Should he go to a showcase?

But if he is not at 100% will it hurt him more than help?

He has the whole summer of 2012 to showcase when he is fully healthy and has a season of facing live batters. 6'6" and throwing 89 will get plenty of notice so don't rush it. My two cents worth is wait till summer.

That's sort of our feelings too but he is very, very anxious to start, after reading the posts on here he feels that he is way behind and he wants to make up for lost time.

Do not take my opinion as gospel because it does not come from experience in your particular injury/recovery situation.
My son is a RHP and almost 6'5" and growing, so they are close physically. He throws in the mid 80's and has hit 88. We assumed he would be seen playing for a state championship team and did not go the exposure route. Now he is a senior and we are way behind in the game without him being committed. I am now a firm believer that the way of thinking we used was wrong, and that you need to get your son out there to be seen as much as possible in his junior year unless he is considered a "stud". Even then the exposure is not going to hurt.

However, with your son not being 100%, I'd seriously consider not having him comeback too soon and risk injury. Furthermore, if he has a bad outing I'd think it might do more harm than good. It will certainly be a waste of time and money, and might even knock his confidence. Remember many good players attend these events, so he might be facing some formidable kids and not have his stuff. The scouts will not be overly concerned with X' & O's, because they are looking at mechanics among other things, but if he gets hammered, that will not be good.
For example a player from my sons school went to PG this past weekend and got hammered giving up 9 earned runs in 2/3 innings. He was not a strong pitcher mentally to begin with and had a fragile psyche. Now he is even more shaky mentally according to my son, and thinking about hanging up his glove. The point being your son needs to feel confident in his ability to pitch in addition to his physical condition. So give him time to fully recover, and most importantly make sure a top pitching coach looks at his mechanics to insure that was not the cause of his original arm/shoulder problems.

Good luck

I agree that if he is not 100%, he should wait until he is.

If he is not known, the first impression will be more damaging than if he is known and is making a recovery back to what they know he did before.

This is besides the potential injury question of trying to come back too soon and over throw.

Good Luck, enjoy the ride!

quote:

Originally posted by hokieone:
He has the whole summer of 2012 to showcase when he is fully healthy and has a season of facing live batters. 6'6" and throwing 89 will get plenty of notice so don't rush it. My two cents worth is wait till summer.

I am with hokieone on this one, never showcase unless in proper condition. It could hurt you more than help you. Use this time to fully recover from the injury with a good throwing program, conditioning, etc., so that he can play through spring, summer and fall. Find a good travel team for exposure next summer(the key here because of your location)and explore camp opportunities of programs that may be the right fit for him (academic and athletic). Make it a priority to get to a PG showcase for a good evaluation. Pro workout and tryouts are great for the experience to see what you need to work on.

Sometimes it's very confusing reading all that is posted here and the route taken by others. IMO, it's not what you do but if those choices are the right ones and seen in front of the right people at the right time.

He is very confident in his ability to perform and is throwing with no problems on the throwing program put together by his sports physical therapist, he did well when he did pitch in the summer, even when he was hurting, and had the good sense to shut himself down before he hurt himself. Now, with the throwing that he's doing, he feels like he is 100% but I guess what I don't understand is how do you know you are 100% if you're not actually in a game situation and is it that much different than practice pitching. I know he wouldn't do anything to physically hurt himself but, other than asking him how he feels how do we know if he's ready?

We are in a difficult situation geographically and very limited in that everything we do will involve pretty significant travel, adding to it our ignorance on the whole process makes it pretty overwheming.

You really odn't know until you throw to live batters.

FWIW, my pitcher sort of went through what your son did, he missed his sophmore fall due to some tendinitous, after therapy went through a proper throwing program and conditioning program then shut down until spring. I do know that our spring begins sooner than yours, so he didn't have to shut down for too long, so you do have that dilemma to consider.

Are they still playing fall ball up by you, how about a college showcase that may not cost that much?

No baseball now and probably nothing until April here! I don't know of any college showcases - how do you find them

Google , Baseball Showcase . Go to a local hitting facility and ask if they know any good ones ? Sometimes local colleges put on camps ( that are really showcase events ).

vtmom,

The most important recruiting time is the summer before Senior year, so your son has plenty of time and should as the other poster's stated make sure he is fully recovered. If you could find a local college showcase that would be low pressure and he could ease into things that would be terrific. But if not, then something shortly before school starts would work. He may have to travel south to find something with the weather factor. I will say this though. If he is six-six and can throw 89 consistantly, he could be here in TX where there are tons of great players and he would get noticed. So the whole thing is to get him out there definitely this coming summer. The larger, better program you are looking for, the further you have to cast the net. Good Luck!

vtmom,

You can ease your mind about being way behind and wanting to make up for lost time. Although you hear a lot about the few top-shelf players who commit early in their junior year, next summer is when most of the action will happen for the class of 2012.

Fear not. A player with your son's frame and velocity isn't behind. He might not be known yet, but he is not behind.

I fully agree with the posters who say not to showcase him until he is healthy.

One thing I'd add: You didn't say anything about his summer travel team. Does he have one? Does its coach have a strong record of sending players from your area to colleges your son would be interested in?

As a parent who doesn't really know the ropes, the single best thing you can do is get connected with a travel coach who does know which tournaments, showcases, and camps make sense for your son, his skill, and his goals. If he is already on a good travel team, you should be directing these questions to the coach.

You might want to PM Trhit: he knows northeast baseball real well and can advise you on suitable teams.

Good luck--and please update this thread as your son does get known.

One more thing I almost forgot TRHit is from that area I believe and possibly can help you via PM.

My son said , 6'6 throwing 89 , he can move into our basenemt and play with us in Georgia! We need another pitcher. Not to late to transfer ! Really with that frame , you are in great shape. I like the ideal about attending a smaller camp / showcase first. TPX has one in Jan in Flordia . Cheap airfare and 75 degrees ! Also , alot of Fla coaches .

The key for this young man is that time is on his side. Being a 2012 he has all of next summer and fall to be seen and seen when he is in tip top baseball shape

In my experience I have seen too many HS players return too early---not only do they not perform up to their true talent but they take the chance of injuring themselves.

Have him take his time so he can do it right.

I agree.

VTMOM

You have a PM

“how do we know if he's ready?”

The problem here is in order to make the all mighty dollar the showcase (baseball evolved ignorance) establishment does not care about or understand interval training timeline!

The day after the last summer game, pitchers should start an interval “sport specific “ training program where they slowly build up by going into complete training regression by making continual physiological gains weekly that will leave them in no condition to compete!

By participating in showcases, camps and games in the fall this never happens and they are in a continual train (work out somewhat) to detrain (I better rest to be ready for this event) timeline to mediocrity and then susceptible to injury from their injurious traditional mechanics.

When an athlete trains correctly all fall and winter with no breaks then Spring rolls around they are now completely ready!

Thank you everyone for the input, my head is spinning but it is all helpful!

Yardbird,

I really don't care whether pitchers want to shut down after summer.

However, I have to ask this question. Why do college programs play in the fall? Why do they hold camps in the off season? Why do professional players play in the fall and the winter leagues? Why do MLB clubs have instructs?

Also, would you describe a pitcher that ends up going early in the first round as taking the wrong approach if he plays beyond the summer?

Not saying you are wrong, but we can give hundreds of examples of those who did not follow your advice above. Did they take the wrong approach?

Scott Kazmir, Chad Billingsley, Matt Cain, John Danks, Gerritt Cole, Jameson Tallion, Shelby Miller, Nick Adenhart, etc. On the other hand, to be fair, we could name several who did not play after the summer season.

Also I take exception to your comments about "the all mighty dollar" and what exactly is "the showcase (baseball evolved ignorance) establishment"? Just to be clear, we are not part of any establishment.

BTW, would you describe those listed above as taking a "timeline to mediocrity"? Don't want to get involved in a discussion regarding traditional mechanics. That belongs in the pitching forum. I will say this... There is no reward without risk! It just doesn't ever happen in any baseball player. So I could say, playing it too safe will lead to mediocrity. Not to be confused with being stupid pertaining to the risk.

vtmom,

Your son sounds very interesting. However, not knowing the entire situation, I can't suggest what to do. Every situation is different. Can say this... If he is not ready please don't attend any event, including ours.

I would email his information to staff@perfectgame.org, to make sure we know who he is. This does not cost anything and it will make sure he is in the database. It can be very important.

PGStaff,

quote:

”I really don't care whether pitchers want to shut down after summer”

Shutting down has nothing to do with this subject! They should not shut down they should turn it on and I’m not talking about competitions because the way they perform their mechanics they are in a perpetual detraining state by having to take time off to recover having their bodies atrophy while having to do so.

quote:

"Why do college programs play in the fall?

Good question ? why do they? They should be training this has already been stated.
How many head or assistant coaches understand sports physiology training timeline?
From what I’ve seen not many, I wish they would take the appropriate steps to do so and by me suggesting that they do so should not cause the same reaction you have just displayed that keeps the statis quo.

quote:

Why do they hold camps in the off season?

To pay out stipends to their coaches. These participants should be in training regression and unable to show their wares. The NCAA has something to do with this improper timeline also.

quote:

Why do professional players play in the fall and the winter leagues?

They hardly play and are coddled by non credentialed professionals who have been doing the same thing that they did. Would you admit to this if you actually saw and realized it?

If after they turn biologically 19 and are now adults they should be in full shape within 2 years of aggressive training and then able to maintain and compete year round but since there are few sports physiologists running the show this training timeline morphs into an the anecdotal yard myth training timeline of rest and detraining that never gets any of them into maximal shape at any time during the year even during spring thru summer competitions.

quote:

Why do MLB clubs have instructs?

You tell me? no mechanical instructs happen! This is a fact, they are professionals who do what they want anyways. Instructs is a waste of time! The coaches are paid on year round contracts and are asked to participate during this dead period.
When an adult pitcher ends his last game of season he should immediately begin aggressive training and not be able to compete.

quote:

Also, would you describe a pitcher that ends up going early in the first round as taking the wrong approach if he plays beyond the summer?

If he is an adult he should then never shut it down unless he is injured, this is a physiological fact, do you understand this sports physiological tenet? I know the establishment does not.

quote:

”Not saying you are wrong”

How can you say this if it is the first time you have probably heard this? and the only reason I am answering you is because you asked me to and I am taking a chance here on being censored because you are an advertiser that this information goes against. I have been wanting to correct you on many falsities you have stated in the past but know what has happened in the past to others who speak their minds, especially when the truth is uttered that is opposite of evolved anecdotal belief.

quote:

"we can give hundreds of examples of those who did not follow your advice above. Did they take the wrong approach?

They took the lesser approach that leads to the results they have been all dealing with in regards to their athletic health that is reversible.

quote:

"I take exception to your comments about "the all mighty dollar" and what exactly is "the showcase (baseball evolved ignorance) establishment"

This is the way it has anecdotally evolved, I’m not against you making a dollar off of those who can afford you but believe you should be running your showcases in the summer only! Not in the fall and winter when these youth athletes should be in training regression. It is what it is, take it or leave it. Establishment ignorance is not just with the showcase orgs but rampant within all. IMO.

quote:

“? Just to be clear, we are not part of any establishment.”

You are as big a part of the anecdotal baseball establishment as every other organization and again I believe you have your place, just remember If none of your type organizations existed, all the College spots would still be filled easily and with all deserving kids.

quote:

"would you describe those listed above as taking a "timeline to mediocrity"

If these adults all trained “sport specifically” and correctly they would all be as good as they can possibly be is what I am saying, right now with the way they approach their training and mechanics they are not, again this is a fact not a guess.

quote:

“Don't want to get involved in a discussion regarding traditional mechanics.”

You can’t have it both ways by saying this and then saying what comes next!

quote:

I will say this... There is no reward without risk!

Then take off those damm batting helmets! This statement is as ridiculous as it comes when what I am talking about is reducing the risk through training or mechanics!

quote:

“It just doesn't ever happen in any baseball player.”

When it comes to controllable pitching mechanics or and especially training you could not be so wrong in your statement. All athletes attempt to reduce risk while still retaining maximal effort and you making this ridiculous argument is way below you from what I have read from you in the past.

quote:

“So I could say, playing it too safe will lead to mediocrity.”

Your statement here is correct but that’s not what I’m talking about.
I’m talking about the disruption in training timeline that you participate in!

quote:

“Not to be confused with being stupid pertaining to the risk”

If your pitching mechanics are injurious as proven in thousands of traditional pitchers every year what else would you call it, pitchers seriously injure them selves then return to the exact same way they performed previously because some prestigious organization run by orthopedic surgeon that does not understand what they are doing recommends that it is not the mechanics, it is the number of pitches they throw, this is a travesty that just keeps the OR’s full over and over. What’s the old saying about repetition and stupidity?

You run your showcases when these youth players are not in shape, is this the risk you speak of? How about the kids whom are training hard and feel they are missing something if they miss Peoria or Jupiter or camps and they are going thru training regression, do you think you can give a fair evaluation at this time? Not knowing their actual condition?

Again let me make the suggestion that you should run your showcases at the appropriate time during the summer when these youth athletes are at least in fair shape to show their true potential at that time.

Sincerely,

Lon Fullmer
Saddleback Valley baseball

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo, we had direct examination, cross-examination, and now I guess we're on to re-direct...

Whew, glad I'm not in this one... (other than for my early, innocent, good for nothing advice to wait...)

Yardbird,

You seem to have invested a lot of time and energy into your positions. From what I read, you purport to know the path to ultimate baseball success while the "baseball establishment" does not. Instructs are a waste of time and camps are only held to line the pockets of instructors, if I read this right.

Pretty harsh...by the way, it's status quo, not statis.

Baseballdad1228,

quote:

“You seem to have invested a lot of time and energy into your positions’

My positions have been gathered after 40 years of coaching at every level and realizing nothing was changing and only getting worse. Since I have taken the course that I am now on things have changed for the better for my clients and only wish for you to think about what I am saying.

quote:

From what I read, you purport to know the path to ultimate baseball success while the "baseball establishment" does not

.

I was a part of the dogmatic baseball establishment thinking for over 30 years that was not working well for the athletes involved, I have made the change for the better.

quote:

“Instructs are a waste of time”

Most endeavors professional can be said the same when it comes to training and pitching mechanics but are slowly changing towards what I am talking about.
I had 12 kids just go through them again, what do you think they say?

quote:

“camps are only held to line the pockets of instructors”

Why else would Colleges perform this service with youth athletes?
I’ve been there and done that, I’m not lying to you and don’t believe the derogatory word you (line their pockets) used did I use. These assistant coaches do not get paid well and need these camps to help out. It is what it is, it is not necessary to pick athletes as it is believed to do and a distraction to the training timeline I am talking about.

quote:

“if I read this right”

You have not taken or read this right! Try seriousness next time

I always keep an open mind and work on learning all I can. Your positions are, in fact, only your opinion based on your baseball experiences. While you are entitled to them, they do not make you the final authority on sports training in baseball. You also launch them from one of the most condescending and cynical perches imaginable. It doesn't make you seem more intelligent, it just makes you appear pompous.

The baseball establishment is filled with knowledgable sports medicine staffs who utilize state-of-the-art training methods and procedures to maintain and advance the health of their pitchers. I trust them. Good luck training your guys.

Lon,

You sure went to a lot of work there. It's not really necessary to dissect every word.
I actually disagree with some of what you write, but I’ve seen you in action at the Pitching Forum and I’m a bit frightened by your extreme knowledge.

So rather than get into a long drawn out disagreement dealing with your last post, let me just point out a few things you have said here.

About colleges playing in the Fall you said… why do they? They should be training this has already been stated.
How many head or assistant coaches understand sports physiology training timeline?
From what I’ve seen not many.

So you know more than college coaches including some that are considered legends in the game?

About instructs you said… Instructs is a waste of time!

And you know more about this than the MLB organizations?

About Pro Ball Winter and Fall Baseball Leagues you said… They hardly play and are coddled by non credentialed professionals who have been doing the same thing that they did. Would you admit to this if you actually saw and realized it?

Without knowing for sure, I would bet you my right arm that I have not only seen more of this than you, but know much more about this than you do. Your not the only person who has been around for over 40 years.

About me you said… I am taking a chance here on being censored because you are an advertiser that this information goes against. I have been wanting to correct you on many falsities you have stated in the past but know what has happened in the past to others who speak their minds, especially when the truth is uttered that is opposite of evolved anecdotal belief.

You’re not taking any chances here. I would never want someone censored simply because they didn’t agree with what I say. I’ve said here very many times that I have been wrong and do make mistakes. How about you, you ever been wrong? Who are you to say that “I have been wanting to correct you on many falsities” Have at it, that is an absolute insult. What are these falsities you speak of? Speaking their minds? Are you shi**ing me. There have been people (competitors) come on here to try and discredit us, if that is what you mean. In several cases they have been discovered and revealed. And who exactly are you to claim falsity or try to correct anyone?

You also said… You are as big a part of the anecdotal baseball establishment as every other organization and again I believe you have your place, just remember If none of your type organizations existed, all the College spots would still be filled easily and with all deserving kids.

Yes, so why in the heck do these college coaches come to these events looking for players. Especially seeing they can fill their rosters with deserving kids? Yes, the rosters would be full except it might be with at least some different players.

When I mentioned risk vs reward you said… Then take off those damm batting helmets! This statement is as ridiculous as it comes!

Everyone including you knew what I was referring to. I’ll let others decide which statement is ridiculous.

Then after several comments regarding mechanics which still have not been well received here and very much unproven at the highest level, you said… Again let me make the suggestion that you should run your showcases at the appropriate time during the summer when these youth athletes are at least in fair shape to show their true potential at that time.

Well Lon, Had we done that Carl Crawford might be playing in the NFL. Jameson Tallion would have had to wait another year to be so well known nationally. Thousands of draft picks and college scholarships might have been different.

I do appreciate you signing your name. I respect that and I’m sure you’re a good baseball coach. But I learned a long time ago, that those who think they know everything are the ones who have the most to learn. I’ve never met the person who knows everything about baseball. That’s because that person does not exist. I seriously doubt that you are that person! BTW, the one thing that counts the most? RESULTS!

This is truly an interesting debate!!!

Do not be fooled by my avatar. I'm really not that stupid, just a bad gambler!

baseballdad1228,

quote:

‘I always keep an open mind and work on learning all I can”

When your head stops rolling around then this will be believed.

quote:

“Your positions are, in fact, only your opinion based on your baseball experiences.”

In fact they are based on sound sports physiological training tenets no matter what the sport and then applied to baseball and that’s all I was giving, you made it bigger than it was

quote:

“While you are entitled to them, they do not make you the final authority on sports training in baseball”

I realize I am not entitled to my own facts but I try to stick to actual know sports physiological facts. This is wholly lacking in the established baseball training techniques and timelines of today.

quote:

“You also launch them from one of the most condescending and cynical perches imaginable”

Sometimes the truth hurts especially when dealing with pitching injuries, I apologize if anything I say that is opposite what you believe and hurts in anyway, just let me know when I cross this line and I will try to put it in a more politically correct manor for you, sorry.

quote:

“:It doesn't make you seem more intelligent, it just makes you appear pompous:”

This is not what I want but how else do you say that training is disrupted by trying to compete when you should be training? I’m not to good at beating around the bush and my intent is not to look intelligent here, I’m not the one selling something.

quote:

”The baseball establishment is filled with knowledgeable sports medicine staffs who utilize state-of-the-art training methods and procedures to maintain and advance the health of their pitchers. I trust them.”

I used to trust them with their general and non “sport specific” training techniques but they have had their chance and have failed, it’s time to make a positive change to actual exacting physiological tenets that work.

quote:

“Good luck training your guys”

No luck necessary now, we have a much better handle on it!
Thanx for the encouragement, it’s an uphill battle

PGStaff,

quote:

”I actually disagree with some of what you write, but I’ve seen you in action at the Pitching Forum and I’m a bit frightened by your extreme knowledge”

I do not want or expect you to be frightened by or lower yourself to making absolute condescending insults as the subliminal statement “extreme knowledge” as you have always discussed with others on a respectful basis in the past.

quote:

”So you know more than college coaches including some that are considered legends in the game?”

I have great respect for all coaches at all levels whether they proceed correctly or not and believe the College coaches do a 10 fold better job than professional coaches and realize most of them are properly credentialed

quote:

“And you know more about this than the MLB organizations?”

These questions and all the previous ones have not addressed what I was even talking about, why the dance? MLB organizations do very little in the way of mechanical diagnosis or training and you know this, I think?

quote:

”Without knowing for sure, I would bet you my right arm”

Nobody has questioned your knowledge only your proceedings, there is no knowledge competition going on here, BTW, Dr.Richand Kimble is now looking for you.

quote:

”About me you said”

Don’t get all touchy feely, you interjected yourself here, I am hoping to stick around, we will see, I was talking about the situation that exists at all these boards when someone important has their feeling hurt by the truth.

quote:

“ I would never want someone censored simply because they didn’t agree with what I say.”

This would not be your decision now would it?

quote:

“I’ve said here very many times that I have been wrong and do make mistakes.”

I have never questioned you ethics and respect you very much as I have read you many times and enjoy every one of them.

quote:

“How about you, you ever been wrong?”

Did you not read where I admitted to being wrong when I followed the established dogma in my past?

quote:

“I have been wanting to correct you on many falsities”

I have never commented on some of your wrong headed mechanical beliefs in the past, would you like me to start? I think not?

quote:

“There have been people (competitors) come on here to try and discredit us, if that is what you mean.”

Absolutely not, you guys do a great job, all was talking about is what you have not still yet addressed

quote:

‘Yes, so why in the heck do these college coaches come to these events looking for players.”

Again your events are fine for the upper middle class and above, it is your I’ll timing that is bothersome and you seem to not understand this by your silence on my actual complaint.

quote:

“Then after several comments regarding mechanics which still have not been well received here and very much unproven at the highest level”

These tenets have been proven at all levels but then you must say what the people want to hear by taking this stand, understandable. Then you would have had to notice them?
I have had hundreds of kids go through your process and even been rated at the top, you were totally oblivious to the differences in them.

quote:

“Well Lon, Had we done that Carl Crawford might be playing in the NFL”

For this I have to commend you, this Marshallized trainer lost Mark Sanches in the same manor.

quote:

“ Jameson Tallion would have had to wait another year to be so well known nationally. Thousands of draft picks and college scholarships might have been different”

This is your weakest argument about kids whom would have found their place but then again I’m NOT against what you do only your timing.

quote:

” But I learned a long time ago, that those who think they know everything are the ones who have the most to learn.”

So. You are telling someone who did it your way for 30 years then learned he was in error by learning new knowledge that he has not learned, catch my drift? I am in the extreme in the quote you so fondly quip!

quote:

“I seriously doubt that you are that person! BTW, the one thing that counts the most? RESULTS!”

I am not here or care less for your opinion of me, I am here so parents of and or youth pitchers have a chance to make a informed choices so that their RESULTS lead them to healthy and correct advancement.

Can you please now talk about the concerns I registered? Since you are so much more knowledgeable than me please tell me how you missed the fact that these athletes training is negatively effected by attending your events during this time period? Or have I missed something and you actually have a questioner asking the athletes where they are at in their training regimens so you can weigh this against their performance?

Okay Yardbird, what do you recommend for position players and pitchers (if it's different) to be doing from the end of their season (or now for that matter) until the HS season begins in late Feb?

Yardbird,

I laughed at the picture with the smoking head...get over it.

As I said, you have your opinions and perspectives. If you are making money from people buying into your training schedule, good for you.

Good luck not needing luck...lol

Hi vtmom,

I feel your confusion and pain, but do not worry you are not hurting your son, just the contrary you are helping him.

Idea after YOU ARE SURE HE IS PAIN FREE, see what he is clocked at now, and if 85 ++ then try having him at a local indoor college camp thats not to expensive. but make sure they are going to clock him. While they do this you should be filming him for the dvd video you are going to create of your son.

Your son has strengths that can not be coached , he is 6'6" and shows tons of upside. Start sending e mails to the recruiting coords of colleges he wants to go to you will be surprised how much interest you my get. I would not worry abut the live games if yoiu can not find any right now. The camp will offer you the validation of your sons velocity which yoi can cite in your e mails and video.

quote:

vtmom,

Your son sounds very interesting. However, not knowing the entire situation, I can't suggest what to do. Every situation is different. Can say this... If he is not ready please don't attend any event, including ours.

I would email his information to staff@perfectgame.org, to make sure we know who he is. This does not cost anything and it will make sure he is in the database. It can be very important.

Since so much has been written contrary to my response to vtmom, thought it should be repeated.

I have nothing against off season training, pitchers shutting it down, or even being out of shape. That is not our decision to make. All we can do is tell people if they are not ready, don't come! That was the message above.

If there is any disadvantage in sending us information about a player, I don't know what it would be. Anyone who thinks it's better if we don't know about a player has received bad advice.

All that said, there is no perfect guideline to reaching the top. It's been done many different ways. To be honest, it has been done with PG and it has been done without PG. So it's not a PG thing at all. The most important thing is to keep getting better.

Not sure how pitching mechanics got involved in this discussion. I don't recall mentioning that, but yardbird did write...

quote:

If your pitching mechanics are injurious as proven in thousands of traditional pitchers every year what else would you call it, pitchers seriously injure them selves then return to the exact same way they performed previously because some prestigious organization run by orthopedic surgeon that does not understand what they are doing recommends that it is not the mechanics, it is the number of pitches they throw, this is a travesty that just keeps the OR’s full over and over. What’s the old saying about repetition and stupidity?

First of all, you are wrong. The people we work with are very much into injury prevention in every way. That would include number of pitches, insufficient recovery time, conditioning AND mechanics.

Listen you throw less pitches and at lower velocity, you are less likely to get hurt. You are also unlikely to be successful. You throw underhand and your likely to stay healthy, but unlikely you will be successful. Here is the question... Would you rather have perfect mechanics or mechanics that are safer and be unsuccessful or would you rather have mechanical flaws but pitch in the big leagues. I know the answer is to have it both ways, but obviously that is not happening these days. My belief... If you butt your head against the wall enough times, sooner or later you will have a head injury. If you pitch long enough there is a very high percentage you will have an arm injury. The number of great pitchers who have had TJ surgery is astounding.

I have nothing but respect for Marshall and his beliefs. He is one very smart guy. However, we need to know the results. How many MLB pitchers have followed his plan (mechanics)? We can talk forever, but sooner or later it is all about the results. In time we might all find out that he was correct. It will take results for that to happen. He knows that!

PG,
I think you should only hold your showcases during the HS regular season. That way you can be sure that the kids are in playing shape. You might have a little problem with none of them being able to attend but that way they'll be as safe as they can possibly be until they all change to the truly safe mechanics.

BTW, I work with really smart, capable people every day and I don't think Marshall is anywhere near as bright as he thinks he is or as he has convinced people he is. I know PHDs who are absolutely brilliant and I know PHDs who aren't very smart. A PHD, especially in kinesiology, is no guarantee of brilliance.

We are being told that the way we do it is wrong and we should change. We are being told that you have the answers. So if you would give us some examples of pitchers that have followed this plan and have had success with it that would be great. If your so sold on Marshall mechanics there must be some players out there that you can use as examples. Some players that have reached the pinnacle of the profession because of Marshall mechanics.

If you can not give us examples of players that have done this what are you basing your belief in? If you can eliminate or reduce greatly the risk of injury from pitching and at the same time reach your full potential as a pitcher using Marshall mechanics give us some results that prove this. That would be very helpfull.

PG Staff,

You posted...

"I would email his information to staff@perfectgame.org, to make sure we know who he is. This does not cost anything and it will make sure he is in the database. It can be very important."

... do you recommend this to all kids interested in playing college baseball or just 6'6" kids wh throw 89mph?

Thanks