coaching decisions that every player is. Whether he has been "given a shot", I can't say, maybe the coach already had his mind made up before the season that the senior was his guy, that happens. But you knew going in that there was an incumbent senior at your sons position, you should know that the odds of taking that players spot away is extrememly difficult.

I can't comment on what happened previous to his arrival at his new school, but from the looks of things, it would seem that your statements about being screwed at the current school are an over reaction. I would try decaf.

Bob,

Best of luck to your son. After reading your posts a bit closer, I see it wasn't Arkansas Ft Smith. That would have shocked me if it was.

The four things that create success and winning.

1 - Talent
2 - Effort
3 - Intelligence
4 - Luck

Everyone who has ever been deeply involved understands that #4 can play a huge part. It (luck) or lack of it, can be overcome by being the best in the other three categories.

Thanks for your good wishes...from your lips to God's ears...

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Sanders:
But when yo don't get played (even though his BA is highest on the tea right now)

Well sure, 1 for 1 would give you a good BA. So would 2 for 2, 3 for 3, etc.

From what I can gather, coaches at major D1 schools typically cut players from their program by politely sending them off to jucos. Am I correct in assuming this is standard practice for cutting players from the program?

Maybe in some cases--- in those cases they don't help you in your search for a home...that was not the case here. It being their sister school as such- alot of times D-1 coaches like to keep them close by (creating their own gene pool if you will) to keep a close eye on their progress. And if you are a qualifier out of highschool the 4-2-4 rule does not apply to you and they can snatch you back in a year.And while you are at the JC you are seeing live pitches, getting stronger and your body is maturing----just 45minutes away from them.

Bob Sanders,
The coach that you say held the recruiting calls back for your son, is a coach from a Kansas JUCO?

quote:

He ended up in Kansas because of a prior teamate playing there.

yes' mam he is.

It's kinda like a back injury. You wake up in the morning and for some unknown reason, your back won't work and you can't get out of bed. No one believes you. YOur work thinks your vying for extra time off. They think you're pulling something or are disguising the truth...UNTIL IT HAPPENS TO THEM! That's what your situation reminds me of. It's hard to believe until it happens to you. Why would a coach intentionally hurt a young man's chances of sompeting for his dream? It doesn't make sense, but it happens. What satisfaction does a coach get out of shattering a kids future? We had a brief encounter with it butfortunately son was not affected. I feel for your boy. Best of luck in his overcoming these obstacles and becoming stronger for them!

Thanks puma1 for your good wishes---prayers is what we need also. Tell me why a coach gives a kid a $15,000.00 scholarship and on the first day of practice(before it started) tells him that he isn't going to play much this year and probably not much next year so enjoy his time at ____.Aren't scholarships pretty precious to waste. Parents take care of your kids--and investigate the program before you give them to these men in positions of power. They screw with your kids heads and beat them down. I wonder how they would feel if it was their son? You know what they say...what goes around, comes around. We live by these words :the cream always rises to the top! And my son won't give up until he reaches his dream---despite the adversity he has to endure.

bob sanders:

I know which JUCO you are talking about, specifically. That is not the first time he has done that. The Van Horn thing is irritating as well. The coaches, in this case, act like they own the rights to the player. It's a shame.

I read over this and I am still confused. Sorry, slow sometimes. Your son signed at an SEC school, then transfered to an out of state Juco and wanted to get back to the SEC (that is virtually impossible coaches NEVER want to see that happen). He graduated JUCO and now at a Big East school? Was he ever on the roster at Arkansas? Was he offered a 'ship back then? Why didn't he go play at U of A fort Smith for a full ride?? When did LSU contact him? Where is he now?

I just can't piece this altogether.

It is just so amazing to me that so many posters have to question someone who has a bad experience. Whether it be high school or college, some always have to take the side of the coaches or the system. Most are the posters who are considered "old timers" and who's kid has been successful.

Folks, bad things do happen every once in awhile, just because your son had smooth sailing doesn't mean they all do. We all know what it takes to get to the next level, hard work, luck, talent, but we also know there will be some obstacles as well, and in a few situations it is out of our control!

TPM-he played fall ball with U of A---There was not a spot for him with an All American on first and a junior all american behind the plate.Van Horn creates his own gene pool at U of A/Fort Smith. Sends players there that he wants to keep an eye on. There was our son and another player sent down for a visit. Our son was offered a full ride there.
But he wanted to get closer to home if he had to go the JC route. In the mean time Nebraska made him an offer--Since he was a qualifier out of highschool he could of still played that Spring for Nebraska--then they renig on the offer from a call from VH. VanHorn had just lost another Nebraska kid he recruited 2 years prior back to Nebraska (Andy Gerch) and there was hard feeling over that situation. He made sure that it didn't happen again.
He told Anderson @Nebraska that our son would never hit in College that his swing was to long. VH told the assistant coach at U of A /FS that he was going to be a big Div 1 hitter. I have a copy of the fax he sent to Fort Smith. So in turn our son had to search for a JC. He chose this JC because he new some of the players already and he was closer to home. LSU contacted the JC coach in May of 2007. We knew about the call because a good friend of ours had our son's info walked into the bb office at LSU.
And we talked to Coach Rooney personally before we approached the coach. WE waited 2 weeks after the call had been made and nothing had been passed on. So we approached the coach after a game about it. He became nasty and got 3 inches from my face yelling "how dare you question my integrity"...With what has gone on with our son since--I know that there was NO integrity to even question. He has none and either does the adminisrtation at this JC.
Our son is at the Div 1 level-happy to be there-would like more play time--but will continue to work hard, get stronger, and persue his dreams on and off the field. In the end perserverence and talent out lasts politics.--And in the end he will have his integrity and that's something no coach on any level can take away from him.

Getting the facts out, ( and holding off on the bickering between posters ) will probably benefit all of us.
This is a already a complicated scenario as is.

OldSlugger---we are parents and were told that Div. 1 coaches don't want to hear from us. That is part of JC coaches job description---they advertise "where they've gone" on their baseball websites----They just don't say "they had to get ther on their own --cause we don't help or care for that matter--except how it makes me look.
You can question our actions all you want or the facts of our story. But as far as Coaches not being about gossip---they might not call it that because that is more of a word used when referring to teenage girls---but they are worse when it comes to talking -----about each other. Ask VH sometime how he really feels about Anderson and his program at Nebraska---and then tell me that they are above GOSSIP--And about winning, you are right they are all about winning---that's job security to them. But don't tell me that they don't favor one player over another and base it soley on talent. I would laugh in your face. So what doesn't kill ya only makes you stronger!

OLDSLUUGER8,

You made me delete mine as well!
Except the one that was not referring to you.

This jury does not have jurisdiction in your case...............

quote:

He became nasty and got 3 inches from my face yelling "how dare you question my integrity"...With what has gone on with our son since--I know that there was NO integrity to even question. He has none and either does the adminisrtation at this JC.

This is why you don't complain to coaches. It can get very nasty and have long reaching affects on your ball player.

quote:

If there are incumbent players who have proven themselves at the college level at your position, be prepared to wait your turn.

Bob Sanders,

I can see how the things you've described could have happened.

What bothers me though, is the fact that you are posting names and college programs in a very negative way without any rebuttal from those you are mentioning.

While what you claim may be true, how are we to know that everything you've posted is true or maybe slanted somewhat? We don't even know who you are!

I do know the people you've mentioned, but unfortunately they are not on here posting their side.

Surely you can understand how much damage can be done by an anonymous poster who might have an agenda. Not saying that is the case here, but will say, if I were a college coach... I would consider you dangerous!

That said, I hope your son does overcome any obstacles he has experienced along the way. Just don't understand why you don't just turn the page and move forward? Being vindictive doesn't accomplish anything and it could possibly get in the way.

BTW, I was the one who mentioned luck. It is a very important ingredient in many things that happen in baseball, both good and bad. Surely everyone understands that! It's not a matter of believing in luck, it just helps to know that it exists. Sometimes people can create their own Bad Luck!

Funny that Mr Sanders, if that is a true name, has mentiobned every college the Big East school involved in this picture---I wonder why?

quote:

Originally posted by thats-a-balk!:
It is just so amazing to me that so many posters have to question someone who has a bad experience. Whether it be high school or college, some always have to take the side of the coaches or the system. Most are the posters who are considered "old timers" and who's kid has been successful.

I wasn't questioning I was trying to figure out what exactly the scenerio was. The reason us "old timers" may question is because we have been there and seen more than those who have not had kids been recruited or stepped foot on a college baseball field. Unfortunetly or fortunetly, those of you will learn that someday, hopefully not with a situation such as this one. Many of us will try to steer you in teh right direction, but I can assure you that there are many things you and your player have to learn on your own.

I am not going to take anyone's side, but I am strongly going to agree with PG. Lots of names dropped here and only ONE side. A coach should not be judged by what happened by hearing ONE side on a message board. I am thinking of the time when UF coach had to take control and let players go last summer, what a bad guy facing 46 on roster with a new transfer rule in effect. Once the whole story came to light, he wasn't such a bad guy anymore.

I am not taking a side because we all perceive things differently, and what may appear to be a player that was screwed over may actually be real life in college baseball. But I will not call Bob out for what he has experienced. Myabe once yu are given sifferent opinions, you may see things differently, I know it was your son and it becomes personal.
Couple of more things to clarify, you mentioned he played/signed with U of A, then was stated there was no spot for him, there has to be if he signed an NLI. There doesn't have to be if he walked on. And your son had to have known that there were others in front of him. VH is not the only coach to send players to other programs to get in playing time while they await their turn, it happens ALL of the time. I'd rather my player given an alternative option than to sit, whether at a smaller D1 (now that's harder because of new transfer rules) or a JUCO. You mentioned he got 15K (was it him) yet no playing time. Did you feel that his scholarship amount meant he would be the starter? This confuses me because $$ doesn't mean you have a start.

Coaches do NOT like their players leaving and then trying to get back into the same conference at another program. In fact many who release you will give you stipulations. Coach Rooney is a stand up guy, but did a flag go up because the player was once at Arkansas? If the original coach found this out, yes, he most likely would be ****ED. IMO there are things you do and don't do. Too many paths to cross, everyone knows everyone else's business. If he sent word out to programs not to take your son, well, unfortunetly, coaches, even rivals, often stand together. Is it right, I have no clue. You may think coaches don't communicate, wrong.

Your son wants to get drafted, often times those players that move frequently lose consistancy in their game (my opinion on that) having to adjust to new coaches, new team, new school, new coaches system. And he had an issue last fall. Try to go with the flow and not beat your head against the wall and lay blame to your son not playing because of what happened, he has another year to play, and if he is as good as you state and gets playing time, he just migh make it.

Good luck.

I thought this was a web that parents could share their concerns about their kids situations and ask for advice(lucky or unlucky) As far as being vedictive I think "I will let go and let God." But as far as other parents are concerned --I just want them to make sure they educate themselves on the programs making all the promises to their sons. We walked in unprepared--and I am far from dangerous...that would be the the adjective I would use to describe some coaches. I never attacked a coach---we just asked a question. He attacked me.
We just wanted him to know we knew about the call.
You are so quick to judge---what would of you done if it was your son (this should be good)--
And who cares what my name is--does it matter? You seem to hide behind TRhit...is there a middle name to that? I appreciate the helpful advice, good wishes and inspirational quotes that I have recieved...Life is to short to listen to people that think they know what its like to walk in my sons shoes--and then judge our integrity to boot!

Bob ....

Most people here know who TR is and his affiliation to baseball. You can find out by checking his profile.

It's dangerous to name names on a bulletin board. Even if you are right it's still your slanted view of the situation. It's not fair to the coaches and programs involved. It's not fair to your son. Baseball is a small world. You never know what the conswquences of your actions could be.

Bob,
Sharing your story was good, people learn from other's situations. Naming names is not good if you remain anonymous, that is NOT fair.

Don't judge us all by what one person's post, however parents should not always assume that by telling their story they will get everyone's full support. Sharing is important but be prepared to not always hear what you wish to hear.

One thing you stated, you MUST be educated, your post helps to let folks know what goes on.

And everyone knows who TR is, it's in his profile.