Showball Baseball - St. Petersburg

Showball Baseball just emailed the skills assessment results to Players attending the showcase at Tropicana Field in St. Petersburg, Florida on August 8-9, 2008.

51 pitchers were allocated between the 8 teams. The raw data for the event just released indicates the following:

2 Pitchers hit 90 mph + on their fastball.
7 Pitchers hit 86-87 mph on the radar gun
17 Pitchers were in the 80-85 mph zone
25 pitchers were in the 72-79 mph range

Jason Ormond - Whitney Young Class of 2009 was on the Maroon Team. His fastball times were 81-82 mph; CB was coming accross the plate at 71 mph and CH was timed at 75 mph.

These 2009 prospects could play and most everyone was from the Southeast with hard hit balls. Jason pitched two innings at the Trop with accuracy and movement and was not hit hard. In the 1st inning all his balls were hit for outs. Two balls hit to center, one fly out to right and a 5-3 to end the inning. Format was four or five batters an inning.

Next inning 5 batters were faced; Single opened inning; 5-4 out; single; 6 Out; and the inning ended with an E-6. Great experience to warm up in the bullpen and play on a MLB field. Showball is doing this event again in December at Dodger Stadium.

Highly recommended.

What colleges were out there watching ?

Twelve schools;

1. LSU
2. Miami
3. South Carolina
4. Kentucky
5. South Florida
6. Auburn
7. Central Florida
8. Florida International
9. North Carolina State
10. Jacksonville
11. Fullerton
12. Stonybrook

I'm gonna have to defend Mark again here. I never ever recall him telling anyone his son is a Blue-Chip D-1 prospect. I've always had the idea he was a solid HS Pitcher who will likely end up playing ball at a very good school, not necessarily a big-time program but a very good school nonetheless.

People ought to keep in mind that the VAST MAJORITY of HS Players will never play D-1 and that any kid who goes on to play in college ought to be commended.

I guess that kids who are pitching at 91-92 aren't quite as plentiful as some would suggest and Mark's kid throwing in the low 80's is nothing to be ashamed of.

JMHO

FBD, I guess I can appreciate his honesty, but that's about all. What if every mom or dad posted their son's results from every showcase they attended? This forum would begin to look and act like a statistical mess. In that regard I find it inappropriate.

If your good enough, they'll find you. Plain and simple.

Doesnt PBR post all of the kids results from all of their showcases on their website for all to see ? Whats the difference ? I understand your point rosy , but i wouldnt characterize ormonds posting of his kids results as inappropiate . Let the man post without constantly getting pounded. whats the difference where its posted and by whom ?

the difference is they run the showcase so they are posting the results, people go there to look for the results of the showcase they just ran. People dont' come on here looking for showcase numbers.

sounds like a good event but not everyone has the means to attend a camp in florida. How's the scout league looking this year.

Sulltiger,

You don't see the difference between posting player's numbers on this website vs reading them on the PRB website? Why didn't you compare it to the reams of stats on the PG website? Same thing. That's where I go to see player's individual showcase numbers, not here.

I've never "pounded" this man, and didn't "pound" him now. But my opinion is exactly what I stated. You can characterize it anyway you want.

For sake of forum decorum, I deleted my sarcastic post (that FastballDad was referring to) regarding the posted velocity. I do take issue with one thing however. Although no one ever explicity claimed they were a blue-chip D1 prospect, there have been dozens and dozens of posts that have attempted to imply it imho. Even the listing of the 12 D1 schools in this thread is an attempt to imply something imho. That is why I was surprised by the low velocity numbers. Hype almost never lives up to reality here on the hsbbweb.

From the past postings, I assumed this person was hyping a high school all-american or what not. We had dozens of "Team USA" postings for example earlier this summer that seemed at the very least an attempt to mislead. Other postings have hyped accomplishments that are nothing more than ordinary high school results. Maybe the young man can tag on somewhere at the next level. We'll see.

The point is this ---If he wants to post it ...he should feel free to do so . Ever hear the old saying --if you dont have anything good to say ....

Im a regular poster on here and i dont mind at all reading his showcase results. Whats the big deal ?? Even if i didnt agree with it , i wouldnt make the man feel uncomfortable about posting ..its just not right . No need to be negative towards him and his postings concerning his son ..doesnt benefit anyone . Is he violating any type of board ettiquette or manners ?....no . Personal feelings should not come into play .

First, Mark never implied anything about what level his son was qualified to play on. He just posted results. Cleveland Dad can inferr whatever he wants, but Mark never hyped Jason as anything other than what he is. He just posted what happened in games.

People are in love with radar guns. Sam Dickstein went 15-0 with two no decisions for Norwood over the last two summers. He never got a D1 look, even though he consistenly beat teams with D1 players. He threw in the low 80's, a little harder than Jason. He is going to an excellent D3 program at Augustana. All he did was throw stikes in locations, and change speeds. He had excellent defense behind him, worked fast, and won. I think he could have won on the D1 level. We'll never know.

Jason will go to a good school because he has good grades and test scores. And, he gets guys out. Throwing strikes in good locations and changing speeds are what gets guys out. It will be interesting to see where Jason ends up.

GBSOUTH, I disagree with you. Top players fall through the cracks. That is why I promoted Robert Kennedy. He has hit 89 on the gun. Ryan McMillin was going to walk on at Illinois before Western Michigan happened to see him in a Kalamazoo tournament earlier this summer, and offered him a scholarship. That was late in the game and he played for high profile Lyons Township. They don't "just find you". You have to do some marketing.

Always great to get input from the Board!

Anyway just arrived in Boston today for the Harvard "Play to Win Camp" which takes place this weekend. He was at the Brown University camp a few weeks ago. There are lots of schools at this camp and I understand it is well attended by Illinois players. The two pitching coaches who are working with Jason (one high school and one college) are quite sure that he has more velocity to come. They are telling him to be patient and continue to work. He has a 6' 3" frame that is yet to fill out.

As a parent all I can do is support the passion that he has to play the sport. Time will tell.

GBSOUTH

Thats an old cliche that might have been true years ago ...but not so much anymore it appears. I wouldnt rely solely on someone finding me . Sometimes you need to out and find them .

Sully, c'mon now... Mark's use of this board has always been for the sole purpose of promoting his son. I am sure that if Jason were aware, he would be embarrassed. We've been through this before, and I DO think his use of this board is inappropriate. I don't see Mark making note of any other player's performances at these showcases. I am sure that you and BBall are outnumbered here. I, for one, can not wait until the world travels are done, and Jason commits somewhere, so that perhaps this foolishness will stop. Besides, you would think that Mark would be concentrating on OTHER issues right now, like trying to avoid being G*nglerized.

quote:

The two pitching coaches who are working with Jason (one high school and one college) are quite sure that he has more velocity to come. They are telling him to be patient and continue to work

Be careful here. I have heard it, seen it many times. It may NEVER come. The world would be full of guys throwing 90 mph fastballs if you believed all these guys... all you have to do is keep paying for lessons and wait.

Make sure he knows how to "pitch." He'll fit in somewhere.

Yeah..but get past all of that for now . You know he is going to post that stuff ..so just let him post . If you dont agree with it ..fine . But it is not inappropiate IMO . It may not be the way you or I would do it , but it is his way .so let it be. Stop trying to fight it ..the negative stuff after he posts gets older than his actual postings ( for lack of a better way to put it ) In the whole scheme of things i have no idea why this bothers people . Does it have some sort of affect on your lives ?

Like trying to tell a sick man to lay off the meds... An addict to avoid rehab..May-Treanor and Walsh to just let that ball go down the line..Batman to forget about the Joker. Just let it be, give in to the dark side. Nope. Not buying it. It's wrong, I tell ya! WOOOO! Almost fell off my high horse! That was scary..

Right now the focus is analyzing how he is throwing to getting the most efficiency out of his body. His arm and shoulder are not at efficiency to reaching his maximum velocity, so the focus presently is looking at mechanics to see where the extra mph are such as the position and angle of his shoulder, length of stride and movement changes that will unleash power within his motion to maximize torque from his lower body on up.

Also very specific weight training and more long toss are being done with a greater degree of consistency along with an analysis of his pitching mechanics through the use of video and isolation photos at various points in his motion to determine what should be changed. The physics of all of this is way beyond me, but what is being done because it is necessary to look at in order to develop his college pitching ability.

To me the really interesting aspect is looking closer at the raw data that is presented from the Showball showcase event. This was an excellent showcase that attracted a large number of pitchers (as well as really good hitters) and to see the dispersion of mph to a virtual 50-50 divide between those above 80 mph and those throwing below is something I had never done. Clearly every mph added is a step toward learning what is humanly possible in the act of throwing a baseball.......safely.

What I know from many years of watching is that Jason is very coachable and wants to learn. He has never been able to rely on velocity to get batters out. It is my opinion that the later the velocity is developed and comes, the less wear and tear that exists on the body in the performance of a highly volatile motion on the arm and shoulder.

velocity and projectibility will always be the main factors in D1 pitchers. They don't care that the kids are 15-0 in summer league games. If your a RHP and your not throwing mid 80's with good off-speed pitches it's going to be hard for you to get outs more than once through the order at the Division 1 level. LHP are a different story.

The Lyons kid was found, i'm sure he had some offers from smaller schools but wanted to set his sights higher and waited and it worked out. Keep in mind alot of HS coaches don't do much for the kids in terms of trying to get them to the next level.

quote:

Keep in mind alot of HS coaches don't do much for the kids in terms of trying to get them to the next level.

Amen on that one.

What should the High School coaches do? This is a serious question.

My son's High School caoch has been nice enough to offer to help. Does that mean give him a list of the coaches that have already expressed interest and have him call on my son's behalf? Does it mean to have him call any contacts he has?

What is a reasonable request?

Same question for summer travel coach.

I believe that Nc42 and Nails were referring to the actual development of baseball skills that the ball player posesses during the 3-4 years of tenure that he is resident in the high school baseball program that will allow him to make the jump to the next level of play. The aptitude of being a good high school ball player does not necessarily translate to being selected to play at the next level. Skill levels and knowledge of the game must be developed.

So taking this one step further as it relates to the recruiting process, it is rare for a high school coach to make referral calls. However, networking is important and if the high school baseball coach has the level of respect for your son that he wants to make calls, etc., by all means accept that assistance. Give him all of the data he needs to work on your son's behalf. Perhaps provide him with a binder with his name on it with transcripts, test scores, sports and other honors so that he has something that he can refer to and talking points that he can speak from.

Most importantly the ball player should give the coach some indication of what kind of school he is looking to attend. The responsibility for this should be on the ball player to provide his thoughts on geographical location, size of school, specific interests as far as his major and any other areas that will influence his decision. College baseball is about attending college and there is nothing worse than a high school coach opening a door and the player declining because he is not interested in that school for some reason that was not communicated on the front end.

bballdad1954, your coach should be able to assist you in many ways. Along with a letter of reference, he should be able to help by providing statistics. He should have many contacts at various levels that can also assist him in finding your son a place to play. Now, the trick is where does your son want to play? We set up a "portfolio" in our favorite's category for the web-browser for each of our players. Then, we had them come in during their home rooms to fill out the various internet forms which colleges now have for prospective players. After that, we also had them create folders in their high school computer space where they then fired off any other information that they wanted these various coaches to have. Next, we made sure that each kid had the email address of the various coaches saved and so, when an article was written about them in the local paper, we had them send out an email. Finally, we also have editing programs such as RVP where the coach can make a video of your son. If the perspective coach also has RVP, then they can email the video to them. I don't recommend that unless the coach asked for it but rather we developed an edited DVD for our players. The coach needs to have access to the player's ACT scores etc. and so you, as a parent, must sign a release which will enable the guidance department to release that information to the coach. The coach will be called and asked questions about the player's abilities and grades. I disagree with Dolphin Mom on coaches making phone contacts. I know that both Coach Brownlee and Coach Callahan read this site and so, they could verify that I've talked to both of them at various times about players. High School Coaches should be able to be a substantial resource for you.

My son's coach will fill out questionaires when asked. He would make phone calls if asked. As for the networking, I cannot speak to that.

My only wish would be that high school summer ball NOT get in the way of travel ball/exposure activities (especially in their junior summer.) As has been mentioned often on this site, it is a rare event to see a college coach come see a high school summer league game.

I don't expect the coach(s) to get me a "deal." But on the other hand, I don't like it when they get in our way either & label us as "Benedict Arnolds." Nuff said.

As for preparing my kid for the next level, in the famous words of Roger Clemons - "It never happened."
That is not meant as a complaint either. There is no way you are going to prepare a kid in high school to face professional hitters, or college guys either. To some extent (me too) the parents of pitchers become obsessed with radar guns in high school. However, a well-placed 88-89 mph fastball is a better pitch than a 92 mph that ends up down the middle. I would guess that any kid who throws 92 mph in high school is NOT going to have his high school coach tell him to work on locating his fastball. The Minor Leagues are full of guys who throw 90 mph and never get past "A" ball.

My son was at the Tropicana Field showcase and I had the pleasure of speaking with both of the fathers whose son's threw 90 MPH. Interestingly enough, neither one of those kids has received an offer from any school. In fact, one of the kids has even't been contacted by any DI schools. While I do believe schools will find a lot of the top talent, it is ignorant to believe that kids don't get overlooked. These 2 kids are prime examples.

quote:

Harvard

How was the play to win camp

quote:

I would guess that any kid who throws 92 mph in high school is NOT going to have his high school coach tell him to work on locating his fastball.

I would say this is not an accurate statement. In the past you have directed particular jabs at your son(s) high school development. I am very familiar with the school in which they have and currently attend, there has been a lot of success.

I'll try to remember that when I write the next check for pitching lessons today.

quote:

Originally posted by Playball2:

quote:

I would guess that any kid who throws 92 mph in high school is NOT going to have his high school coach tell him to work on locating his fastball.

I would say this is not an accurate statement. In the past you have directed particular jabs at your son(s) high school development. I am very familiar with the school in which they have and currently attend, there has been a lot of success.

I don't know why it is hard to believe the statement regarding working on location. Most of the "work" I have seen our HS Coach do is 20/20 hindsight criticism. Good coaches have teams with lots of success, maximizing their talent. Other coaches may have success, but it is only when they have outstanding talent. Just because you win big every now and then doesn't mean a coach has done a good job of "working" with the players.

FB Dad,
All criticism is hindsight, NC42 save your money, email me and I have a slew of bullpen regimens for your son to work on spotting his fastball.

quote:

Originally posted by Playball2:
FB Dad,
All criticism is hindsight,

Yes Coach that is true, but when that is the extent of the work a coach does with a player there is a problem.

Don't you think a coach should be able to watch his team and see what they need to work on as individuals as well as a team and perhaps do a little coaching or teaching before there is an in game failure?

I'd agree that when a player or team is doing something wrong the coach does need to point it out in hindsight, but just as aften a coach says nothing until it costs a team a win. I've watched an awful lot of sloppy baseball but quite often, so long as the team wins nothing is said by the coaches.

Again Kudos to you for standing up for your fellow coaches, but also again....don't assume the approach of all coaches is remotely close to yours.

Playball 2-

Right now we are not working on "location." Little deeper than that. But I'll catch up with you when we get to that point.

My comment was not meant to jab anyone, it is just a general observation about kids I have seen over the years who throw hard.

This is just a hunch, but if Mike Bowden throws 3 centercut 92 mph fastballs to your #9 hitter, do you really think your hitter stands a chance? That scenario is going to play out different at higher levels. I've coached high school, if I have a guy throwing like that against a kid who stands little chance, I really do not care where the pitch is at - just don't walk the guy.

Yes, I've got issues, but when it walks like a duck & looks like a duck....I call it a duck.

FBD and NC42, I guess I can see both of your points, I am going on my 20th year of coaching at this level and I don't recall not ever having to coach kids. I have been fortunate to work with some talented players, but we have never been good enough to just go out and play.