I often wonder if by "academics", we should really be saying "academic reputation", because there are bad profs everywhere. Being at a great "academic" school doesn't automatically mean that the student will have a slate free of bad profs (smart as hell, but difficulty with communicating, huge work loads, playing favorites, sometimes even English is a challenge, would rather be doing research, huge classes taught/graded by TA's, etc etc).
Another reason why ALL things (listed nicely by obs44) really need to be factored in...."academic reputation" being just one of those factors.
Our kids will be people far longer than they will be baseball players. Everything that goes into helping them grow to become good, productive people is important. For most that will mean and education; for some their education will be limited to baseball. Each family will have a focus based upon their traditions, dreams, aspirations and beliefs; not everyone is the same and as such their is no best answer for the question "should academics come first?"
In the big picture there aren't going to be any right or wrong answers. This is a subject my responses will be based on conditioned environment. A parent whose family members has always attended top academic institutions is going to have a different view than a parent where no one in the family has attended college. It doesn't make one parent right, wrong, better or worse. It's just going to be a different view.
I'm some what offended when people believe a formal education is necessary for success.
Is a farmer and better farmer because he has a degree?
I say life is short so follow your dream, your passion, work hard and you will have few regrets.
PS I went to college, my husband is a tradesman,my brother is a lawyer and my father was a farmer.. guess who made the most money
Is a farmer and better farmer because he has a degree?
I say life is short so follow your dream, your passion, work hard and you will have few regrets.
PS I went to college, my husband is a tradesman,my brother is a lawyer and my father was a farmer.. guess who made the most money
NJBB - No, a farmer is not a better farmer because he has a degree. He just has more options and alternatives in case that doesn't work out.
quote:NJBB - No, a farmer is not a better farmer because he has a degree. He just has more options and alternatives in case that doesn't work out
Good point.And the real issue here is we are talking about baseball past highschool, so if they aren't drafted out of HS they have to play in college.And to play they have to stay elgible.So while there they should work towards their degree.Whatever that is, wherever that is depending on the family and player.
i have a much different view of the situation. i completed the 9th grade, i worked construction from then on.thats what you did with no formal education.
i have a concrete foundation co. i have carried more than i care to admitt on my back ,because i had a strong back. but i wouldn't do anything different, maybe because i don't know any better.
there is no substitute for an education.
all though for some school just isn't the thing, i can understand that. but in my opinion you don't go to school to become a pro player. it just cost to much, even with scholy money. even then its up to a chosen few that decide that , if you even get chosen to try. if he wanted to be a plumber,muscician, dr, you need to go to school (or should),not to be a baseball player.
you should pretty much have an idea by now if he has a shot. if he feels that strongly about baseball, see if he's drafted out of high school. if not tryout for any indy team. if he's good enough they'll sign him from there.
sounds as though he is thinking it through some. but why waste time and money in college?
i told my kids they could be whatever they wanted in life, i lied.
i have a concrete foundation co. i have carried more than i care to admitt on my back ,because i had a strong back. but i wouldn't do anything different, maybe because i don't know any better.
there is no substitute for an education.all though for some school just isn't the thing, i can understand that. but in my opinion you don't go to school to become a pro player. it just cost to much, even with scholy money. even then its up to a chosen few that decide that , if you even get chosen to try. if he wanted to be a plumber,muscician, dr, you need to go to school (or should),not to be a baseball player.
you should pretty much have an idea by now if he has a shot. if he feels that strongly about baseball, see if he's drafted out of high school. if not tryout for any indy team. if he's good enough they'll sign him from there.
sounds as though he is thinking it through some. but why waste time and money in college?
i told my kids they could be whatever they wanted in life, i lied.
I have thoroughly enjoyed every post in this thread! 
20dad - have always loved your posts. You bring a unique perspective here. No shame in having a strong back and using it accordingly. Hard work is what this country is about. My son is a blue-collar player and our family is very proud of that. Going out and outworking the next guy will always work in this great country of ours.
20dad - have always loved your posts. You bring a unique perspective here. No shame in having a strong back and using it accordingly. Hard work is what this country is about. My son is a blue-collar player and our family is very proud of that. Going out and outworking the next guy will always work in this great country of ours.
quote:Originally posted by fanofgame:quote:NJBB - No, a farmer is not a better farmer because he has a degree. He just has more options and alternatives in case that doesn't work out
Good point.And the real issue here is we are talking about baseball past highschool, so if they aren't drafted out of HS they have to play in college.And to play they have to stay elgible.So while there they should work towards their degree.Whatever that is, wherever that is depending on the family and player.
I don't think that this discussion is about college vs. pro but about college options. Should one pass up the better, harder academic option or play it safer with an easier acadeimc load for the pursuit of the game. That's what I am getting anyway. FWIW, son had some very good options to consider at very high academic programs, with so so baseball programs, he chose where he would have better baseball opportunities, and work towards a degree at the same time. Players do it all of the time.
Swampboy, there is nothing wrong in your son's decision, congratulations to him for doing what HE felt was in his best interest, which is to work hark for teh next level after college, and I agree for many there really is no right or wrong answer. I get the feeling that you may not be too comfortable with his decision, just a feeling I get from what you are trying to get across. We, as parents have a tendency to over think and over analyze, our kids are smart, they end up figuring it out and yes, working dilligently towards one dream reaching goals along the way, prepares you for what lies ahead in your life, baseball or no baseball.
The NFL provides counseling for players after they leave the game, this includes help in finishing their academic degree, along with career counseling. They make huge efforts to see that the players finish what they beganin college, no matter how much money they made or didn't in the game.
There is no such animal that exists in MLB. That's why these discussions are good, statistically it is against everyone (even the most talented) that pursues playing at the highest level that they will not get there, so realistic options and prior discussions are important.
JMO
Swampboy:
Tell your son to get drafted and sign. Problem solved. College is not for everyone. If, however, he does not get drafted, then he has some tougher choices. He can go to college; he can become a public safety office (fire or police); he can go to technical school. It is not that big of a dilemma.
If, however, he is counting on baseball for his living for a lifetime, he might find himself in a very tough situation at age 30 or 40. I know guys who played in the Big Leagues for 10 years and made a lot of money who now struggle to survive, mainly because they have no other marketable skills. It is even worse for the many of the guys who played 10 years in the minor leagues without ever making the Majors and the money that comes with it.
Tell your son to get drafted and sign. Problem solved. College is not for everyone. If, however, he does not get drafted, then he has some tougher choices. He can go to college; he can become a public safety office (fire or police); he can go to technical school. It is not that big of a dilemma.
If, however, he is counting on baseball for his living for a lifetime, he might find himself in a very tough situation at age 30 or 40. I know guys who played in the Big Leagues for 10 years and made a lot of money who now struggle to survive, mainly because they have no other marketable skills. It is even worse for the many of the guys who played 10 years in the minor leagues without ever making the Majors and the money that comes with it.
quote:I don't think that this discussion is about college vs. pro but about college options
I get what the post is about,The original poster said his son chose a less academic school, and is taking a lighter load, and taking longer than 4 years to get a GOOD degree not a weak degree, due to the fact that he wants to focus on his dream of playing at the next level.I did not say there is anything wrong with that.
I am stating after several posters, that unless a player is drafted, academics do come into play.And I really dont care where you go, it is going to be hard.
So if academics arent the most important to a player, and his dream is to play in the BIGs then if he gets drafted out of HS go play baseball.
Then when and where he goes wont matter.
My husband has been a Blue collar worker our entire marriage and has provided us with a great life.Now he is 60, At and T decided they want him to retire early, or maybe not have a job, he hurt his back at work and can hardly walk.He is now too slow to do the work they want him to accomplish in 8 hours.They forced him into an early retirement.
No options, no education.Not a lot of jobs out there to support family and help finish sons education.So something to fall back on is huge.His parents never encouraged college.My husband wants our son to finish his degree.
No options, no education.Not a lot of jobs out there to support family and help finish sons education.So something to fall back on is huge.His parents never encouraged college.My husband wants our son to finish his degree.
Just for the sake of a discussion I put this question out there.
If a young man goes to Dartmouth, Stanford, UCLA, Pepperdine, USC, those top academic schools(there are many mnay others, so not trying to exclude any good schools, and mainly chose D1 as that is where a lot of families want to shoot for first.
Anyway trying to clarify so NO one is offended.
And then you have the kids who go to state schools and get their degrees.
Do you on this board thinks it means anything as to where you go as far as the persons future and connections , job market etc?
I am just curious as to peoples thought process on this.
With that being asked, again a college education anywhere is a Great accomplishment.
If a young man goes to Dartmouth, Stanford, UCLA, Pepperdine, USC, those top academic schools(there are many mnay others, so not trying to exclude any good schools, and mainly chose D1 as that is where a lot of families want to shoot for first.
Anyway trying to clarify so NO one is offended.
And then you have the kids who go to state schools and get their degrees.
Do you on this board thinks it means anything as to where you go as far as the persons future and connections , job market etc?
I am just curious as to peoples thought process on this.
With that being asked, again a college education anywhere is a Great accomplishment.
Yes...Academics ALWAYS come first with us. However, I agree that there's certainly different circumstances in each family. College is definitely NOT for everyone. There are a number of jobs/careers that do not require a college degree and still offer you a chance to succeed. I personally had a great time in college. Unfortunately for me, I had such a good time (away from the books!) that I neglected my studies and spent half my sophomore year academically ineligible watching my buddies play from the bleachers. I had Pell/Cal Grants, but I was still struggling to pay my portion of the montly bills. My parents who have been divorced since I was five, didn't have the resources to help, nor did they understand what I was going through. They had been brought up in Blue Collar households and college was never a high priority, therefore I didn't have them to fall back on. After my sophomore year, I lost one of my Grants. It became apparent that I'd have to find a job to stay in school and still play ball. As the summer approached, I took on a job at a major company an hour away from campus. I was making pretty good money for a twenty year old, and made the mistake of purchasing a new truck. When the end of August rolled around I received a phone call from my college coach asking why I hadn't registered for the fall semester? I was embarrassed, I informed him of my financial situation and loss of my Grant. He was understanding, and even offered me an opportunity to stay with his family until I was able to reinstate the Grant. I appreciated the offer and I thought long and hard about my decision before ultimately deciding to remain working at my job beyond the summer. It's been more than 23 years, and I still represent the same company, although in a much different capacity. I've been Very Lucky, but I often wonder if I should have taken my coaches offer and what could have been? By the way, that coach is still coaching at the same school.
I feel it's my job as a parent to help direct my kids in the right direction. With that said, I will support my kids with whatever decision they make as it pertains to college. Will I have a strong opinion? You bet I will! We all want what's best for our children. I have explained the above paragraph/story to my son in the past, and I'm sure I'll remind him if he deviates from his goals in the future. Everyone has different opinions, and the road is not the same for all of us. Academics are important to me because I never completed what I started. The only thing I want to stress to young people that read this site, is YES, you can pursue other dreams...professional baseball, acting, modeling, traveling the world, etc...BUT it's much more difficult to go back to school the longer you're away. It can be done, my sister and her husband went back to school at age 38, graduated, completed their teaching credential last year at age 40/41, and now they're both teaching in Wyoming...I'll be honest though, they were lucky to have his military pension to help get them through and it was still very hard raising two kids!
CD made a good point earlier. If academics are so important, what are we doing on this site constantly? I can't answer for everybody else, but I'm just learning. I'm learning that this site is similar to our society, as TRhit said in a previous post, a sort of Melting Pot. There are several different opinions, some are good, some are bad, and some make you say hmmmm? As for college information, I visit the collegeboard.com site often for facts and information on schools, but it's just not as entertaining as the HSBaseballweb. In the long run, I don't necessarily disagree with Swampboy, I just have a different opinion. If we all agreed with everything, this site would be boring and we wouldn't have nearly as many members and visitors logged on daily, but as I stated earlier... it's JMO.
I feel it's my job as a parent to help direct my kids in the right direction. With that said, I will support my kids with whatever decision they make as it pertains to college. Will I have a strong opinion? You bet I will! We all want what's best for our children. I have explained the above paragraph/story to my son in the past, and I'm sure I'll remind him if he deviates from his goals in the future. Everyone has different opinions, and the road is not the same for all of us. Academics are important to me because I never completed what I started. The only thing I want to stress to young people that read this site, is YES, you can pursue other dreams...professional baseball, acting, modeling, traveling the world, etc...BUT it's much more difficult to go back to school the longer you're away. It can be done, my sister and her husband went back to school at age 38, graduated, completed their teaching credential last year at age 40/41, and now they're both teaching in Wyoming...I'll be honest though, they were lucky to have his military pension to help get them through and it was still very hard raising two kids!
CD made a good point earlier. If academics are so important, what are we doing on this site constantly? I can't answer for everybody else, but I'm just learning. I'm learning that this site is similar to our society, as TRhit said in a previous post, a sort of Melting Pot. There are several different opinions, some are good, some are bad, and some make you say hmmmm? As for college information, I visit the collegeboard.com site often for facts and information on schools, but it's just not as entertaining as the HSBaseballweb.
In the long run, I don't necessarily disagree with Swampboy, I just have a different opinion. If we all agreed with everything, this site would be boring and we wouldn't have nearly as many members and visitors logged on daily, but as I stated earlier... it's JMO. quote:Originally posted by fanofgame:
Just for the sake of a discussion I put this question out there.
If a young man goes to Dartmouth, Stanford, UCLA, Pepperdine, USC, those top academic schools(there are many mnay others, so not trying to exclude any good schools, and mainly chose D1 as that is where a lot of families want to shoot for first.
Anyway trying to clarify so NO one is offended.
And then you have the kids who go to state schools and get their degrees.
Do you on this board thinks it means anything as to where you go as far as the persons future and connections , job market etc?
I am just curious as to peoples thought process on this.
With that being asked, again a college education anywhere is a Great accomplishment.
The better the school, the more doors that will be open initially and perhaps in the future imho. Scott Boras is one of the wealthiest men in America and I believe he went to Pacific. I don't think anyone has ever posted a question about them here at the hsbbweb. Scott said after he got his law degree and started interviewing at the big firms in Chicago and New York that all anyone ever wanted to talk about was the fact he played baseball in college and the pros. Go figure...
.
Open Question...
Is it better to...
A. Play baseball at a highly visible baseball but much less academic school and get a 3.9 GPA degree.
Or..
B. Play baseball at a much less visible but much more highly regarded academic school...and get a 3.0 GPA.
Which goes farther...High GPA or academic reputation?
44
BTW...excellent observation FOG...trade school or education?
.
Open Question...
Is it better to...
A. Play baseball at a highly visible baseball but much less academic school and get a 3.9 GPA degree.
Or..
B. Play baseball at a much less visible but much more highly regarded academic school...and get a 3.0 GPA.
Which goes farther...High GPA or academic reputation?
BTW...excellent observation FOG...trade school or education?
.
quote:Originally posted by bsbl247:
Yes...Academics ALWAYS come first with us. However, I agree that there's certainly different circumstances in each family. College is definitely NOT for everyone. There are a number of jobs/careers that do not require a college degree and still offer you a chance to succeed. I personally had a great time in college. Unfortunately for me, I had such a good time (away from the books!) that I neglected my studies and spent half my sophomore year academically ineligible watching my buddies play from the bleachers. I had Pell/Cal Grants, but I was still struggling to pay my portion of the montly bills. My parents who have been divorced since I was five, didn't have the resources to help, nor did they understand what I was going through. They had been brought up in Blue Collar households and college was never a high priority, therefore I didn't have them to fall back on. After my sophomore year, I lost one of my Grants. It became apparent that I'd have to find a job to stay in school and still play ball. As the summer approached, I took on a job at a major company an hour away from campus. I was making pretty good money for a twenty year old, and made the mistake of purchasing a new truck. When the end of August rolled around I received a phone call from my college coach asking why I hadn't registered for the fall semester? I was embarrassed, I informed him of my financial situation and loss of my Grant. He was understanding, and even offered me an opportunity to stay with his family until I was able to reinstate the Grant. I appreciated the offer and I thought long and hard about my decision before ultimately deciding to remain working at my job beyond the summer. It's been more than 23 years, and I still represent the same company, although in a much different capacity. I've been Very Lucky, but I often wonder if I should have taken my coaches offer and what could have been? By the way, that coach is still coaching at the same school.
I feel it's my job as a parent to help direct my kids in the right direction. With that said, I will support my kids with whatever decision they make as it pertains to college. Will I have a strong opinion? You bet I will! We all want what's best for our children. I have explained the above paragraph/story to my son in the past, and I'm sure I'll remind him if he deviates from his goals in the future. Everyone has different opinions, and the road is not the same for all of us. Academics are important to me because I never completed what I started. The only thing I want to stress to young people that read this site, is YES, you can pursue other dreams...professional baseball, acting, modeling, traveling the world, etc...BUT it's much more difficult to go back to school the longer you're away. It can be done, my sister and her husband went back to school at age 38, graduated, completed their teaching credential last year at age 40/41, and now they're both teaching in Wyoming...I'll be honest though, they were lucky to have his military pension to help get them through and it was still very hard raising two kids!
CD made a good point earlier. If academics are so important, what are we doing on this site constantly? I can't answer for everybody else, but I'm just learning. I'm learning that this site is similar to our society, as TRhit said in a previous post, a sort of Melting Pot. There are several different opinions, some are good, some are bad, and some make you say hmmmm? As for college information, I visit the collegeboard.com site often for facts and information on schools, but it's just not as entertaining as the HSBaseballweb.
Absolutely loved that post - thanks for posting! Wonderful thread. Nobody agrees 100% but nobody is incorrect in what they are saying. I think everyone here has indeed figured it out for themselves. More posts please - very enjoyable reading.
quote:Originally posted by observer44:
.
Open Question...
Is it better to...
A. Play baseball at a highly visible baseball but much less academic school and get a 3.9 GPA degree.
Or..
B. Play baseball at a much less visible but much more highly regarded academic school...and get a 3.0 GPA.
Which goes farther...High GPA or academic reputation?
BTW...excellent observation FOG...trade school or education?
.
Great question. It depends
For the baseball player, A is probably the better option imho but there are obviously schools that satisfy both A and B and players capable of executing at a high level in both arenas.quote:Originally posted by justakid:
NJBB - No, a farmer is not a better farmer because he has a degree. He just has more options and alternatives in case that doesn't work out.
ClevelandDad:
I don't make the distinction that the arts are any less practical than the sciences when it comes to making a living. While wealth will make a person more comfortable, it's not a necessity for happiness. There are infinitely more musicians and artists making a living than baseball players. If a dream is tied to wealth, I'd want to certify it a real dream before I continued on. My answer is simply, what makes one happy must be tempered by one's responsibilities and duties. Many times both can exist, but sometimes we have to chose to cope, face the crisis and look for other opportunities for happiness. I guess these days, I'm looking for a little less "me" and a little more "we" in our future leadership.
Swampboy,
I dectect some serious introspection in your words.......All of us have committed ourselves to goals we didn't attain. No matter what your suggestions are to him, he will probably chose to do it his way. Isn't that how it should be anyway?
quote:What if your son wanted to be a musician? Would you discourage that? The odds are slim and none that he becomes the next Harry Connick Jr. and a multi-millionaire. Suppose that is his ultimate dream. Suppose he falls short of that and winds up as a music teacher who occasionally plays weekend gigs in a wedding band. Suppose that does not lead to a wealthy life-style but one that is completely able to pay for all those real-world things you mention above. Suppose that completely makes him happy. Would you discourage that or should he go into something practical like accounting, engineering, or management - even though his passions drove him otherwise?
I don't make the distinction that the arts are any less practical than the sciences when it comes to making a living. While wealth will make a person more comfortable, it's not a necessity for happiness. There are infinitely more musicians and artists making a living than baseball players. If a dream is tied to wealth, I'd want to certify it a real dream before I continued on. My answer is simply, what makes one happy must be tempered by one's responsibilities and duties. Many times both can exist, but sometimes we have to chose to cope, face the crisis and look for other opportunities for happiness. I guess these days, I'm looking for a little less "me" and a little more "we" in our future leadership.
Swampboy,
quote:I'm really asking if a young man is always better prepared for life by obtaining a degree that makes him initially acceptable to grad schools or hiring managers and whether he might actually learn more from the process to totally committing himself to a goal he probably won't attain. Even in the failure he's likely to encounter, might he not learn more about himself, what he's capable of doing, and what it takes to pursue grand goals than if he just built a resume? Isn't this the difference between making a living and choosing how to live? Between setting your own course and letting others do it for you? Frankly, in the economy our kids might see over the next generation, learning how to operate without a safety net might be the best preparation a young man could have, anyway. (Or is this just my mid-life crisis that I'm projecting on to him?)
I dectect some serious introspection in your words.......All of us have committed ourselves to goals we didn't attain. No matter what your suggestions are to him, he will probably chose to do it his way. Isn't that how it should be anyway?