Showcase feedback

quote:

Is this typical of what I can expect of feedback and would a college coach actually find this info useful?

PGStaff could give you a very good answer to this question but as a parent I can give you my .02 cents...and @ .02 it might be over priced. I think the type of information feedback is fairly typical. A lot depends on the reputation of the showcase as to how a college coach looks at this information unless something just really stood out. For the most part I don’t think this would be of much use if it were just mailed to a college coach. You also have to pick out the significant information from the “filler” information and rely more on the “hard” measurements like the 8.3 60 yd. dash or the 80 mph FB. I’m not very savvy when it comes to footspeed (I know my son doesn’t have it) but I know a “college potential” lateral movement of “5” and an 8.3 60 yard dash are miles apart. I think for a showcase to be effective college coaches need to be in attendance to SEE the player. That’s the whole concept of a showcase ----- that’s why they call them showcases.

I’m very surprised that the average fastball for pitchers (that feel they need to showcase) is only 75 mph. That indicates to me that there are pitchers that can't break 70 MPH thinking they can pitch at the college college level!!!!

The ones my son has received from individual colleges have been similar to that, but perhaps with not quite as many categories. One college supplemented its ratings with specific remarks on how to improve, which I thought was quite helpful.

The ratings can be quite subjective, depending on who is doing the evaluation. For example, my son attended the same college's showcase as both a sophomore and a junior. As a sophomore, he ran a 7.3 60 and he received a "3" rating (with 1 being below average and 5 being superior). As a junior, he ran a 7.16 60 and received only a "2." The reason for the difference? Perhaps it was because son was rated by an asst. college coach as a sophomore, but a pro scout as a junior.

Coach, everything in that report is pretty subjective, other than the 60 time and the pitching velocity. As a result, as Fungo says, unless coaches actually saw your son, or they are very familiar with the person/entity that provided this rating, and how knowledgeable and reliable the rater/showcase is about college baseball, it is hard to know how those types of more subjective type rankings would be viewed.
On the hard data, the report does not say whether the 60 was hand or electronic and nothing about weather, surface,etc. Those all affect the reliability. If hand timed, the actual would likely to be closer to an 8.5 as perceived by college coaches. In general, that 60 time doesn't translate too well for a college position player.
Just reading the information, if I were a college coach, I would read it as saying your son's upside is pitching.

Fungo -
I too was a little surprised at the low average fastball speed. In the kids' defense, it was about 40 degrees with a little breeze so it had to be hard to really air it out. There were a couple kids that topped out around 68. The fastest that I recall was 84.

There weren't many, if any, college coaches there. We will be attending the PG pitcher/catcher showcase on 12/29 in Connecticut. I'm hoping there will be actual coaches there.

Infielddad -
The 8.3 was hand timed. We expected that time to be pretty slow. Unfortunately, my son received my bad running genes. :-)
If my son does play in college, it will be as a pitcher. He loves playing the field but understands his limitations.

Thanks,
CV

CoachV,
JMO, if he wants to pitch, change the knuckleball to a change.

CoachV- understand the NCAA recruiting guidelines and rules coaches have to follow. The P/C showcase in CT won't have many coaches there, if any at all. It is a quiet period, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone

JH,
No D1 coaches allowed, I think!

Thanks for the heads-up about the quiet period. You can tell I'm still new at this.

PG seems to be a reputable showcase organization. Why do they (and others) run showcases during quiet periods other than to make money from folks like me that don't know better?

Thanks,
CV

Obviously PG makes some profit from the showcases they run, but I too have made the mistake of assuming they don't care about the kid's well-being in the past, and I've spoken many times with Jerry (PGStaff) about it.

There are several showcases during this time. One is the Indoor that you are talking about, another is the National Underclass in Ft. Myers. During the quiet period, no D-1 coaches are allowed to come into contact with a possible recruit/prospect (there are some oddball exceptions to that rule, however). PG is by far the most respected scouting and recruiting service in the baseball world. Their rankings and profiles are very respected by many college coaches and pro scouts. Going to these events, in most cases, is to get a ranking.

I have a friend who is an '08 (like myself). He pitched in the WWBA 16u tournament in July and came out and hit 91 mph. Suddenly his name was on the radar. He then attended the Northest Underclass Showcase. Another friend said there wasn't that much scout presence at this event, most likely because it was an underclass event. At this showcase, that same friend hit 88 mph and was ranked the #1 prospect at the entire showcase.

He recently told me he has been flooded with mail from schools who apparently looked at the PG site or spoke with people at PG and heard about his performance. These scouts had never seen him pitch before and never heard his name, but trust PG's ratings and judgment so much that they now consider him a prospect.

It is your discretion whether or not you believe that these showcase events are worth it. For my family and me, they are financially a stretch and we collectively decided to wait for next summer to hit up the "big" showcases. But the PG ranking can be very important for your son's baseball future, and it certainly helps open eyes.

Thanks JH

Great info. We still plan on attending the PG pitcher/catcher showcase. Hopefully, as you said, the exposure will be there even if the coaches aren't :-)
In any case, it is a good learning experience.

Thanks again,
CV

Here is the NCAA D-I Baseball Recruiting Calender

http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/membership_svcs/recruit...6-07/DI_Baseball.doc

Contact Period: Coaches can go off campus and make in-person, off-campus recruiting evaluations and contacts......

Dead Period: No off or on campus in-person contact. No official or unofficial visits.

Quiet Period: No off campus contact or evaluations. May have in-person contact on institution's campus.

Evaluation Period: May go off campus to evalutate only. No contact off campus

CoachV- PG events always are. I haven't been to a showcase myself, but I've been to several of their tournament events. The biggest, namely, was Jupiter two weeks ago, where about 800 scouts showed up.

It depends, also. A lot of times you can go to a showcase and do well and suddenly you're invited to the National Showcase. Or another huge showcase event. The PG ranking can be used many different ways, and most all to your own benefit. PM me if you'd like and I can tell you some more specifics and such.

And they are allowed 7 recruiting opportunities. No more than 3 may be off campus in-person contact.

example: no more than 3 contacts and 4 evaluations.

JH,

Your post is very much appreciated. I usually only talk about PG on here in defense of something. I wish everyone really knew the truth and that we want to be 100% honest. Perfect Game is not Perfect! But thank you for finding out the facts.


CoachVictory,

I do disagree slightly with “fungo’s” assessment, at least, regarding some of the events we do. Reason being, in our case, the bulk of the work done on behalf of the player is done after the event is over. And the player with no talent can have 1,000 college coaches watch him… for what?

We report to every DI program in the country and many other colleges as well. So if a player is talented… Every DI coach in America will know about him.

A pitcher from Northern Wisconsin, who had a great career at Clemson and then drafted last year, was found at an indoor showcase held in January. Clemson was not at that showcase and had never heard of this player.

The idea is to find talent, or in the player’s behalf, to have his talent found!

One question… Is it better to be seen by a handful of college coaches or is it better that nearly all of them know who you are, know how to contact you and put you on their follow list?

These things can and have happened hundreds of times, but the information has to come from a very credible source. We like to think we are as credible as they come. Anything less would have ruined us!

The past several National Underclass Showcases we’ve held are in early January. There are no DI coaches (except for service academies) in attendance. There are only, scouts, smaller colleges, top level summer coaches and agents, for the most part in attendance. There are people besides us, who come and report back to DI programs. Over the past few years, it is astounding how many of the top players in the country we saw for the first time at this event. First round draft picks, college all Americans, Aflac All Americans, top ranked prospects, etc. Also, we are always looking for the top players to invite to our national events and we’ve found many at this January event. When the national underclass is over, we get deluged with phone calls and emails from DI recruiters. Nearly every DI coach in America finds out what we think of the players in attendance. These things can be researched by looking at past rosters and checking the end results for the players. Does it work well for every player? Of course not! Does it work well for players with talent? Check the results! The naysayers might say… Those players would have been found sooner or later anyway” The naysayers might be correct… guess we’ll never know because they DID attend. However, I doubt any of those top players would ever say that the event didn’t help them.

While checking player info from these events… ask yourself… If I’m checking this stuff… Why wouldn’t college recruiters, who should be the very most interested in the information, be checking it? If you made your living as a DI recruiter would you avoid this information about talented prospects? It all has to start somewhere… MLB Scouting Directors rely on reports from their area scouts and crosscheckers. If the reports are good enough they then go see the player. College coaches can’t be everywhere… they have to use reliable information from people they trust to help them sort things out. Because our entire scouting staff operates much like a MLB scouting department (only bigger) we are trusted. And most every scout we have is a former college coach, MLB scout or professional player. We are trusted. In fact, we often lose our younger scouts to MLB organizations who believe our people received some of the best training possible. And we also get resumes from MLB scouts who want to go to work for us.

There are always the college camps, many of which are very good, that a player can attend. But giving an example… Will Clemson provide information to the U of South Carolina (or vise versa) about a player who stood out at their camp? Will LSU send info to Tulane? Georgia Tech to Georgia, Miami to Florida State, Arizona State to Arizona? At our events the players are reported to everyone. Again, this means very little unless the college recruiters see and value the information. In our case… They not only see the information, but they search for more. It’s just the way things are!

Please don’t think we just want to take money from those who don’t know what they’re doing. I’d prefer people pay because they DO know what they’re doing! If we did nothing during the dead period we would have missed a lot of outstanding players. Obviously we are a business and need to bring in money, but our major business revolves around scouting and scouting more players than anyone else. We can’t afford to take time off from scouting (it’s our business).

We are among the easiest there is to research.

PGStaff- I only know because I've been in the position on the other side .

I think the reasoning that I have right now is to just remember that "it only takes once". For example, the friend that I referred to in the above post (watch out for him, he's sure a good one), I think is pretty much set already. Perhaps he comes to East Cobb next year, or the National and performs well again and he probably won't even need to pay a penny for college. It only takes one person who likes you to see you.

CoachV- there are plenty of knowledgable people on this website that can help you with what you need. PGStaff is certainly the cream of the crop in terms of knowing info about PG (after all, it is his organization), but there are many others. TRHit's organization has first hand knowledge of many of the showcase events that are being run. CoachMay, jerseydad and Midlo Dad all have sons that are considered some of the best in the nation for the 2008 class. There are several posters who are either in the pros or have sons who are.

The main thing I can say is to be smart with what events you decide to attend. Another friend of mine was being recruited heavily by a Big 12 school, but went to another PG showcase and didn't perform as well and the school did not further pursue him. He did sign a NLI to a D-1 school, but who knows what he could have done had he not performed badly at the one "extra" showcase. PG is a very good organization and one you can trust will get you the appropriate exposure for your son. But there are plenty that cannot say they do the same thing. Baseball, even at the amateur level, is a business, and discerning between people doing it "just for the money" and people doing it because they want to is not an easy thing to do.

Thanks all.

Great info.

PG - Please don't think I was trying to disparage Perfect Game. EVREYTHING I have seen and heard about PG has been great. I was just surprised about the quiet period. I will take the time to checkout the links that others provided regarding recruiting periods. Son and I are looking forward to the pitcher/catcher showcase.

Thanks again,
CV