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Should we monitor catcher workloads, pitch counts, too?

S smitlingsMember
Does any baseball authority, league recommend monitoring catcher's workload and pitch count? I DO NOW. My son pitches and catches, and even with careful monitoring, he sometimes has a sore arm after catching vs. pitching. I try to maintain a policy of pitch counts and IP-caught to monitor my catchers, and to refrain from using a player as a pitcher and catcher in the same day or same game to avoid overwork and overstressing the arm. Catchers will often work more IP and throw back more pitches back to the pitchers than pitchers and their pitch counts. How many catchers have arm trouble? Any research info from ASIM or anyone else? Little League in 2008 now recommends not allowing players to go from catching to relief pitching in the same game. What do your experts think? I worry about pitchers who also catch especially in tournaments where multiple games are played in the same day and in consecutive days without allowing for proper rest days for pitchers and catchers to rest and recover. Hard one to correctly decide upon.
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FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
quote:
My son pitches and catches, and even with careful monitoring, he sometimes has a sore arm after catching vs. pitching.

#1 there are no experts on this subject. Monitoring is only PART of the solution. YOU have to establish the proper routine before monitoring is effective. Your son might be being overused on a regular basis using the pitch counts/innings caught/days rest numbers you have established. There are no benchmarks because pitching/catching is such an unusual combination. You have to make your own guidelines using trial and error. Sounds like you need to re-tweak the numbers.

As far as JUST catching (no pitching) I think the legs and body wears down before the arm is abused.
Fungo
T TripleDad500+ posts
Fungo:
quote:
As far as JUST catching (no pitching) I think the legs and body wears down before the arm is abused.


This may be true, however when legs and body get tired and fatigued, elbow and shoulder will take a beating. This happened to my son.
When he gets over worked it shows up in his arm strengthed.

I should know this, but what is the typical work load for a college catcher and minor/major league??

My son caught 5 straight days at E. Cobb, had a day of rest Sunday and caught Monday. On Monday he was out of gas and arm velo was way down.
In a tournament this week and his arm Velo is still down from normal. Not having any real pain just tired. Makes you wonder how much a catcher can take without needing to shut down for a few weeks.
B baseball16810+ posts
My son, who catches along with playing MIF and OF, has had a history of arm problems. When his arm is health, he can catch doubleheaders and on back to back days with no pain. However, for the last 3 years, one day (after the previous day has had no pain) he has had pain in his arm.

I think it's a result of catching, and the throws that they make. His physical therapist told him that it's not the number of throws that hurts him. However, most throws that a catcher makes, whether back to the pitcher or down to second, are often with their shoulders open (think about going to their knees and throwing). Even though they may not be throwing the ball hard, this type of throwing uses only the rotator cuff and therefore adds strain to the shoulder.
S SKeep100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by smitlings:… I try to maintain a policy of pitch counts and IP-caught to monitor my catchers, …


I’m unclear on something here. Are you saying you some how combine PCs and IPs? If that’s it, please explain the thought behind it a bit more.

I get the PC’s, but completely miss what role the IP’s play. I can see PC OR Batters, but don’t quite get the purpose of both.
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
You should try to avoide having a pitcher catch or a catcher pitch because the arm motions are so different. If you throw correctly as a catcher you are going to have a short / compact motion that doesn't really circle down by the hip. To take a kid who throws like that then put them on the mound creates problems. If they try to do the whole arm circle like a pitcher it probably messes up both throws OR they continue to throw like a catcher from the mound and put too much stress on their arm.

One thing that helps maintain arm strength is working on their fundamentals about every other / third day. Most catchers never work on their footwork or throwing motion during the season or before a game. When they get tired they end up letting their mechanics slip and their arm suffers.

Another thing is keep them in shape. They need to run close to what pitchers run.

Plus these are kids and not men - give them a day off every once in a while.
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
Most of the arm injuries I have seen have been to catchers. Usually a rush to get the throw down and often not set properly. It is not so much a pitch count issue.
It is important for coaches to ask pitchers and catchers how they feel before going out to play before each inning especially at a young age. Alimit on innings and throws should be common sense and not a magic number pulled out of thin air.
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
quote:
I do think it is possible (and healthy) to pitch and catch- but after pitching I think you need a certain amount of time (depending on how much pitched) as well as rehab/recovery running/thera-band programs before catching (or pitching again).

I agree 100%! Having seen my son do both all through high school, summer ball and up until he was a junior in college, I know a player can stay healthy doing both. I still think it opens the door for problem if not done properly. I have no data to back up anything but I do think the key to a healthy arm is the recovery time and method AFTER pitching. Rest catchers arms? I don't see a big need to do so if they practice good sound fitness programs. It's not uncommon for catchers to catch virtually every day in pro ball. Arm problems? All positions experience arm problems. It can happen at any position.

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