Weren't there a lot of issues with Vick? He was tossed out of school for an accumulation of issues.quote:As for the stomp, Marcus Vick got booted from school for doing the same thing with cleats on, and nobody argued that was excessive.
quote:for laughing and high fiving with his teammates as he was leaving the floor
This is what got me more than anything. It's obvious he did it on purpose and he should be punished but not a whole season. I can see 4 - 6 games being enough.
I think I saw on ESPN last night the conference gave him a 1 game suspension.
Using the Auggie example... wait till news breaks about another college baseball member who ran into trouble this past weekend.. from what i hear the punishment is really going to make Texas look foolish IMO
Let's not bring the racial stuff into this.
I think it was deliberate (IMO) but I don't get the year suspension.
Garrito should man up and resign.
The UF player was a 5th year senior, I suspect one in a program that long should know what's expected.
Good lesson here to teach your kids, you never know what consequences you will face when you mess up.
I think it was deliberate (IMO) but I don't get the year suspension.
Garrito should man up and resign.
The UF player was a 5th year senior, I suspect one in a program that long should know what's expected.
Good lesson here to teach your kids, you never know what consequences you will face when you mess up.
Texas has opened up a can of worms. All athletes (not just baseball players) who were given more sever punishments for prior infractions now have a legitimate complaint that Texas is hypocritcal. Plus if an athlete gets in trouble from now on out for DUI and gets removed then it could get ugly.
quote:Good lesson here to teach your kids, you never know what consequences you will face when you mess up.
IMO skipping class is messing up. Missing practice is messing up. Stomping on someones head or face is criminal.
Danny, it's all in how things are perceived. I have my opinions, I didn't see this as a criminal act. The player was NOT hurt. I am not defending his actions, just whether the punishment was too steep.
Are you implying (as mentioned) that a pitcher is engaged in a criminal act when he plunks the hitter as payback.
Are two hockey players decking it out while officials watch a criminal act?
Is a football player engaging in a criminal act when he visiously takes down a QB?
Tell me where YOU would draw the line.
I am just curious. Sports can and will being out the best and worst in players. I do not disagree that this was not an accident, but where does one draw the line.
Are you implying (as mentioned) that a pitcher is engaged in a criminal act when he plunks the hitter as payback.
Are two hockey players decking it out while officials watch a criminal act?
Is a football player engaging in a criminal act when he visiously takes down a QB?
Tell me where YOU would draw the line.
I am just curious. Sports can and will being out the best and worst in players. I do not disagree that this was not an accident, but where does one draw the line.
TPM,
First let me say that what makes this site so great is we have posters on here who can disagree with each other and do it respectively. No barbs, no shots, just respect for each others opinion.
Now, I will take your examples one by one.
First, in baseball it is an unwritten rule or understanding the the plunk or brushback is part of the game.
Secondly, two hockey players decking it out is also part of the game. Has been and probably always will be. Now there are incidents where players have been brought up on criminal charges as it was deemed that their intent was to hurt someone which is criminal.
Thirdly, Football is a tough sport in which every play someone is throwing someone down hard, even to the extent that it appears they are trying to hurt them. A vicious hit on a quarterback is part of the game and if it's deemed to be too excessive, the player is dealt with by the referee's and league appropriately.
The three example you listed are more or less at the professional level and have rules and bylaws put in place. They all differ from the collegiate level.
There is no rule in place that say's what the penalty is if you stomp on a kids head in a basketball game. There are rough fouls, intentional fouls and flagrant fouls, all dealt with as part of the game.
Sooo, in my opinion, a dead ball, intentional stomp on a head or face could be seen as criminal if the intent was to hurt, and as you stated, it's how others perceive it. Obviously they thought it was accidental or he would of received more than a one game suspension.
Just my opinion!
First let me say that what makes this site so great is we have posters on here who can disagree with each other and do it respectively. No barbs, no shots, just respect for each others opinion.
Now, I will take your examples one by one.
First, in baseball it is an unwritten rule or understanding the the plunk or brushback is part of the game.
Secondly, two hockey players decking it out is also part of the game. Has been and probably always will be. Now there are incidents where players have been brought up on criminal charges as it was deemed that their intent was to hurt someone which is criminal.
Thirdly, Football is a tough sport in which every play someone is throwing someone down hard, even to the extent that it appears they are trying to hurt them. A vicious hit on a quarterback is part of the game and if it's deemed to be too excessive, the player is dealt with by the referee's and league appropriately.
The three example you listed are more or less at the professional level and have rules and bylaws put in place. They all differ from the collegiate level.
There is no rule in place that say's what the penalty is if you stomp on a kids head in a basketball game. There are rough fouls, intentional fouls and flagrant fouls, all dealt with as part of the game.
Sooo, in my opinion, a dead ball, intentional stomp on a head or face could be seen as criminal if the intent was to hurt, and as you stated, it's how others perceive it. Obviously they thought it was accidental or he would of received more than a one game suspension.
Just my opinion!
I think he should be suspended for a month and sent to Danny's house to learn how to behave himself. Danny will take care of those conduct issues! 
Did you ever wonder where "Thank you sir, may I have another" came from? And you thought it was Animal House. 
quote:Did you ever wonder where "Thank you sir, may I have another" came from?
Attababy! We're going to send all 8 of those babies born today over to your place too
RJM, yes, younger Vick had other issues, but the stomp sealed his fate. And he is exactly nowhere today-washed out after a year with the Dolphins.
Life ain't fair I guess-doesn't everyone take a pistol with them to McDonalds? (One of his compiled acts of stupidity).
Life ain't fair I guess-doesn't everyone take a pistol with them to McDonalds? (One of his compiled acts of stupidity).
I agree that the player showed unsportmanlike conduct and it should be addressed, I could even see being suspended the rest of season, but I am not into a full year suspension. I do understand that there may have been intent to harm, but was there really intent to harm or send a message. That we don't know. Was he given a previous warning?
Your son is a college pitcher and designated to be the message sender, he does so on an inside pitch and hits the hitter and breaks his hand. He gets suspended for a year, it was perceived as a malicious act with intent to harm. He actually lost control of the ball. Because of the unwritten rules, it's ok?
Is this the first college basketball player ever to step on anyone?
I am just wondering, where do we draw the line. Where do we say one player gets a 4 game suspension and one a year. Where is consistancy?
BTW, criminals get off on more serious offenses.
Sports is a highly emotional game, and there are no written rules in any rulebook that I know of for pitchers plunking, football and basketball players taking cheap shots, or hockey players beating the **** out of each other. According to my understanding, in pro sports it's ok. Where do we draw the line?
These are still kids playing high stake games.
Your son is a college pitcher and designated to be the message sender, he does so on an inside pitch and hits the hitter and breaks his hand. He gets suspended for a year, it was perceived as a malicious act with intent to harm. He actually lost control of the ball. Because of the unwritten rules, it's ok?
Is this the first college basketball player ever to step on anyone?
I am just wondering, where do we draw the line. Where do we say one player gets a 4 game suspension and one a year. Where is consistancy?
BTW, criminals get off on more serious offenses.
Sports is a highly emotional game, and there are no written rules in any rulebook that I know of for pitchers plunking, football and basketball players taking cheap shots, or hockey players beating the **** out of each other. According to my understanding, in pro sports it's ok. Where do we draw the line?
These are still kids playing high stake games.
TPM-
A hypothetical can be very difficult to argue so I won't even try. Let's just say my son doesn't throw hard enough to break anyone's wrist.
I feel I have stated my case pretty solidly and I'm sure you feel you have too.
It's obvious we are looking at this from two different angles and are not going to change each others mind. You hold on to your opinion and I will hold on to mine. We will just agree to disagree.
A hypothetical can be very difficult to argue so I won't even try. Let's just say my son doesn't throw hard enough to break anyone's wrist.
I feel I have stated my case pretty solidly and I'm sure you feel you have too.
It's obvious we are looking at this from two different angles and are not going to change each others mind. You hold on to your opinion and I will hold on to mine. We will just agree to disagree.
quote:These are still kids playing high stake games.
I don't know if I'd go that far. These are student/athletes who except for pride have no stake in the game. When it's over they go to class and get ready for another game, where again they play with passion for pride. When their careers are over they go to work.
i've been reading this thread........ well because i do. i really do think a year is too much.
but being devils advocate. i wonder now if this could be considered assault.
i know the situation is different, but how about the minor leaguer that threw the ball into the stands? he meant to throw it in the dugout. would he have been arrested if it went into the dugout?
these aren't crimes in my book......but nobody reads my book. i'm wondering if you had an over zealous policeman at the game, could/would he arrest him?
makes you think.
but being devils advocate. i wonder now if this could be considered assault.
i know the situation is different, but how about the minor leaguer that threw the ball into the stands? he meant to throw it in the dugout. would he have been arrested if it went into the dugout?
these aren't crimes in my book......but nobody reads my book. i'm wondering if you had an over zealous policeman at the game, could/would he arrest him?
makes you think.
Posted by Natural on the Texas board
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Today at the University of Florida they dealt much more severely with a senior starting pitcher for the exact same offense. What a shame when a 22 year old loses his senior season, but a 70 year old head coach receives a slap on the wrist. Here's the story from the Tampa Tribune...
"LOCKE OUT: The Gator baseball career of Tampa pitcher Stephen Locke has come to an abrupt end. Florida officials said Monday that Locke is no longer with the team after his arrest early Saturday on charges of DUI. Locke was released on his own recognizance and ordered not to drink or drive until at least his next, yet-to-be scheduled court date.
He had 12 starts for the Gators last season, second on the team. He was 5-2 with a 3.17 ERA in a career-high 21 appearances. He struck out 46 batters and allowed just 13 walks in 821/3 innings. He had the Gators' lowest ERA in SEC play (2.91)."
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Now how many takers do we have on Augie getting soft treatment?
---
Today at the University of Florida they dealt much more severely with a senior starting pitcher for the exact same offense. What a shame when a 22 year old loses his senior season, but a 70 year old head coach receives a slap on the wrist. Here's the story from the Tampa Tribune...
"LOCKE OUT: The Gator baseball career of Tampa pitcher Stephen Locke has come to an abrupt end. Florida officials said Monday that Locke is no longer with the team after his arrest early Saturday on charges of DUI. Locke was released on his own recognizance and ordered not to drink or drive until at least his next, yet-to-be scheduled court date.
He had 12 starts for the Gators last season, second on the team. He was 5-2 with a 3.17 ERA in a career-high 21 appearances. He struck out 46 batters and allowed just 13 walks in 821/3 innings. He had the Gators' lowest ERA in SEC play (2.91)."
---
Now how many takers do we have on Augie getting soft treatment?
quote:Your son is a college pitcher and designated to be the message sender, he does so on an inside pitch and hits the hitter and breaks his hand. He gets suspended for a year, it was perceived as a malicious act with intent to harm. He actually lost control of the ball. Because of the unwritten rules, it's ok?
Just my take on this hypothetical situation being different from the basketball situation. If the person hit with the pitch was standing in the on deck circle or out of the box looking for a sign from the Coach and the Pitcher nailed him, it would be intent to harm and would be criminal assault.
It is the hitters responsibility to get out of the way on a wild pitch or know how to take it to protect himself. If in the act of fouling someone intentionally in the course of the game (live action) a player takes another player down hard, it's just a flagrant foul. When it happens well after the whistle to a person laying on the floor in a defenseless position, it is criminal assault. That's just my opinion.
That's ok, I was just throwing some stuff out there for discussion, I do agree that it was wrong, just not sure of the punishment.
As far as the UF player, what a shame, really, I am sad for him and I am sure so is his former coach, not too sure that his punishment would fit his crime either, but sometimes we don't know all of the circumstances.
As far as the UF player, what a shame, really, I am sad for him and I am sure so is his former coach, not too sure that his punishment would fit his crime either, but sometimes we don't know all of the circumstances.
powertoallfields,
It's not just your opinion-you are correct. Below is the definition of battery which is a criminal act. If one determines that it was NOT an accident, then it has to be intentional. Not debatable, unless states have differing definitions of battery.
Battery:
The unlawful and unwanted touching or striking of one person by another, with the intention of bringing about a harmful or offensive contact.
It's not just your opinion-you are correct. Below is the definition of battery which is a criminal act. If one determines that it was NOT an accident, then it has to be intentional. Not debatable, unless states have differing definitions of battery.
Battery:
The unlawful and unwanted touching or striking of one person by another, with the intention of bringing about a harmful or offensive contact.
That player should not only be susended from the team but kicked off and be charged with a felony assault.