just trying to be a "devil's advocate"
just trying to be a "devil's advocate"
just trying to be a "devil's advocate"
Thanks PD,Dbat. I agree with statement about select coach's reputation. Will fill out player info, have select coach fill out his part and send to college directly. He's agreed to do it. At this point the college coaches have seen son for themselves a few times so they have an idea about skills, potential. I think they're looking for personality, work traits. thanks again for taking time to respond.
Good luck to your son. I have heard so many horror stories about HS coaches and vendettas. Of course there are good HS coaches and some great ones. But the bad ones seem to be really bad.
quote:.... If the kid is still playing baseball and pitching well, the right people will find him @ the local high school.
Melynda -- Right on!
If you can play, someone will give you the opportunity.
My experience on HS Coaches for the most part is that the better HS coaches either coach some form of select ball in the summer, or at least follow and stay informed of what goes on in the summer. The bad ones are typically clueless about what goes on in the summer, or either don't care.
JMO.
JMO.
The paradigm of summer ball has shifted to a more exposure-oriented venue (for the player) then the end-goal of 'league championships' or a berth to CM WS (or any of the now 17 or so 'national championships' available).
But I would echo what Lynn wrote regarding most coaches in the area and the motivation for coaching. I don't know why teams are springing up all over the place, but the market must be dictating, to some degree, the emergence of new teams/organizations.
In some way, these new teams/organizations must think they can offer something no one else can or perhaps they simply think they can do a better job. Whatever the rationale, there seems to be a place for them.
How many different ways can we say hit the ball, throw the ball, catch the ball?
Organizations operating with integrity who teach beyond the game without losing the art of teaching the game will be fine. The reason I've followed Shayne around the past few years is because he fits the template. I know his vison, what motivates him and what he desires to see in the teams he runs. I enjoy 'working' in that type of organization.
The best league format I've seen is the one Lynn's Heat played in last summer. DH on Wed leaving weekends for the tourneys/showcases. League play is a necessary nuisance for select teams, at least in Lone Star (I don't say that condescendingly, just by observation).
I do like the idea of the consolidation, but that inevitably leaves out teams who think they belong. Which will lead to this discussion again.
But hopefully I'll have enough sense to go to bed when it comes up again.
But I would echo what Lynn wrote regarding most coaches in the area and the motivation for coaching. I don't know why teams are springing up all over the place, but the market must be dictating, to some degree, the emergence of new teams/organizations.
In some way, these new teams/organizations must think they can offer something no one else can or perhaps they simply think they can do a better job. Whatever the rationale, there seems to be a place for them.
How many different ways can we say hit the ball, throw the ball, catch the ball?
Organizations operating with integrity who teach beyond the game without losing the art of teaching the game will be fine. The reason I've followed Shayne around the past few years is because he fits the template. I know his vison, what motivates him and what he desires to see in the teams he runs. I enjoy 'working' in that type of organization.
The best league format I've seen is the one Lynn's Heat played in last summer. DH on Wed leaving weekends for the tourneys/showcases. League play is a necessary nuisance for select teams, at least in Lone Star (I don't say that condescendingly, just by observation).
I do like the idea of the consolidation, but that inevitably leaves out teams who think they belong. Which will lead to this discussion again.
But hopefully I'll have enough sense to go to bed when it comes up again.
Andy---
Just noticed your post and your last name rings a bell. Are you related to Pam, female pioneer ump?? Curiosity aroused is all....
Just noticed your post and your last name rings a bell. Are you related to Pam, female pioneer ump?? Curiosity aroused is all....
quote:Originally posted by PAmom:
Andy---
Just noticed your post and your last name rings a bell. Are you related to Pam, female pioneer ump?? Curiosity aroused is all....
PAmom,
No. I used to get that when she was active.
The old "if your good enough they will find you" is so outdated and unrealistic. This may be true for the 6'4" lefty throwing 90+ (what are the chances that kid will be playing ball anyway) or the kid mashing 15 HR's. What about the rest? If your recruitment strategy is wait for your high school coach to "sell" your kid's talents, chances are that you and your son will be greatly disappointed.
You have to have a plan/strategy. Yes, even a bad strategy is better than no strategy. It must be a mixture of high school ball, select, showcases, camps, etc... At a minimum you want the high school coach to say your son is a good kid with a great work ethic. As in the earlier post, all college coaches will want some feedback from the high school coach. I was told by the former Rice asst that they usually sign one kid a year that they first saw in one of their camps. They usually follow them back through the spring hs season then through the summer tournaments. All this has to be wrapped in reality of where your kid can compete. You would amazed at how many kids leave D1 programs even with scholly money for a variety of reasons (playing time, development, etc...)
You have to have a plan/strategy. Yes, even a bad strategy is better than no strategy. It must be a mixture of high school ball, select, showcases, camps, etc... At a minimum you want the high school coach to say your son is a good kid with a great work ethic. As in the earlier post, all college coaches will want some feedback from the high school coach. I was told by the former Rice asst that they usually sign one kid a year that they first saw in one of their camps. They usually follow them back through the spring hs season then through the summer tournaments. All this has to be wrapped in reality of where your kid can compete. You would amazed at how many kids leave D1 programs even with scholly money for a variety of reasons (playing time, development, etc...)
BigDoggie -- If you're a poor Hispanic kid living in Farmers Branch, waiting for High School may be the only option.
Its the only option if you let it be. You have to take proactive approach:
1. Realistic eval of your kid
2. What collegiate level does this equate to
3. Talk to your high school coach for feedback and direction
4. Come up with a hitlist of colleges (academic and athletic)
5. Do some homework
While the cost of select baseball is pricing it out of the reach of many, there are still options. THe Houston RBI Foundation has teams for underpriv kids http://houstonrbi.bravehost.com/
Good luck.
1. Realistic eval of your kid
2. What collegiate level does this equate to
3. Talk to your high school coach for feedback and direction
4. Come up with a hitlist of colleges (academic and athletic)
5. Do some homework
While the cost of select baseball is pricing it out of the reach of many, there are still options. THe Houston RBI Foundation has teams for underpriv kids http://houstonrbi.bravehost.com/
Good luck.
If the "child" is still a Farmers Branch L.L. phenomenon at 12 years old, and still yet to be "discovered", I'll consider having my people call his people and baseball business can be discussed at that time. 
Dawg
One avenue you have left out is the college/pro tryouts. Most of these are free. I believe there was a poor hispanic lefthanded pitcher from RL Turner this year who received a full scholarship from Grayson via a tryout.
If you can play (I mean really play, not just play in mommy and daddy's eyes) and get it done you will get your opportunity in college.
Pro scouts have associates everywhere. A lot of high school coaches are associates. They tell their bosses about good players, not just the prospects but "good" players. College coaches call the scouts when they have a spot to fill. Word gets around. College coaches attend pro tryouts. There were at least 7 college guys at the MLB "open" tryout last year in Dallas. The Braves just had an open tryout a couple of weeks ago at UTA. Tampa has an open tryout a Brookhaven College in July. The D-Backs had an open tryout in McKinney this past summer.
Elite summer team coaches scout HS games looking for players. They make note of good players, even ones who can't afford to play on their teams. College guys talk to them about players they have seen, word gets around.
If you can play, your opportunity can be had. The right people will find you.
You don't need a strategy, what you need is talent.
One avenue you have left out is the college/pro tryouts. Most of these are free. I believe there was a poor hispanic lefthanded pitcher from RL Turner this year who received a full scholarship from Grayson via a tryout.
If you can play (I mean really play, not just play in mommy and daddy's eyes) and get it done you will get your opportunity in college.
Pro scouts have associates everywhere. A lot of high school coaches are associates. They tell their bosses about good players, not just the prospects but "good" players. College coaches call the scouts when they have a spot to fill. Word gets around. College coaches attend pro tryouts. There were at least 7 college guys at the MLB "open" tryout last year in Dallas. The Braves just had an open tryout a couple of weeks ago at UTA. Tampa has an open tryout a Brookhaven College in July. The D-Backs had an open tryout in McKinney this past summer.
Elite summer team coaches scout HS games looking for players. They make note of good players, even ones who can't afford to play on their teams. College guys talk to them about players they have seen, word gets around.
If you can play, your opportunity can be had. The right people will find you.
You don't need a strategy, what you need is talent.
Ego-
Talent is a given, thought that was obvious. If the kid can't play none of this matters.
You're right about the MLB try-outs. But using these as a avenue to gain exposure, you obviously have a strategy. Very, very seldom (if any) does it just happen that a kid will get to the next level.
Yes, you must nhave talent, but you must have an idea of what level you can play and go forward.
Dawg
Talent is a given, thought that was obvious. If the kid can't play none of this matters.
You're right about the MLB try-outs. But using these as a avenue to gain exposure, you obviously have a strategy. Very, very seldom (if any) does it just happen that a kid will get to the next level.
Yes, you must nhave talent, but you must have an idea of what level you can play and go forward.
Dawg
I am a new poster. I have spent alot of time reading through various posts, as far back as this post in August. This post struck me as what the Message Board should be about-improving the overall baseball program for all players.
It would appear that since this post in August that Coach Qualkenbush is starting to put himself in a position to make a difference.
Coach Qualkenbush is now:
BBI 18U Vice President
Connie Mack President
It is one thing for someone to say things should change. It is incredible when an individual takes it upon himself to get involved to this extent. Not only that, but his whole staff is involved.
I hope that everyone recognizes that this could be the start of a new era. This is obviously not a guy who justs sits back and says how things should be. I will personally find away to support Coach Qualkenbush to form a better system for all players.
It would appear that since this post in August that Coach Qualkenbush is starting to put himself in a position to make a difference.
Coach Qualkenbush is now:
BBI 18U Vice President
Connie Mack President
It is one thing for someone to say things should change. It is incredible when an individual takes it upon himself to get involved to this extent. Not only that, but his whole staff is involved.
I hope that everyone recognizes that this could be the start of a new era. This is obviously not a guy who justs sits back and says how things should be. I will personally find away to support Coach Qualkenbush to form a better system for all players.
I wish Coach Q much success -- especially since he is a former Plano East player. But...
In what ways will he form a better "system" for all players? I must have slept through the campaign.
In what ways will he form a better "system" for all players? I must have slept through the campaign.
But after reading through countless posts, you tend to get an overall feeling for how people feel.
So my comments are based strickly from an overall impression of what has been said by many.
It just appears that Coach Q is leading by example-running his team in a manner that benefits all their players. I have asked around and it seems he puts into practice what he believes, that there are still "good organizations that care about the kids first and not the money". There just needs to be even more organizations like this. Once all teams put aside their territorial disputes, then everyone can work together.
The other thing I noticed from other posts is the feeling that the Big Boys offer more exposure
for their players. Once you have spent countless amounts of money over the years to gain exposure for your son to receive a scholarship, you could have paid for their college. A scholarship at that point is only a refund.
A refund would be nice, but when the is all over, you need to end up with an individual that remembers baseball as a game, not as a business.
Not asking anyone to agree, just making an observation
So my comments are based strickly from an overall impression of what has been said by many.
It just appears that Coach Q is leading by example-running his team in a manner that benefits all their players. I have asked around and it seems he puts into practice what he believes, that there are still "good organizations that care about the kids first and not the money". There just needs to be even more organizations like this. Once all teams put aside their territorial disputes, then everyone can work together.
The other thing I noticed from other posts is the feeling that the Big Boys offer more exposure
for their players. Once you have spent countless amounts of money over the years to gain exposure for your son to receive a scholarship, you could have paid for their college. A scholarship at that point is only a refund.
A refund would be nice, but when the is all over, you need to end up with an individual that remembers baseball as a game, not as a business.
Not asking anyone to agree, just making an observation
quote:Originally posted by rangerspitcher:
The other thing I noticed from other posts is the feeling that the Big Boys offer more exposure for their players.
Once you have spent countless amounts of money over the years to gain exposure for your son to receive a scholarship, you could have paid for their college. A scholarship at that point is only a refund.
And how are these two things related? Reading the post, it seemed to imply that they somehow are related.
The top tier programs are not necessarily the most expensive. In fact, at least one of them is one of the most reasonable among all programs (top tier or otherwise).
And for the most part, the top tier programs do provide better exposure. Which game do you think will attract more attention - the Bad News Bears against the Podunk Pirates, or the Dallas Mustangs vs. Kyle Chapman?
Finally, IMHO, one of the benefits of playing for the "Big Boys" is that for the most part these teams play against the toughest competition in the nation. And playing against tough competition helps players raise their game (again, IMHO).
And there are players & their families that are not 100% positive regarding their experience with Coach Q's organization. I'm not saying that to slam them, but you'll find people in all organizations that are less than "excited" about the bang for their buck. This won't be breaking news to catcher, but I was very disappointed in the Red Hawks organization (back in 2003) -- that doesn't mean that anyone is a bad person or that they think money-first. Like the bumper sticker says, "Stuff Happens!".
All teams can provide exposure -- given a good list of contacts, playing in the right tournaments, making good team decisions, etc. But Texan is right -- those with a track record are ahead of the game. Can others catch up and benefit their players? <-- of course!
And we've been there / done that / on the discussion concerning scholarships in relation to money spent "chasing" them.
-PD
All teams can provide exposure -- given a good list of contacts, playing in the right tournaments, making good team decisions, etc. But Texan is right -- those with a track record are ahead of the game. Can others catch up and benefit their players? <-- of course!
And we've been there / done that / on the discussion concerning scholarships in relation to money spent "chasing" them.
-PD
PDiddy,
I swear we attended the same school......
Good luck to your son.
You have a refund coming..........
You might not get it back all in one year, but a dinger bringing 5,000 to their feet, or a 3-2 K on a 2-1 game in the bottom of the ninth is worth something........
I swear we attended the same school......
Good luck to your son.
You have a refund coming..........
You might not get it back all in one year, but a dinger bringing 5,000 to their feet, or a 3-2 K on a 2-1 game in the bottom of the ninth is worth something........
FO -- that kind of "return on investment" is priceless.
Please keep me up-to-date on the guys -- your crazy travels will begin soon.
FOUR WEEKS FROM TOMORROW, PEEPS!
Please keep me up-to-date on the guys -- your crazy travels will begin soon.
FOUR WEEKS FROM TOMORROW, PEEPS!
....an informative thread.
An excellent observation........
I added the italics for emphasis for those who expressed that concern in the thread.
Many teams we played on divided the budget by 13 or 14 instead of 15-16 and no one ever gave it a second thought........
And hotel rooms were shared.......
Bats were shared............
Meals were shared............
Plane tickets just showed up.........
Suburbans were full............
Some delivered players. Some brought them back.
Single mom's meals were bought....
Team meal cookouts. Team meals paid for by some.
Team vans funded.
If you want to play for a select team, talk to the coach, they'll explain how it works to you and how it can be funded.
Then play hard and be grateful for the opportunity.
quote:Elite summer team coaches scout HS games looking for players. They make note of good players, even ones who can't afford to play on their teams. College guys talk to them about players they have seen, word gets around.
If you can play, your opportunity can be had. The right people will find you.
You don't need a strategy, what you need is talent.
An excellent observation........
I added the italics for emphasis for those who expressed that concern in the thread.
Many teams we played on divided the budget by 13 or 14 instead of 15-16 and no one ever gave it a second thought........
And hotel rooms were shared.......
Bats were shared............
Meals were shared............
Plane tickets just showed up.........
Suburbans were full............
Some delivered players. Some brought them back.
Single mom's meals were bought....
Team meal cookouts. Team meals paid for by some.
Team vans funded.
If you want to play for a select team, talk to the coach, they'll explain how it works to you and how it can be funded.
Then play hard and be grateful for the opportunity.
What is everyone paying to play?
Marshals $1025 excluding travel
DBAT
Mustangs
Tigers
Patriots
Blackhawks
Drillers
Marshals $1025 excluding travel
DBAT
Mustangs
Tigers
Patriots
Blackhawks
Drillers
catcher -- all that is old news -- I'd rather discuss the salaries for GM's! 
Catcher GM HS Division Salary $0
(We don't charge enough, ha)
Catcher GM TCL Team $Mucho Dinero
(We don't charge enough, ha)
Catcher GM TCL Team $Mucho Dinero
Without specifics, DBAT 16 will be in line with the other top select programs -- perhaps a bit more than the Marshals advertised fee...but cheaper than some. How is that for diplomacy?
Mustangs $1675
I am not quite as diplomatic!
I am not quite as diplomatic!
I have a 13 year-old son who has played Little League baseball for the past 6 years. We have been very fortunate to live in a town that has an exceptional Little League baseball program for kids U-12. For the past three years, he has played on a team that has been coached by the same man for the almost 30 years. Although I did not always agree with his in-game coaching decisions and practicing every single day, he is the best "baseball teacher" I have ever been around. His knowledge of, and passion for the game makes him a good coach, but his love for the kids has given him his longevity and is what makes him a "baseball teacher".
Unfortunately, our local Little League Junior Division (13-14 year-olds) is positioned at the complete opposite end of the spectrum. The level of play is much better at the Major Division level than it is at the Junior Division level. Historically, the stronger players have left the program and moved on to play "select" ball in Ft. Worth, while the weaker end of the player pool continues to play Little League. Since my son has aspirations of making the freshman team in two years, “select” baseball is pretty much our only option to allow him to develop at a competitive level.
My son has a true love for the game, and at the risk of sounding like a bragging father, has a great deal of talent as well. When I started looking for a place for him to play, I had several things to consider:
1)Cost – I am not willing to pay several thousand dollars for my son to play on a 13 year-old baseball team. I have two younger children who are involved in sports and I don’t want them to be short-changed because their older brother’s team has three uniforms and a lighted practice facility.
2)Instruction – I wanted to avoid “daddy-ball” where the father of a kid on the team is the coach. I want his skills to be evaluated by an impartial coach who’s sole purpose is to assemble the most competitive team possible and someone who will challenge my son to elevate his game.
3)Travel – I don’t want my family to have to plan their summer going to tournaments every other weekend in Oklahoma City, San Antonio, Houston, Tulsa, etc… From what little I know about competitive baseball, I think there are plenty of tournaments in the D/FW area that attract the best teams from the region.
4)Development – Because my son truly loves the game, I want to do whatever I can to give him every opportunity to be the best player that he can be. His Little League coach made him a fundamentally sound player, he needs someone to teach him the finer points of the game and “polish” his skills. I don’t have any grand illusions of seeing him sign a MLB contract or a D1 letter of intent, but if he did develop into a good enough player to earn a partial college scholarship, you wouldn’t hear me complain.
After a few “try-outs”, a lot of cussing, discussing and numerous economic summits, we believe that we have found a team in an organization that fits the bill. The fee to play on this team is going to be in the $1200 neighborhood for approximately 80 games this spring/summer. Additionally, they are going to have a fundraiser to help defray some of the costs and will allow me to make a down payment and pay off the balance of the fee in installments. The team’s General Manager is an area high school coach and the Head Coach is a young, ex-college middle infielder who has a great knowledge of the game and really communicates well with the kids. My son is a shortstop so he is getting invaluable instruction from someone who knows first hand what it takes to play at the next level. They plan on playing in a league during the week and tournaments in the D/FW area on the weekends.
Finding this team with coaches that share the same philosophies and goals that I have regarding player development is no accident or stroke of luck. I believe that it is the parent’s responsibility to do the homework to find the right team and the right situation for their kid. Just like everything else in life, paying more for something doesn’t always mean that it is going to be better. Spending $4000 a year to have your son play on a “select” team doesn’t necessarily mean that he is going to become a better high school or college player; you have to find a team who’s coaches are truly dedicated to doing what is right for your son and each and every other player on the team.
Unfortunately, our local Little League Junior Division (13-14 year-olds) is positioned at the complete opposite end of the spectrum. The level of play is much better at the Major Division level than it is at the Junior Division level. Historically, the stronger players have left the program and moved on to play "select" ball in Ft. Worth, while the weaker end of the player pool continues to play Little League. Since my son has aspirations of making the freshman team in two years, “select” baseball is pretty much our only option to allow him to develop at a competitive level.
My son has a true love for the game, and at the risk of sounding like a bragging father, has a great deal of talent as well. When I started looking for a place for him to play, I had several things to consider:
1)Cost – I am not willing to pay several thousand dollars for my son to play on a 13 year-old baseball team. I have two younger children who are involved in sports and I don’t want them to be short-changed because their older brother’s team has three uniforms and a lighted practice facility.
2)Instruction – I wanted to avoid “daddy-ball” where the father of a kid on the team is the coach. I want his skills to be evaluated by an impartial coach who’s sole purpose is to assemble the most competitive team possible and someone who will challenge my son to elevate his game.
3)Travel – I don’t want my family to have to plan their summer going to tournaments every other weekend in Oklahoma City, San Antonio, Houston, Tulsa, etc… From what little I know about competitive baseball, I think there are plenty of tournaments in the D/FW area that attract the best teams from the region.
4)Development – Because my son truly loves the game, I want to do whatever I can to give him every opportunity to be the best player that he can be. His Little League coach made him a fundamentally sound player, he needs someone to teach him the finer points of the game and “polish” his skills. I don’t have any grand illusions of seeing him sign a MLB contract or a D1 letter of intent, but if he did develop into a good enough player to earn a partial college scholarship, you wouldn’t hear me complain.
After a few “try-outs”, a lot of cussing, discussing and numerous economic summits, we believe that we have found a team in an organization that fits the bill. The fee to play on this team is going to be in the $1200 neighborhood for approximately 80 games this spring/summer. Additionally, they are going to have a fundraiser to help defray some of the costs and will allow me to make a down payment and pay off the balance of the fee in installments. The team’s General Manager is an area high school coach and the Head Coach is a young, ex-college middle infielder who has a great knowledge of the game and really communicates well with the kids. My son is a shortstop so he is getting invaluable instruction from someone who knows first hand what it takes to play at the next level. They plan on playing in a league during the week and tournaments in the D/FW area on the weekends.
Finding this team with coaches that share the same philosophies and goals that I have regarding player development is no accident or stroke of luck. I believe that it is the parent’s responsibility to do the homework to find the right team and the right situation for their kid. Just like everything else in life, paying more for something doesn’t always mean that it is going to be better. Spending $4000 a year to have your son play on a “select” team doesn’t necessarily mean that he is going to become a better high school or college player; you have to find a team who’s coaches are truly dedicated to doing what is right for your son and each and every other player on the team.
Good post Heavy D -- your first? If so, I hope you continue to visit and contribute. As you start this select thing, my biggest suggestion is to enjoy the ride and try to avoid regrets. Sounds like you've found a good situation for your son. Welcome!
quote:Reply
How did I miss this thread the first time around? I second Panther Dad (from just above). Enjoy the ride. You'll be amazed at how quickly it passes. If you do find yourself in a bad situation, it won't be the end of the world. It will just seem like. You'll learn many lessons from the bad and it probably won't happen to you again. I sincerely hope you never run into the bad, but they are out there. Continue to do your homework. Follow this board closely. You'll quickly come to figure out the repeat "bad seed" offenders. Best of luck to your son and enjoy your season! I sure wish some of the coaches on here had been around when we first started!
quote:Originally posted by Coach Qualkenbush:
Now by all the select coaches of coarse I mean the majority. Thank the good lord there still are good organizations that care about the kids first and not the money. That being said, it bothers me to no end that I have to charge so much to put together a competitive team over the summer. Yes I coach the Dallas Drillers and no I don't care if you all know who I am. Obviously, when I tell you my last name in every posting.
Back to topic - At some point the main focus of select baseball in Dallas became money and not helping the kids improve. You can argue with this all you want, but the facts are, good tournaments cost too much money to enter, certain organizations have excluded everyone else from their reindeer games so they can corner the market, and parents are left with a flurry of different opinions and promises when all they are trying to do is what's best for their children. Have I added to this problem by starting a new organization? Maybe. But I do know that I long for the days when all the talent in the area played in one league and you had guys like Kerry Wood, Ben Grieve, Vernon Wells, and so on playing in the same league with everyone else. Other people may say that they are trying to up the level of competition by starting a new league, but the simple fact is they are just adding to the growing problem. Baseball should not be about money and power until ballplayers make it to the bigs. When that happens everyone involved is an adult and they can deal with it.
Why couldn't we have one league with different levels. No more organizations that have 15 teams, and no more sword fighting among everyone off the field.
It's a shame that so many people are trying to exploit these kids. Highschool baseball is about team, learning to win, and improvement.
NOT MONEY
quote:Originally posted by TigerParent:quote:Originally posted by Coach Qualkenbush:
Now by all the select coaches of coarse I mean the majority. Thank the good lord there still are good organizations that care about the kids first and not the money. That being said, it bothers me to no end that I have to charge so much to put together a competitive team over the summer. Yes I coach the Dallas Drillers and no I don't care if you all know who I am. Obviously, when I tell you my last name in every posting.
Back to topic - At some point the main focus of select baseball in Dallas became money and not helping the kids improve. You can argue with this all you want, but the facts are, good tournaments cost too much money to enter, certain organizations have excluded everyone else from their reindeer games so they can corner the market, and parents are left with a flurry of different opinions and promises when all they are trying to do is what's best for their children. Have I added to this problem by starting a new organization? Maybe. But I do know that I long for the days when all the talent in the area played in one league and you had guys like Kerry Wood, Ben Grieve, Vernon Wells, and so on playing in the same league with everyone else. Other people may say that they are trying to up the level of competition by starting a new league, but the simple fact is they are just adding to the growing problem. Baseball should not be about money and power until ballplayers make it to the bigs. When that happens everyone involved is an adult and they can deal with it.
Why couldn't we have one league with different levels. No more organizations that have 15 teams, and no more sword fighting among everyone off the field.
It's a shame that so many people are trying to exploit these kids. Highschool baseball is about team, learning to win, and improvement.
NOT MONEY
Well since I am from the 90's and currently I just had to correct the above statement. Since you brought up the Kerry Wood, Ben Grienve, Vernon Wells days; Let me remind you that during there Soph, Jun & Sen years that was wen a "New League" was formed called "The Lone Star Leage" aka Sam Carpenter. He wanted to charge this and that and form his own league and at that time BBI was the only show in town. So how can you say it should be like it used to be. This went on a long time ago!!!
About every 15-20 years is a good time frame for someone new, young, and full of energy, to step in and shake things up for the better.
Just because "that's the way it has been" doesn't mean it has to stay that way.
Personally I am glad Coach Q is getting involved and has the fortitude to shake things up
Just because "that's the way it has been" doesn't mean it has to stay that way.
Personally I am glad Coach Q is getting involved and has the fortitude to shake things up
quote:Originally posted by catcher:
What is everyone paying to play?
Marshals $1025 excluding travel
DBAT
Mustangs
Tigers
Patriots
Blackhawks
Drillers
I think comparing prices of selects teams just by price is useless. I would compare the whole package. Most of the time you get what you pay for. (most of the time
) Some teams go to PG in the Summer and Fall. Just the Tournament fee for those tournaments can be $1500 not to mention the coaches travel expenses. Also my son went to the TCU team camp last year at a cost of around $300 per player. These two tournaments alone could raise the price of your fee by $400-$600.
Then you have the amount your paying your coaches and uniforms. Some teams find great coaches to volunteer, while other parents decide to pay 2 or 3 coaches a salary for the season. Some teams just get 2 t-shirts and a cap while others supply t-shirts, multiple nice jerseys, pants, bat bags, cleats, socks, and belts. I have seen some coaches even offer free instruction for any of thier players as part of a whole package.
Also some teams have indoor practice buildings that players can use for free during the season. As a parent I would take all of this into account when deciding teams based on price. Some of the above mentioned things may or may not have value to some families but parents can decide if the money is well spent.
All that being said as a rule I think most teams charge between $1000-$2000 per Summer.
In Ontario most Elite teams range between $4000-$7000. They are all year teams with most having great facilities. The more expensive ones usually go to PG,Area Codes, Bamba and other showcases. A lot of them take a spring Florida trip to play US HS and JUCOs. They get 2-3 sets of unis, bads,and warm up jakets . All food and travel is covered.
Not cheap even if it is those funny dollars.
Not cheap even if it is those funny dollars.
All those cost are fine and dandy.And the (possible payoff) can be nice...But there are those of us that cannot in any way come up with an extra $300, not to say over a $1000 plus expenses.
To wonder why the demographics of pro and college is so different, is to look with rose colored glasses.
The fact that certain entities have turned it into a profit source says enough. Those in the lower income brackets do not stand a chance, unless they get noticed playing HS ball.
There are a whole lot of schools out there and a whole lot of kids, so a bunch get missed.
To wonder why the demographics of pro and college is so different, is to look with rose colored glasses.
The fact that certain entities have turned it into a profit source says enough. Those in the lower income brackets do not stand a chance, unless they get noticed playing HS ball.
There are a whole lot of schools out there and a whole lot of kids, so a bunch get missed.
Without going too far out on a limb, many of the named organizations provide "scholarship" opportunities. Sometimes a portion of a kid's fee can be sponsored by "friends" of the program. I know it is difficult to approach a coach or manager regarding this subject but, for the most part, I think people involved with teams at this level understand that all families are not equal in terms of resources. This type of situation may arise at year-end as well -- when "guest" opportunities present themselves <-- another topic, I'm sure.
quote:Originally posted by Heavy D:
I have a 13 year-old son who has played Little League baseball for the past 6 years. We have been very fortunate to live in a town that has an exceptional Little League baseball program for kids U-12. For the past three years, he has played on a team that has been coached by the same man for the almost 30 years. Although I did not always agree with his in-game coaching decisions and practicing every single day, he is the best "baseball teacher" I have ever been around. His knowledge of, and passion for the game makes him a good coach, but his love for the kids has given him his longevity and is what makes him a "baseball teacher".
Unfortunately, our local Little League Junior Division (13-14 year-olds) is positioned at the complete opposite end of the spectrum. The level of play is much better at the Major Division level than it is at the Junior Division level. Historically, the stronger players have left the program and moved on to play "select" ball in Ft. Worth, while the weaker end of the player pool continues to play Little League. Since my son has aspirations of making the freshman team in two years, “select” baseball is pretty much our only option to allow him to develop at a competitive level.
My son has a true love for the game, and at the risk of sounding like a bragging father, has a great deal of talent as well. When I started looking for a place for him to play, I had several things to consider:
1)Cost – I am not willing to pay several thousand dollars for my son to play on a 13 year-old baseball team. I have two younger children who are involved in sports and I don’t want them to be short-changed because their older brother’s team has three uniforms and a lighted practice facility.
2)Instruction – I wanted to avoid “daddy-ball” where the father of a kid on the team is the coach. I want his skills to be evaluated by an impartial coach who’s sole purpose is to assemble the most competitive team possible and someone who will challenge my son to elevate his game.
3)Travel – I don’t want my family to have to plan their summer going to tournaments every other weekend in Oklahoma City, San Antonio, Houston, Tulsa, etc… From what little I know about competitive baseball, I think there are plenty of tournaments in the D/FW area that attract the best teams from the region.
4)Development – Because my son truly loves the game, I want to do whatever I can to give him every opportunity to be the best player that he can be. His Little League coach made him a fundamentally sound player, he needs someone to teach him the finer points of the game and “polish” his skills. I don’t have any grand illusions of seeing him sign a MLB contract or a D1 letter of intent, but if he did develop into a good enough player to earn a partial college scholarship, you wouldn’t hear me complain.
After a few “try-outs”, a lot of cussing, discussing and numerous economic summits, we believe that we have found a team in an organization that fits the bill. The fee to play on this team is going to be in the $1200 neighborhood for approximately 80 games this spring/summer. Additionally, they are going to have a fundraiser to help defray some of the costs and will allow me to make a down payment and pay off the balance of the fee in installments. The team’s General Manager is an area high school coach and the Head Coach is a young, ex-college middle infielder who has a great knowledge of the game and really communicates well with the kids. My son is a shortstop so he is getting invaluable instruction from someone who knows first hand what it takes to play at the next level. They plan on playing in a league during the week and tournaments in the D/FW area on the weekends.
Finding this team with coaches that share the same philosophies and goals that I have regarding player development is no accident or stroke of luck. I believe that it is the parent’s responsibility to do the homework to find the right team and the right situation for their kid. Just like everything else in life, paying more for something doesn’t always mean that it is going to be better. Spending $4000 a year to have your son play on a “select” team doesn’t necessarily mean that he is going to become a better high school or college player; you have to find a team who’s coaches are truly dedicated to doing what is right for your son and each and every other player on the team.
Heavy D- Daddy Ball at age 13? Isn't that what age 13 is all about. My son is baseball age 16 and I am nothing but an observer now. I will never be able to celebrate a home run with him as his coach again! I will never have him jump into my arms right after he scores the game winning run, again! I will never get to call pitches, while he's on the mound, again! I will never have the opportunity for my son to second guess my coaching, again!
The definition of Daddy ball is not a dad coaching his son's team. Daddy ball is when the dad coaches so his son will benefit in playing time, where he plays and bats in the order.
By the way, the deal you got for the team your playing on, is not that great compared to what occured at baseball 13 back in 2003. Of the top 5 teams in the DFW area, only 1 had a paid coach! We all played 70-80 games! All the kids learned how to play the game!
Daddy ball, I wish I was still playing daddy ball with my son!!!
There are also those of us that sacrifice new cars, vacations, lots of consumerism at Christmas, cable TV, cell phones for the kids or whatever else that is required to sacrifice for our kids to play Select.
I know a couple of parents that work 2nd and 3rd jobs to pay for it. I also know a dad here in Keller that pays over $40K a year for his son to play Jr. Golf. Will it pay off? Who knows.
But, look at this thread, it may answer if it would be worth it for you.
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7106002781/m/1711030441
I know a couple of parents that work 2nd and 3rd jobs to pay for it. I also know a dad here in Keller that pays over $40K a year for his son to play Jr. Golf. Will it pay off? Who knows.
But, look at this thread, it may answer if it would be worth it for you.
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7106002781/m/1711030441