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Son is a "guaranteed walk on" at a D-1. After a pretty successful fall season (freshman), he met with coach and was told that he would be primarily a bench-player in the spring and they'd get him in for some at-bats. Last week, the coach did arrange for my son to play in the NYCBL for next summer. Current 3rd baseman is a junior who seems to have had a less-successful fall than my son. Should we be totally discouraged or is it common for freshmen to play this role on a D-1 team? There will not be a starting freshman on the infield as far as we can tell. Do coaches promise upper-classmen playing time for "sticking with them"?
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ClemsonP,

I cannot imagine a college coach rewarding a player with playing time just for sticking with the program.

I was curious about the basis for your opinion that your son had the better fall than the older player, and I ask you to consider a few possibilities:

First, the coach is not asking himself who seems to have had the more successful fall; he wants to know who can help him win more games in the spring. Much goes into that assessment including how he has seen the older player perform at game speed in previous years.

Second, fall appearances can be deceptive. For example, if the team has a scrimmage in which the pitchers don't throw breaking balls (a fairly common practice, especially early in the fall), no matter how hard your son hits a fastball, he will not have shown the coach he can hit a college-quality curve ball. Advantage goes to the older guy who has done it before in real games.

Third, there's just no reliable way for you or your son to know what questions the coach believes fall practice answered or how he weighs the information he has. For example, he may value the older player's power at the plate more than your son's greater range at third base.

So far, it sounds like the coach is holding up his end of the deal he offered last winter. He honored his guarantee of a roster spot, and he arranged for a summer team. Give him the benefit of the doubt.

Continue to encourage your son to work as hard as he can with the best possible attitude to make the most of whatever opportunities present themselves.

Best wishes,
I am pretty much going by my son's own assessment of fall games/scrimmages. He's a very realistic kid who has a lot of experience on travel teams so I do take his assessment as valid. I only saw one game myself. Breaking balls were thrown by pitchers during the fall in this case. The junior 3rd baseman has exactly 2 plate appearances over the last 2 years so not sure he is a "proven game player" at all. My son has a terrific attitude and is a hardworker. He won't be deterred by this disappointment. Thanks for your insight. Any thoughts on redshirting vs. being a "bench-player" through the freshman season?
The hypotheticals I offered were just a hint at the range of possibilities.

My point was that there is usually no way to know what a coach sees and thinks. This summer, I overheard two coaches from the same college discussing a high school player who had just roped an extra base hit. We were leaning against opposite sides of a stout light pole; they didn't see me, but I heard their unguarded conversation. Rather than being impressed by the hit, they crossed the player off their list because they agreed he has a particular flaw in his swing that they had found very difficult to correct in other players.

Parents and players usually look at results: Wow, he made a tough play. Coaches see a lot more and care about the details involved in how he made the play: the reaction time, the footwork, the balance, the catch and transfer, the quickness of the release, the velocity and accuracy of the throw. The guy who has more hits or fewer errors isn't always the one they prefer. They see more than you and your son do. They have evaluated more college players, and their living depends on their ability to get it right most of the time.

Of course, it is possible they are wrong. Your son might be correct in his assessment that he is as good as or better than the junior starting ahead of him. If so, he should take encouragement from that fact and just keep working to be ready to perform when he gets to play.

Either way, it's way too early to be discouraged.

It's also too early to think about red-shirting. Is he healthy? Is he ready to compete? He should compete if he gets the chance. There are no guarantees about future years. If he lets a year of his five-year clock pass without playing, that's a year he won't get better and it's a year he won't get back. Besides, it's not his call. There's no good way for a non-scholarship player who has just been told to expect a small role in the spring to suggest red-shirting in a way that reflects well on his sense of team.

Best wishes,
Last edited by Swampboy
While it is true that the player has no choice in the matter of red shirting, in our case we were glad our son (a position player) didn't lose a year of eligibility for five or ten games his freshman year when his team was stacked with older outfielders. It was not a wasted year as he still practiced, worked with weights more than the regulars since he is fanatical about working out and did so while the guys were on the road and made very good grades. On his team almost all freshmen are red shirted yet five key players (none of them seniors) in their run to the DII college World Series championship game were former red shirts. It is certainly not the worst thing in the world.
Last edited by Three Bagger
Always know there are no guarantees: I spoke to the dad of a "guaranteed walk-on" at a D-1 that historically would be considered a top 40 program, who made it through the fall, performed well per the coaches post-fall practice "exit interview", went into the spring of 2012 very excited, thinking he was the backup for a starting senior...and was cut, one week before the first game, with an apology saying "sorry, it's a numbers game".
Hokie, that is probably one of the worst case scenarios I think I've ever heard of with that happening. How horrible that is for that young man and his family. One would think that a Head Coach that most likely had previous experience with being able to detect talent would have been able to do something differently at the least.

My son had a good friend that he played against here locally in high school. This kid was SO talented and could catch as well as he could pitch or play any other position. He got a scholly out of HS to play at Georgia. The summer before he was to attend UGA his mother had been suffering from cancer and succumbed to it weeks before he was to leave. She was so excited for him that he had worked so hard to get a scholly to attend and play at UGA. He did it for her because he knew it made her proud during this time of her life. One week before he was to attend school the HC called him and said that he didn't have a spot for him and to go attend a local JUCO instead. If he had a good season, he'd bring him back the following year.

He had the season of a lifetime at this JUCO and was drafted by the Braves where he is now still playing MiLB ball for them. In the end it worked out fine but when it happened to him I can tell you it devastated him very deeply.

People talk all the time about how these head coaches have hard jobs recruiting and deciding who will or won't come back, etc. But young kids lives are sometimes adversely affected by their decisions in ways that can cause tail spins for them and their families.

What became of this young man of which you speak of?

YGD
I guess sir, the WE would be the entire family that has dedicated countless hours and money to help their son achieve a dream that he's had since he was 5 years old. If you've ever been through the process of trying to get noticed as a kid from upstate New York as a baseball player who is serious about the game, you'd understand how a family is emotionally involved in every aspect of it.
Everyone else, thank you for your intelligent responses and information.
clemsonp - TRhit may have been through the process... once or twice, with a kid or two, but they probably weren’t just his kids. He is just giving some thought provocative advice.

I don’t think you have any reason to be anything but proud of your son, he is still playing the game that he loves at a level that many will never have an opportunity.
clemonp,

My two cents...Frankly stated, most freshmen playing D1 baseball will be primarily bench players. Your son has nothing to be discouraged about if he had a productive Fall but did not win a starting position as a freshmen. Welcome to the club. I've seen this scenario play out before. The coach may test him in the early non-conference games to see how he does in his first college games. Your son needs to be ready to perform in whatever role he is asked to do. Those that perform well, make it difficult for the coach to take a productive player out of the lineup. After all, coaches like competition in their lineups and they certainly like to win.

The coach has taken him as a guaranteed walk-on, and arranged for him to play summer ball. I'm not sure I understand the issue if the coach has set expectations, and explained your son's role in the coming Spring. The coach sounds like a straight shooter so far.

Is there anything the coach has done or said to make you think he is treating your son differently than anyone else?
I've told my son's story a hundred times here on the hsbbweb but I'll keep telling it if I feel it will help someone...

I'll never forget the excitement when we dropped my son off on campus in the late summer of 2005. Seemed like it was only a couple of weeks later he was calling with good news that he had several hits in a scrimmage game and more than that, the coaches were complimenting him on his conditioning. I started thinking maybe, maybe my son would be the exception to the freshmen rule. At Christmas time, we received a nice handwritten note from the head coach and telling him how much they respected his work ethic and how they were expecting big things from him in the future. Obviously, that kind of encouragement jazzed the whole family up.

Fast forward to the spring...

I know he did not hit as well as he did in the fall but figured he had built up at least a little baseball capital with them. The last thing on my mind was that he would not make the team. A day before opening of the season he called very worried. He said that guys were getting their uniforms and he did not get one. I told him to check what was going on. He asked the equipment guy who told him they just did not have his uniform ready yet although that turned out not to be true. The next morning (Opening day 2006) he said they still did not have a uniform and I told him to ask the coach. That is when they informed him that he was redshirted and he called me in tears with the news.

When he told me, I thought what a cra-ppy way to manage a team - not letting a guy know his status until opening day and not informing him until he came to you. I didn't let on to my son however that I was discouraged. I do what I always do with him when there are setbacks and clemsonp, you better get used to this now, there are going to be setbacks EVERY year your son is in baseball. The one you are describing now is a minor one because right now, it appears your son has a roster spot. It is how you deal with setbacks that is the important point - not that they occur imho.

To finish the story, I told my son he could sit around and feel sorry about it or he could do something about it. Told him to have the best attitude on the team. Be the hardest worker. Be the first one there and the last to leave. Be willing to do all the team's dirty work like shagging balls and performing field maintenance. In short, I told him to go out there and be the best redshirt freshmen player in the country - and I meant that.

He did all those things and more to his eternal credit. His team started out horribly that year. They started their season 5-12. About four weeks into the season, a decent player who was not happy sitting on the bench asked the coach to be redshirted. They obliged and that turned out to be my son's first BIG break as that put him on the roster. That is my second piece of advice here clemsonp - the harder you work, the luckier you get and I have never seen anything to make me think otherwise. The joy in my son's voice when he called to inform me that he had been put on to the roster was priceless. It still brings a tear to my eye when I think about it.

About a week later, he got into his first game as a defensive replacement and of course our family was thrilled by that. He wouldn't turn 19 years old until a month after the college season was over. Imagine how your attitude changes toward things when you don't have something and suddenly how thankful you become for SMALL things.

He started getting put into the game as a defensive replacement but if the game lasted long enough where his turn would come up in the lineup, they would pinch hit for him and yes, he was disappointed by that but I kept encouraging him.

March 17th, 2006 and I am corny this way, tears come to my eyes every time I tell this story on the hsbbweb...

I worked past 6:00 PM that evening and coworkers encouraged me to go out for a drink to celebrate St. Patties day. It was a game night and frankly, I did not expect my son to play that night so I went out and had some fun as is customary on that day. When I got home, before checking the results of the game, I checked the hsbbweb and there seemed to be all kinds of hoopla down in the Ohio forum. I opened the thread and all kinds of people were congratulating me and my son for what he did and I hadn't even heard about it yet

Apparently, he got into the game as a late inning defensive replacement and his turn came up in the lineup. This time, they did not pinch hit for him. The game was tied in the 9th with the winning runner on base and two outs. All he did was line the first ball he saw and win the game and of course he was mobbed. That one hit changed his entire career. IMHO, he had the toughness and mental fortitude to be ready for that one at bat and that is something that I will always admire about him. Of course, he was lucky as well - it was St. Patties day for crying-out-loud and we have a little Irish on my mother's side of the family Smile

When he called that evening, it was one of the greatest conversations I've had in my entire life. There have fortunately been other conversations like that but no doubt that was one of the best. He shortly thereafter became a starter and hit nearly .400 the rest of the season. The team started that evening at 5-12 and ended the season at 30-27 and I have no doubts at all where they got their spark. They never won less 50 games in a season the rest of his career and they played in some very big games.

St. Patties Day will always be special in our family clemsonp and I would encourage you, your son, and your family to never be DISCOURAGED but to always be READY. You can't control other people's decisions but you can always control your own attitude and effort.
Last edited by ClevelandDad
ClevelandDad,

I have tears in my eyes too from reading your story about Tyler. Even though I knew how that chapter of his story played out, I really enjoyed reading it, and appreciate you sharing it because it is truly a helpful lesson for a discouraged parent or player.

For those who do not know this part of the story...

As ClevelandDad alluded, there have been a lot of exciting moments for his son since that freshman year of college. A ton of talent and even more hard work have brought him thru the pro ranks, so far advancing to AAA this past season. One step away from MLB!


Anyway, thanks CD for sharing your words of encouragement.

Julie
Last edited by MN-Mom
quote:
Originally posted by letsplay2!:
Cleveland Dad

What a terrific story told from the heart. Your son sounds like a great baseball talent who will no doubt succeed because of his winning attitude and motivation and desire.

Thanks.

First Julie - thanks for your comments and support as they are always appreciated.

letsplay2 - I don't think we've met before but it is my pleasure to welcome you here at the hsbbweb and thanks for your kind words.

They say there are five tools in baseball but I am convinced there are six and perhaps seven. The sixth tool comes from the heart and that is my son's best tool. His desire to succeed is his own and I take no credit for that as it all belongs to him. The seventh tool might be persistence in the face of adversity. Whatever it is, I would encourage all you out there to encourage your kid's sixth and seventh tools. They my not be the best players out there today, but five years from now, if they apply their tools everyday, they just might be. There is nothing more satisfying than that Smile
Last edited by ClevelandDad
quote:
They say there are five tools in baseball but I am convinced there are six and perhaps seven. The sixth tool comes from the heart and that is my son's best tool. His desire to succeed is his own and I take no credit for that as it all belongs to him. The seventh tool might be persistence in the face of adversity. Whatever it is, I would encourage all you out there to encourage your kid's sixth and seventh tools. They my not be the best players out there today, but five years from now, if they apply their tools everyday, they just might be. There is nothing more satisfying than that

Cleveland Dad, Thank you for sharing your story. My husband ALWAYS speaks of a 6th tool and we do believe my son has it. He is an extremely hard-worker and would never let some of the setbacks get him down. I guess my original post was meant to illicit the exact posts they did - is this unusual? This is our first foray into college sports. We know there will be ups and downs and how tough baseball life is. I love your story.
to all moms---- do not be led astray by the trhit hating venom of tpm------it may interest you to kn9ow that I happily married to a mom who is an ex fastpitch softball catcher who also coached and ran boys youth baseball and hoops leagues in her home town

=== Moderator note: Removed personal attack ~ Julie (MN-Mom) ===
Last edited by MN-Mom

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