Seeking help from veteran scorekeepers

First of all, I'm not sure about giving an error due to an out being recorded at 2nd. You don't say the batter advanced to 2nd, only that he wasn't thrown out at 1st.

Secondly, if the runs did score before 3 outs could have been recorded if the double play had been turned, I don't see how any of them could be unearned. I'm curious to see what others think about this situation and how they'd score the play. Depending on when the 2nd out was made, that will definitely have an impact on how many, if any, of those runs were unearned.

I was always told that you can NEVER assume a double play will be made, so scoring the play as a FC for B2 with the out being made 6-4 @ 2B would seem logical to me. Sometimes we KNOW that the play should be made but we still can't treat it as an error ... again, we can't assume a double play.

ShapsMa

You scored it right. This is only an error if the player who hit the ball advances to second as a result of the fielding mistake. The runs are earned.

Steve

"It might be, it could be, it is.........

If there had been an error -- and there only would have been an error had the runner advanced to first -- the error would have been on the throw. A "dig" is not ordinary effort, no matter how often the player makes that play. By rule, as soon as that throw bounces the errors is on the thrower, just as a ball that gets past the catcher is always a wild pitch if it bounces first.

another prime example of why most HS stats are not worth the newsprint they are printed on.
No error, runs are earned.

NFHS rule 9-6 art 5 exceptions c
"Neither catcher or infielder is charged with an error for a wild throw in an attempt to complete a double play unless the throw is so wild that it permits a runner to advance an additional base"

Gotta agree with highlander mom, out was recorded at second, so it is simply a FC 6-4. No error.

Thanks for the input everyone. I now know I scored it right.

06catcherdad---Thanks. To expand on how these runs would have been unearned if scoring an error would have been appropriate. R1 forced out at 2B (out1), batter-runner2 safe on E3 at 1B. Next batter BB, runners at 1B and 2B. Next batter strikes out(out2). Would have been out three if 1B holds throw from double play. No runs would have scored. With the inning prolonged, next batter BB, now runners at 1B, 2B, and 3B. Next batter hits double scoring three runs. Next batter grounds out for third out. All three runs scored after inning prolonged in 'error' scenerio.

Highlandermom--Thanks. I had heard that also. However in reading the rules, an error can be scored against a fielder who does not hold onto a throw from another fielder when completing a double or triple play if the throw beats the runner. Inserted from rule 10.14(c) No error shall be charged against any fielder when he makes a wild throw in attempting to complete a double play or triple play, unless such wild throw enables any runner to advance beyond the base he would have reached had the throw not been wild. NOTE: When a fielder muffs a thrown ball which, if held, would have completed a double play or triple play, charge an error to the fielder who drops the ball and credit an assist to the fielder who made the throw. This is why I was asking if making a dig would be considered 'ordinary effort'. If so, E3 in this case.

jemaz--Thanks for advise on 'dig'.

piaa_ump--Thank you. I couldn't agree with you more. I would just as soon keep the scorebook for our ourselves. Here in Colorado, the Rocky Mountain News has a web site that tracks stats for every team in the state. They post batting and pitching stats for every player. IMHO, they're not real useful because of parents..like me doing the books. However our coach wants me to report the stats to RMN. This is why I'm trying to learn so I can be as accurate as possible.

It's so simple---Throw the ball, catch the ball.

Colo05Dad ...

Since the coach wants you to keep score for the RMN, wouldn't he also want to review the scorebook before anything was submitted? Our high school coach always had a book going in the dugout (by a player) but the coach had the final say-so on things. Even at the college level, when we know our official scorekeeper (in the booth) has made a mistake (hits vs errors, who to charge with the error, etc.), we quite often see a change in the published scoring (thru the NCAA scorebook on line info) that is a result of the coach correcting the scorekeeper. Anyway, just figured your coach would want to review the book before anything is sent out.

ShapsMa

Good point Highlandermom. Our coach is not a real detail person. One of the assistant coaches keeps a book in the dugout, but when approached about comparing scoring, he said he'd trust my book for reporting. Sood luck in your season.

It's so simple---Throw the ball, catch the ball.

Colo05Dad,

There is no rule 10.14(c)in the NFHS rule book, are you looking at MLB rules?
PIAA Ump nailed in on the head when he quoted rule NFHS rule 9-6 art 5 exceptions c.

Here is a useful sight if you are interested.Patricks Scorecard

PIAA Ump,

Question for you. When reading the rule I got confused (not unusual for me), Is a passed ball/Dropped third strike ruled as an error? WE always scored it as a K/passed ball but never really charged it as an error. Makes ense that it should be.

Had a play last year dropped third strike, catcher throught the ball into the outfield and gave up 2 runs, would that then be 2 errors on that play for the catcher?

Play every game as if it were your last

BigWI,

Yes, I'm reading the MLB rules. I did not think there would be a difference when it came to scoring the game. I know NFHS does have different rules about play. I'll get a copy of the NFHS rules and read them. Thanks for your help.

If I may address your question about the DTS/Passed ball question. The DTS/PB is not recorded as an error. I believe you would score it DTS/PB 2-3PO if the catcher makes the throw to 1B to record the out and counts as a strike out. If runner makes it to 1B safely, it's recorded DTS/PB and still counts as strike out. Passed Balls are not recorded as errors, are tracked in the stats for catchers, and are treated as errors when replaying an inning to determaine earned runs.

In your example of the catcher thowing ball into outfield on DTS, charge error(throwing) to catcher for any bases advanced by runners because for the errant throw.

It's so simple---Throw the ball, catch the ball.