Showcases and Club Ball

MMahonia11,

A little background info would be good to help answer your question.

What is your goal?  Of the programs that interest you, what is the makeup of their roster?  Do they recruit nationally, regionally or locally?  For what reasons do you think they recruit nationally, regionally or locally? 

You should be doing everything you can to be seen by the schools you are interested in and the ones that have shown sincere interest in you.

Play for the best travel team in your area and get to the major showcases. Let coaches know when, who and where you will be playing.

Remember, college camps are for profit, not always for talent. If a coach asks you to attend, you need to be assured that you are being potentially recruited.

My 2013 was asked to attend a lot of camps, but those were mostly for the revenue. You will know if they are recruiting you or just looking for your money.

The summer after my 2013's junior year was seen by RC's at several showcases, they asked him if he could attend their camp. Most only wanted him for the day so the other coaching staff could see him. He was lucky, and found the right fit after several visits to schools that liked him. Did his OV first week in September, committed a week later and signed in November.

Good luck! Work hard to be seen!

@Fenway South. I am a 2015 MIF with high academics looking to attend an ivy league school.

Create a list of target schools based on your ability. Target showcases that get you in front of those schools. Get on a travel team where the focus is on participating in showcases that fit your needs and ability and get you in front of schools on your list. Also look for individual showcases that fit your needs. 

McMahoniac11,

Ivy League schools recruit nationally, so it is best to attend a national academic showcases such as the Stanford camp (going on right now), HeadFirst or PG Academic to name a few that are top of mind.  You can google them to get logisitics, pricing and general info.   The schools also host or combine camps with other schools in their areas.   You may want to reach out (now) to the specific school's recruiting coach to see where the coaches will be this summer.   Most importantly, you need to understand how Ivy recruiting works.   It is much more than just baseball.

You may or may not want to play on a competitive travel team depending on if they play in front of the colleges that you are targeting.   My son played on a national level travel team that did not play in front of the schools he was most interested in (academic focused).   It was a great experience and the baseball was exceptional, but we probably could have done just as well on our own not playing national travel ball.  We eventually found our way back to what he was most interested in.

If you are interested, please feel free to send me a PM or Dialog if you want to discuss details offline.  I'm extremely familiar with ivy baseball recruiting.  My son is a rising senior in that conference. 

Good luck!

FWIW - Our experience EXACTLY mimics Fenway.  For the high academic ballplayer focusing on Ivy and best academic D3, concentrate on the academic showcases and camps - but make a budget.  The National travel ball my son played as a rising senior consumed too much time and budget for what he was after.  However, if your goal is just a little lower on the academic scale, say Patriot League or Service Academy, then the tournament circuit is probably best.  The problem is understanding where you fit on the scale. There are no easy answers.  For instance my son didn't realize how high his academics reached until the summer was over because the highest academic schools really pick up the pace of recruiting in August. Suddenly the phone was ringing off the hook but it was too late to change the schedule. 

Can you reveal what high school grad year your son was?  My experience is that the Ivies are mostly done by August.

EDIT: I know the Likely Letters go out in the October time frame, and recruits can slip, but I still believe the current prevailing practice (not the exception) is that the Ivies have their commitments by August

Green Light,

'My two cents.....We went through Ivy recruiting 4 years ago.  My son was not initially targeting Ivys but was recruited (at first) by D1 mid majors through his national travel team.  He was offered by these D1 mid-majors in mid July.   We were late to the Ivy process (late July  through Sept), but there were many Ivy programs that had slots available at that time.  Has this changed in four years?  I doubt it.  Based on conversations I've had here and through others I think the initial time frame to get some initial Ivy commitments has definitely moved up, but I think a lot of coaches leave some ED-only slots open for D1 and D1 mid-major talent that decide the ivy path is for them.  

Remember, any Ivy coach wants the best talent they can get through Admissions.  They could care less when the recruit commits.  If I was an Ivy coach, I would try to get the best talent that will commit to me early and then try to find further strong D1 talent that has the grades and board scores that has decided to pursue Ivys rather than a traditional D1 with some exceptions (ie...Stanford).  My sons Ivy typically has 5 Likely Letter slots.  The coach isn't going to care if you were a Likely Letter recipient or an Early Decision recruit when Fall rolls around to try to win a position.  I could argue that sometimes the coach may get stronger players through ED only (non LL) because those recruits had more baseball options.

With that said, I would advise someone who knows they are most interested in ivy recruiting to be in the first group of recruits (Likely Letter has less risk with oct 1 date) rather than the last group (Early Decision or Early Action only Nov 1 date).

I hope that makes sense.

Interesting, as always, Fenway.

I had been going on the understanding that each Ivy had 7-8 "slots" at the admissions office each year. These slots would be for players who met the minimum Academic Index requirements, but who would not be locks to be admitted (I guess nobody is) if they weren't ballplayers.

I see in your post that you talk about Likely Letter slots and Early Decision slots. Not sure I understand the difference. Are you saying the ED slots are for players that have top academic stats? Is the coach giving any help at the admissions office with ED slots, or just predicting that the player would probably get through on his academics solely?

Thanks as always

Again - our son's experience mimics Fenway.  First call from Ivy #1 came third week of July after Ivy camp.  First call from Ivy #2 came mid-August after HeadFirst.  Some discussion about Likely Letter v ED, interviews, support, etc.  Very high SATs - ED was going to be the play.  Serious injury had to be dealt with.  Should son PG a year because injury was now a question?  High academic D3's come into the picture mid August.  They don't care about injury.  Offer D3 version of official visits.  Son goes on 5 official visits.  This is getting crazy.  Ivy's on the fence about injury but they are confident the application will go through.  Son doesn't want to PG.  Son loves D3 schools after officials.  Baseball players are more intertwined with campus life than in D1.  Kids have summer internships in Washington and NY (He is currently working in the Senate).  That last week before the Nov 1 deadline it got pretty crazy.  On the night before the deadline he decided to commit to the D3.  He is very glad he took the D3 route.

Green Light,

I'll try to clarify.....There are four ways that I know of to find yourself on an Ivy baseball field.  First, is a Likely Letter (LL) from Admissions (through the Coach) pretty much guaranteeing your acceptance as a recruited athlete unless you commit a serious crime or let your grades go to sh*t..  These are the LL slots I mentioned previously, and LL recruits will need to apply ED or EA.  It is a quid pro quo between the recruit and the coach.  He agrees to sponsor the recruit through Admissions, and you commit to going to school by applying (binding) ED.  I've seen about 5 LL slots available for baseball each year at my sons school, but I understand the number can change.   The second is through Early Decision (without LL) which there are no guarantees only the guidance of the coach, and hopeful eventual acceptance by Admissions.  In both the LL and ED-only recruits case, there is always a pre-read by Admission to give the coach & recruit some feedback on the recruits ability to get in before the recruit commits.  While Admissions is doing a pre-read, I would strongly urge anyone to talk to the Financial Aid office about financial need.   LLs have less risk, and ED-only recruits have more risk.  LLs can go out as early as Oct 1, but I've seen situations where folks haven't received them until late Nov.  ED-only is a Nov 1 application deadline with notification in early to mid-December.  It is very nerve wracking waiting for final acceptance.  I did not miss a Friday happy hour for a few months while waiting for my son's acceptance. 

Both of these recruiting methods (above) come with "recruited athlete status" by the coach with Admissions making the final decision.   Clear as mud, yet?  The third way is as a traditional walk-on, and lastly as a recruited athlete transfer from another sport at the school.  I know in my son's case we've had a few football players walk-on to baseball with varying degrees of success.

The strategy by the Ivy coach is going to vary depending on the recruit competitive situation, timing, and his needs.  ivy coaches don't always get the recruit they want most for a lot of reasons.

Does that answer your question?  If not, feel free to send me a PM or Dialog.

Thanks a lot, Fenway. Very helpful. And thanks for the invite to send a PM, but maybe other folks would be interested in your experience too, so I will keep it here.

I think my final question is, what restricts the coach from recommending that a bunch of kids apply for ED/EA? Seems he has nothing to lose...subject to the upper limit of players that can fit on the field at the first workout. If the ED/EA kid gets accepted, he gets a chance to compete for playing time. If he doesn't, no sweat off the coach's brow because he never promised anything. Do I have it right?

Two things.   He is limited by the number of recruits he can bring in every year by the budget, roster limit, or the number of "tips" and "slots" he's given by Admissions.  Those numbers are fixed every year.  Think of "tips" as ED recruits and "slots" as LL recruits.   The recruit numbers can vary every year, and this is very similar to D3 recruiting except it is applied to a D1 program, and they issue Likely Letters. 

 Experienced coaches know when a kid is an academic slam dunk or marginal.  If the coach continually brings forward recruits that are not admissible, he is going to strain that relationship with the AdComm, and that would not be in his best interest.  The coach is the gatekeeper & recommender but AdComm has final say of "yes" or "no".    Also, if the coach continually makes promises to kids he will suffer from a bad reputation.  I've heard of this happening many times over in some other sports but not baseball. 

Different strategies can be used depending on the recruit.  I think in my son's case, he was late to his school's recruiting process, and the Coach knew my son had the academic credentials to get in ED with his "tip" to Admissions.  The pre-read was "likely to be accepted" so both the Coach and my son knew the likely outcome..  The coach either had used his LLs up, or was saving them for another recruit(s).   It didn't matter to us either way.  We had several contingency plans including another Ivy.  Certainly, there are other strategies that can be employed by the coach to get a recruit in depending on a situation.

Once admitted, there is no difference in how you got there (LL or ED) and how you win playing time.   The coach is going to put the best lineup on the field without any regard to how you got there.

Great stuff. Thanks a lot!

leftySS,

You've done an excellent job of painting that academic decision tree (in one paragraph) for these ballplayers. We dealt with similar drama minus the injury/PG year.  Let's face it, this is pretty heady stuff for a high school junior or senior to be dealing with.

Green Light,

It just occurred to me that I need to clarify something further.   Your statement above needs some context, and I may have led you astray.   Not only does each recruit have to meet the AI minimum but the whole recruited team and class has to be within a range.   So, there is going to be a distribution of recruits with minimum AIs, down the middle AIs, and high AIs.   For example, an Ivy coach can't load up on 8 recruited minimum AI baseball players.  This is why he has to strategize on how he is going to get the recruits he wants and needs, both academically and athletically.   Ivy coaches love kids who throw 95mph and score 240 on their AI.  It gives them options.  Is that better?

Here is document that illustrates my point failry well, although it a little outdated. 

http://www.mka.org/uploaded/co...elines_Worksheet.pdf

Thanks again, Fenway. I think I got it, and I found that attachment you included to be very interesting!

So, bottom line, I'm thinking that all things on the field being equal, the high AI kid will get tipped to ED and the lower AI kid will get routed through a Likely Letter slot..........all things on the field being equal

That is one scenario, and that is probably how I'd play it (as a coach) with all things being equal on the field.   There are so many factors that come into play with these things.   The more I learn about it and read about it, the more I admire the system they've put in place.   The bottom line is you have to be a very good baseball player and an exceptional student to play in the conference. 

I can think of other scenarios.  Another scenario is the coach knows a kid is being highly recruited by another Ivy, D1, or is likely to be drafted.  The coach really wants & needs a specific player.   The coach can request AdComm send the recruit a LL to compete with the D1 NLI or lure him away from the MLB draft.   There are all kinds of situations, but the Coach has to play his LLs as a get out jail free card and only use them when he needs them.  

I've read of Ivy recruiting situations where a particular Ivy would support an athlete with an ED tip and another Ivy offered the same athlete a LL slot.  The recruit went with the LL.  It was perceived by the recruit the LL school valued him/her more.   Whether or not it was the better situation athletically or academically, I don't know.  Each situation is unique.