Second son's recruiting journey: should he do anything differently than older bro?

this is great question...I will be watching. I have a 2017 and 2019 as well. The 2019 is bigger, stronger and has more power age adjusted...but not as consistent. The crazy thing is he is more projectable but hasn't had the production or success like his brother at any level as of yet.

He is playing with the same travel program and will be seen by many of the same network of coaches, it will be interesting.

smoke - I'll have some thoughts later - we went through this.  Quickly though, we found that all of the coaches were well aware of who older brother was (or figured it out quickly).  No introduction needed.

We found it to be quite helpful in getting younger son a look...and probably the benefit of the doubt.

I suspect you already know the answer having been through the gauntlet your 2017 went through.  As a parent, it got significantly easier because you know what is under your control and what is not.  For 2019 introductions, I wouldn't mention 2017 at all and I don't think the coaches will care much...they are after the best baseball players they can get admitted.  They may bring 2017 up in conversation or emails, but it won't matter once they begin recruiting 2019.  For 2019, I would approach the same schools that 2017 got turned down if they are schools he is genuinely interested in and is a good fit for.  Let them make that decision.  He is 100% a different ball player and student, but he has the benefit of your experiences.

Where there may be a challenge for you is objectivity.  You had both positive and negative experiences with many schools with 2017, and it is going to be somewhat difficult to not let those thoughts or feelings creep in.  Hey, we're all adult here and it happens.  There are certain coaches that I thought were "less than worthy of their colleges uniform".  Let you son make those assessments.   A lesson I learned with my middle son is to not make any assumptions whatsoever.....start with a clean slate.  Even though my middle son was interested in the same college major, he had vastly different thoughts about baseball.  JMO.

Good luck!

smokeminside posted:

2019 is about to follow 2017's steps down the recruiting path, and I expect it will be much the same one as his older brother's.  Similar package (though 5 inches taller and still growing):  good speed, 3.9 gpa, singles/doubles hitter, high walks/ks ratio, plus arm. Ivy/academic D3 hopes.

I know I need to figure out the combination of showcases and travel ball he'll pursue.  What I'm not sure about is how he should introduce himself to coaches who already know his older brother.  2017's search was thorough enough that he had repeated contact for over a year with several coaches who 2019 will also be contacting.

Example: 2017 played for the same coach at Stanford Camps two summers in a row.  NOT where 2017 ended up, but high on 2019's list.

How should 2019's introductory emails make mention of 2017?  Should 2019 be careful about how to approach schools whose offers 2017 turned down?

Other thoughts you folks might have?

Do these questions even matter, once 2019's at a showcase, doing his thing?

Maybe by the time my 2022 gets to this stage, I'll have all this figured out.

 

Just a thought, Smoke: from a recruiting perspective, is it really a similar package? I would think 5+ inches taller -- if he has his brother's speed -- would be perceived much more favorably by college coaches . . . Kind of goes to Old_School's point about projectability. Obviously everything worked out terrifically for your 2017, but might it be that your 2019 will have even more options?

Your question is:

should he do anything differently than older bro?

...and it's a good one.

You have devoted significant time and resources to support your older boy's quest to play baseball in college. I have no doubt that you'll do the same for his younger brother.  Should YOU do anything differently? If 2019 is right, maybe a focus on more  D1 exposure when you choose events.  But the question is should HE do anything differently.  Well, that's up to him and what he wants. If he wants to be at the same sort of excellent school big brother is going to, he knows what he has to do. If his ambition is Ivy or other D1, then he probably needs to step it up even more.  

smokeminside posted:

...  What I'm not sure about is how he should introduce himself to coaches who already know his older brother.  2017's search was thorough enough that he had repeated contact for over a year with several coaches who 2019 will also be contacting.

...

How should 2019's introductory emails make mention of 2017?  Should 2019 be careful about how to approach schools whose offers 2017 turned down?

 

...

 

Depends on how good 2017 is 

Seriously though, that's a bit tricky.  If the general thought is that these coaches were impressed with 2017, it could be advantageous to use it as a point of reference, just as an initial attention grab.  Argument can be made both ways - mention or not.  You are likely the only one that has enough background to make that determination.  The important thing is that the focus is 2019 selling himself and not his brother.

As JBB said, most coaches will know anyway, particularly if the last name is at all distinctive.  Whether or not 2017 is mentioned, perhaps 2019 should provide some specific information related to his target schools and academic goals that will send the message that he will likely take a different path than his brother.     

Smoke, I wouldn't have your 2019 mention anything about your 2017.  Concur with above: 2019 is a completely different player, personality, physical makeup.  2019 will benefit from your experience and knowledge with the process.

Smoke,

Hope your family is doing great.  Back at it again!  Once you know the drill, it gets much easier to take the path best suited to your next guy.

I agree with Fenway.  My 2016 did not mention my 2012 in any initial contacts.  Coaches figured it out and discussed 2012 with 2016, but that was about it.  Ultimately he was fishing in an entirely different pond. 

2016 did note on his player profile / resume that his brother was a D1 SS / RHP.  It really didn't mean much.  Coaches were looking at 2016 for his abilities and didn't really care.

Take advantage of the access to contacts. The older brother will provide the younger brother some benefit of the doubt. But do they have the same talent potential and same academic desires?

i have a daughter and son who went through the process. I don't have experience with two of the same gender following the same path. But I do have an observation from a friend's two sons. The boys are four years apart. 

Son 1 was a PG Top 50. He attended a top ranked power five. He was drafted in the first round. He has had a serviceable MLB career for a few years. Son 2 was recruited to the same program. He was also drafted in the late 20's out of high school.

The first time I saw Son 2 play was two games in a Legion regional after he signed his NLI. As I sat there I was thinking, "This kid can't carry his brother's jock." The kid wasn't better than my son. He wasn't even the best player on the field. The more noticeable player was headed for the Big East (before it imploded). 

The kid went on to the top ranked program. He had trouble getting on the field. He got about 20 at bats. He was at a JuCo the following year. He went on to have two adequate seasons at a mid major. 

If I'm passing on anything make an honest assessment of the second son. Don't assume he's at the same level as the first son just because baseball people are willing to make that assumption. And he might be better than the first son.

When my son was being recruited by showcase programs one coach started making assumptions about my son due to two dads I played college summer ball with. I think he started assuming my son would be as good as their sons. One was the first rounder in this story. I knew better.

Thanks, everyone.  As usual, very thoughtful, and helpful, responses.

Old School: our situations are remarkably similar!

JBB: I think 2019 will benefit from the good will 2017 has built up over the last year, especially with a couple of coaches who eventually said no, but were unusually generous with their time even after they told 2017 he didn't fit their plans.

2019: I think they ARE different players, but they have similar academic/baseball goals so sometimes I don't distinguish the differences their futures may hold.  And I don't want to get my hopes up to much!

I do think Cabbage Dad's comment about it depending on how good 2017 is, is a very clear insight.  When 2017 started this process I had NO doubt that he would be extremely competitive at ALL D3 schools, and that it would be easy for him to find a spot.  When some D3s started to say "No, thanks" I was surprised.  I thought the possible reaches might be Ivy league schools, not D3s.  So I ended up learning a lot more about the D3 landscape and how varied it is. 2019 is aware of what's ahead and one concession he's made is to drop soccer to devote more time to lifting and conditioning.

I'm still not sure that the schools that said no actually have better programs than the schools that offered him spots, but I was grateful that they were all, every one of the D3's anyway, exceedingly clear about where 2017 stood with them.  The schools that said no, said they were looking for guys who could outright mash.  My guy is a contact guy, not a masher, so there was an obvious reason they didn't pursue him.  I do hope those schools looking for mashers might see what they need in my 2019.  He's going to give them a shot, anyway, and it won't matter to him if they said no to 2017.

A little bit of clarification:  I have already heard from some objective (theoretically, anyway), and knowledgeable local baseball folks that 2019 is more projectable than 2017 is, if only because of his height.

I'm just trying to be objective.  2019 doesn't stand out from 2017 to me, but he is still growing into his body, he's working hard in the weight room and he's pretty driven. 

His last name is distinctive: Smithfield-von Rohrkamp, so coaches might remember it.  J/K, but it IS unusual enough that they'll remember it if they aren't brain dead.  He has the same academic goals as his brother: using baseball to get into the best academic school possible, so it looks to me like he'll take a similar path at this point.

Fenway, I'm comfortable with this being my son's journey, not mine.  If a school is  a good fit, I'm all for it. I didn't meet a coach that I thought poorly treated my 2017.  There was some miscommunication along the way with a school or two, but frankly, I'm surprised there is not more.  There are so MANY moving parts in this process that I think it's a minor miracle that players who are solid talents (but not d1 studs) find places at all.  There are a LOT of solid talents; I'm immensely grateful my 2017 found an exciting place to play, and, obviously, I'm hopeful my 2019 has similar results.

Gov, RJM, Branson, and JCG: I think we won't mention 2017 and we will just let the recognition factor, if there is any, be organic and up to the coaches.  I don't know how good 2019 is, other than if he keeps his grades up, I do believe he'll be an interesting player for some high academic D3.  Ivy or Patriot League is another question entirely and I've decided I just don't know enough to understand where he might fit there.

Thanks again, everyone.  Really appreciate your help.

smoke - Sorry its taken me a little while.  Don't have my thoughts fully formed.

But a few things we did second time around.  IMO, #1 and #2 are the most important.

1. Applied lessons learned from first time.  Example: Didn't need to attend every event someone suggested.  Sifted through events/teams and used the events best suited for targeted schools.  Didn't need to cast the target school net widely either, just figure out the schools where there was a chance and son could(?) be a fit and try to get in front of them.
2. Tailored the process to the individual.  Older son was a tall 93 mph RHP.  Younger son was a smallish (5-10) 86 mph RHP.  Older one was gonna look great in a showcase, younger one maybe not - so why burn $$ on showcases?  Especially big time ones where the 92+ guys would be there in droves.
3. Engage the HS coach earlier and better.  Younger son had the benefit of a GREAT HS coach - so why not utilize his connections, abilities...and friendship.  Engaged him early, followed his rules and asked for his assistance.  Couldn't have worked out better.
4. Utilize the 'connections' gained from the first time.  Wrote too, talked too college coaches we met the first time around.  Talked to them as partners, told them what our priorities were, asked for their advice.  Worked out well.  Also, much better understanding of the travel coaches/program landscape.  Zeroed in on the best one quicker.    
5. Stayed patient.  Our younger son didn't even go to travel ball until his sophomore year in HS.  Oh sure, he had done local tournaments since he was 10 years old on a local team (effectively his league's all star tournament) and so the area knew who he was.  We saw other kids racing to the front of the line - we stayed patient.  Even when we heard teammates were getting offers from a dream school, we stayed patient - and in the end, he got the offer and attended the same dream school.