Sharing stats with players question.

yes I do.  I talk to players about a lot of stuff, including Stats, but I do not talk about Radar gun or Batting average.  There are stats withing stats that I will discuss but those are stats that are important to what we do.  G2G I will discuss but only when a catcher puts it on the dime.

Originally Posted by IEBSBL:

yes I do.  I talk to players about a lot of stuff, including Stats, but I do not talk about Radar gun or Batting average.  There are stats withing stats that I will discuss but those are stats that are important to what we do.  G2G I will discuss but only when a catcher puts it on the dime.

OK, I don’t understand what you’re saying, but I’ll accept that for some reason you think gun readings and batting averages are somehow dysfunctional. So why are those 2 things dysfunctional but there are other stats that aren’t? Can you give an example?

I’m assuming you time all the catchers’ throws. So why is it that you only discuss it if the throw is perfect, and what if anything do you do with the information?

I’m not trying to argue here. I’m honestly trying to find out why some stats are “bad” and others are “good”, but only in certain conditions. To me they’re all just numbers that indicate what took place.

Many players are hyper competitive, and if you give them stats they tend to brag about it or focus too much on it.   If you start talking about MPH (as a coach, not as an instructor) or other individual stats (such as batting average), the competitive player may try to do things that are not best for the team.   For example, focusing on batting average might get a player to be upset if he hit a ball where he reached base and a fielder made an error or the batter advanced a runner with a well placed ground ball (so you're talking out of both sides of your mouth by saying team oriented things like giving yourself up to advance a runner is important, but then publishing batting average).  Focusing on MPH, might get a pitcher to think that's all you care about...when that really isn't necessarily good for the team (how many coaches talk about getting pitchers to pitch to contact?  but then the coach brags about MPH or Ks.   Few pitchers will get a lot of opportunities if they pitch to contact, but that contact repeatedly results in 20 hit games for the opposition).   I think it's great for each individual player to know his MPH or have goals to reach, but as a head coach, if you start sharing it publicly, you may give the impression that it's the key measuring stick for playing time, etc....when in fact there are other things that may be more valuable for the team.  So, I feel the same way for both MPH and batting average. 

those are training goals. So sharing in a training environment is ok.  But not during games.  

Originally Posted by mcloven:

Many players are hyper competitive, and if you give them stats they tend to brag about it or focus too much on it.   …

In my experience, while there is some “bragging”, I’ve never encountered or heard of a player on any team I’ve ever scored for who was said to have focused so much on the stats they became a detriment to the team. Granted, that’s only a few hundred players over 15+ years, but I really don’t think the problem is as bad as many make it out to be.

For proof, all I can offer is this. There are literally tens of thousands of teams that make the stats public. How is it that their coaches don’t seem to believe seeing the stats is much of a problem? Is it at least possible that they aren’t as much of a problem as you believe?

Originally Posted by Golfman25:

those are training goals. So sharing in a training environment is ok.  But not during games.  

I’m not sure what not during games means.

Originally Posted by IEBSBL:

I believe gun readings and batting average are dysfunctional for the following reasons.

 Gun Readings:  just because you can hit 90 doesn't means a thing but a lot of people drool over it.  I also think guns can cause mental blocks in some players.  i had a player that left a game feeling great about himself, then found out what the gin read, and felt sad.

I totally agree, but the fact is, the gun is currently the 1^st measure of all pitchers for advancing to the college or professional levels.

This is only my belief, but I think a player hearing the number from his coach along with an evaluation is a lot better than hearing from his dad who happened to see a gun reading.

Batting Average:  what does batting average really tell you????  I had a player one time that was one of the top players in the area batting average wise.  However when you looked at his batting average with RISP he was hitting at the Mendoza line. 

BA doesn’t team me much at all, but there are millions who think it’s the Holy Grail of baseball stats. I’m also not a big believer that BAWRISP is any more of a Holy Grain than BA.

you asked about why I only tell catchers pop time on a good throw???  What does it matter if he threw a 1.9 and it was 4 ft wide of the bag?   he didn't throw the guy out so it doesn't matter how fast it got there.

To me it would mean the mechanics are all in place and it was just a small matter of timing if he was 1.9 and missed by 4’ at 127’.

Stats that are not dysfunctional:  Offensive runs created, execution percentage.  Pitching:LOM, FPS

I know what RC is, but not execution percentage. Please explain.

For pitching I’m guess FPS is 1^st pitch strike percentage but haven’t got a clue what LOM is, unless it has something to do with lead off man. Please explain.

How about the coach that doesn't use and or doesn't discuss any stats?

Am I the only one who sees where this is going.....again?

I know what RC is, but not execution percentage. Please explain.

successful sac bunt, hit and runs, moving the runner to 3rd wit 0 outs, as well as scoring R3 wit 0 and 1 outs.

For pitching I’m guess FPS is 1st pitch strike percentage but haven’t got a clue what LOM is, unless it has something to do with lead off man. Please explain.

lead off man out

Originally Posted by IEBSBL:

successful sac bunt, hit and runs, moving the runner to 3rd wit 0 outs, as well as scoring R3 wit 0 and 1 outs.

Let’s see if I get this correct.

You track the number of attempted sac bunts and the number of successful sac bunts. The execution % is the number of successful sac bunts divided by the total number of attempts.

You also track the number of attempted hit and runs and the number of times they were successful. Then the number of attempted sac bunts and attempted hit and runs are totaled and divided into the total of the successes to get an execution %.

Then you also track the number of runners on 1^st or 2^nd with no outs as possibilities(attempts) , and the number of runners moved to 3^rd for any reason by a BIP as successes. Then you add the attempts to the other attempts and successes to the other successes to get the execution %.

You also track the number of runners on 3^rd with less than 2 outs as a possibility(attempt) and the number of times they score as a success, then add them together with the other things to get an overall execution %.

Do you keep track of those things yourself during the game or does someone pull them out of the scorebook?

Seems a bit convoluted to me as opposed to just tracking each item separately, but if you can do it accurately, more power to ya.

lead off man out

OK. I do something similar myself. I don't live and die with it, but I think its an interesting thing to know, even if it depends a great deal on the person calling the pitches as well as the person executing them.

I go back through book after the game and pull it out.  Yeah I guess I could look at them all separately but I have never felt a need to.  

Originally Posted by IEBSBL:

I go back through book after the game and pull it out.  Yeah I guess I could look at them all separately but I have never felt a need to.  

How do you identify them? I know I had one heck of a hard time doing things like that because those aren’t the kinds of things one can just pull from a scoresheet, even having been there watching the game.

As always, I tell the coaches to let me know if they want me to track something for them, and last summer I was asked to track bunt attempts and successes. That was fine with me because I already did it but didn’t report on them. The fly in the ointment was, he wanted foul bunts, missed bunts, called strikes with the bunt sign on, as well as successful bunts. I did my best, but it was an impossible task for me. I didn’t know what the bunt sign was, and even if I did I’m paying attention to too many other things. Then I couldn’t find a reasonably easy and automatic way to program the computer to take care of it. I tried, but finally came up with in order to do that, I’d have to not pay attention to something else, and conceded defeat.

Something else I tried to do off and on over the years with very little success until the computer started doing it, what going back through the book and trying to figure out what bases the runners were on when the ball was put into play. It sounds easy, but with WPs, PBs, errors, pickoffs, stolen bases and all, it was dang near impossible for me. I could get about 80% of them, but that was far too much of an error for me. With the computer doing it, I’m guess the error rate is much less than 1% and that’s acceptable to me.

So I’m guessing you trying to remember if a sign was on or off and if the hitter got it or not and everything else, you have to be pulling your hair out a fair amount of the time. I know I’ve sure left enough of my follicles on the floor staring at a scorebook, so I empathize.

Not pulling out my hair at all.  I can easily go through a book and be spot on with executions.

As far as stats go, I think that it is important to keep track of them and share them with the athlete for the purpose of tracking improvements and keeping records. Also, I like to know how well I performed in relation to how well I can perform. 

With the situation in regard to a pitcher who was happy with this performance until learning about his velo readings, I can relate and I don't see a problem with this. If the results of my outing were good, but I learned that I was throwing several mph slower than I should be, I would definitely be unhappy. Not because of my performance, but because I failed to perform at the level that I know I am capable of. I have no problem with an athlete who knows what he is capable of, and is unhappy when he fails to meet that standard 

See, this is where baseball has gotten screwed up.  Because you did not hit certain MPH you failed to perform at the level that you are capable of?  When did MPH become a performance level?  Does that mean if I am capable of hitting 1 400 ft HR and I only hit it 375 I should be disappointed?

Originally Posted by IEBSBL:

Not pulling out my hair at all.  I can easily go through a book and be spot on with executions.

You’re a better man than I. I can get most situations correct and what took place, but certainly not all of them, and certainly it isn’t easy for me.

Originally Posted by IEBSBL:

See, this is where baseball has gotten screwed up.  Because you did not hit certain MPH you failed to perform at the level that you are capable of?  When did MPH become a performance level?  Does that mean if I am capable of hitting 1 400 ft HR and I only hit it 375 I should be disappointed?

Don’t blame him for believing exactly what the baseball complex has forced him to believe. We’ve come right back to the conundrum of there being 2 different standards of performance. A coach trying to win a game doesn’t really give a rat’s patoo how hard his pitcher’s throwing. All he’s interested in is if he’s getting batters out and allowing as few runs as necessary to win the game. That’s far different than a coach looking to offer a ‘ship or a scout looking for the next HOF pitcher.

They’re two totally different things, but people keep treating them like they’re not. So in this case while the player is satisfied that he did his best for the team, he knows he didn’t help his own personal advancement to the next level.

Doesn't "game changer" kind of negate the option of whether or not to share the stats? 

Or is that just a Georgia thing?

You don't have to make Game Changer data public.

CaCO3Girl and JCG, there is a backdoor to gamechanger system.  If you sign up for a premium membership you gain access to the scorebook of anyone you like.  You can then go back through and gain some information.

Stats...I wasn't blaming the poster for the creation of the problem just pointing out that, that is a problem.  I just do not like that Velo is the end all be all of what goes on when it comes to pitching.  I get that you have to be throwing XYZ to get drafted but there are a lot of false hopes out there because people are not realistic and I think that the gun can create some problems.  Also going through the book is about elimination.

I only sac bunt with 0 outs, so that eliminates any situation in which there are 1 or 2 outs.  I will Hit and run with 0 or 1 so that is always the trickiest but I don't do it so much that I lose track.  Moving the runner from 2 with 0 outs, and scoring runner from 3 with 0 and 1.  All you need to do is eliminate situations that don't apply and it almost speaks for itself. 

IEBSBL,

Nobody can see team stats without the admin granting permission.  But what you're saying is even without permission they can see your book, and so they could calculate spray charts and stats if they wanted to take the trouble.  Yeah, that could be an issue.  I was talking to my kid's coach about doing his games on CG for him next spring and this came up.  He doesn't want to push his stats through MaxPreps until the season is over.  My thought was to score the games under a fictional team name, and then change it when ready.

Originally Posted by IEBSBL:

CaCO3Girl and JCG, there is a backdoor to gamechanger system.  If you sign up for a premium membership you gain access to the scorebook of anyone you like.  You can then go back through and gain some information.

WOW. I didn’t get far enough into GC to find that out. That really sucks.

Stats...I wasn't blaming the poster for the creation of the problem just pointing out that, that is a problem.  I just do not like that Velo is the end all be all of what goes on when it comes to pitching.  I get that you have to be throwing XYZ to get drafted but there are a lot of false hopes out there because people are not realistic and I think that the gun can create some problems.  Also going through the book is about elimination.

I’m pretty much on your side with this. Guns are really something that cause a lot of misunderstanding and friction because so many people misunderstand their use the same way they misunderstand the use of stats.

I only sac bunt with 0 outs, so that eliminates any situation in which there are 1 or 2 outs.  I will Hit and run with 0 or 1 so that is always the trickiest but I don't do it so much that I lose track.  Moving the runner from 2 with 0 outs, and scoring runner from 3 with 0 and 1.  All you need to do is eliminate situations that don't apply and it almost speaks for itself. 

I knew there had to be something going on I didn’t’ understand. I don’t have the luxury of such things because almost all of the stats I run, I run for the opponent too. I can tell you that our coach would sacrifice with 0 or 1 out, and I’ve seen him put on the hit and run in some pretty strange situations.

No you are not.

Fish on!