Shy (but talented) kid didn't make 8th grade cut

Welcome to HSBW!!

Some of the more experienced folks will chime in here I am sure, but I think what you are getting at is your son does not have the "makeup" your coaches are looking for.

My son has a teammate in the same position. Good, solid player but he gets placed on teams below his ability because of his personality. Simply he does not stand out in any way. You have to see him play games over a period of time to appreciate his ability. Not a great thing when you have a two or three day tryout to impress.

You speak of his not having his "swagger" yet. I think this is something that is his personality and is not likely something that will change radically as he gets older. You either have it or you don't.

It sounds clearly that he is willing to do the work and wants to continue to work at it. I would caution that at my son's school the word is once you are cut you have a very difficult time getting back on the radar. Curious what others would think about that but if me I might be looking at other options for HS if that is plausible in any way.

quote:

Here's the catch, as talented as he is, we believe that our son's demeanor is holding him back & keeping him from being recognized, he's extremely quiet/shy - we say he doesn't have "swagger" yet. If he had the swagger (or cockiness) some of the other kids have, he'd be blowing by them right now. But what he does have is natural athletic ability and a great head on his shoulders and a great work ethic, and even though he's quiet he does have confidence in his ability.

First - welcome to the hsbbweb!

My take is to encourage your son to be himself and try as hard as he can and then let the chips fall where they may. I don't believe telling someone to act like someone they are not. Everyone brings something unique to the game and your son's may be steely determinedness hidden behind a quiet personality. I like kids who try hard and don't necessarily talk a lot and/or show attitude. Talk is cheap.

Encourage your son to keep improving his game. Keep doing that until they can no longer tell him no and keep trying until he can no longer find someone who might tell him yes. Neither he nor you can control a coach's decision by worrying about it, stewing about it, or changing a personality to compensate for it. All he can do is control his attitude and effort. Keep trying harder than every other kid out there and good things will eventually happen for him.

Welcome. That was nice post and I'm sure the family is a little "bummed" right now.

But all hope shouldn't be lost. Trust me when I say a whole lot of stuff can and does happen to baseball players from that 7th/8th grade level you are at now, compared to when they hit 10th or 11th grade and at their peak High School Varsity playing ages!

Many, like your son now, will show up for tryouts as Freshman or Sophomores and the Coaching Staff will look at those kids and say "where has he been or where did that kid come from?"

Tell your son not to despair but use these temporary set backs as motivators that push him in his skill, speed and strength development. He should continue to play baseball wherever and however he can. If he is somewhat athletically inclined, as you say, he has plenty of time to blossom! When he blossoms, the Coaching Staff will recognize it and he will get his shot.

My son had a swagger problem. It cost him the starting job on varsity as a sophomore. He wanted to be everybody's friend, and was tentative in how he played sometimes. I had a talk to him about, and appealed to his ego. I should add I'm the mom, and he does not have a strong father figure in his life.

I also spoke to a man my son respects, and he had a talk with him. He told him to quit being the nice kid and go get that starting job.

My son "manned up" and started to work harder and play with confidence. He won the starting job in his position before the season was over. This began a transformation in my son which is still underway.

There are all types of swagger. Quiet kids can have it - I disagree that it is a question of personality. It is a matter of believing in yourself, and projecting that belief on the field. Alpha males come with all kinds of personalities, and some of the strongest, most confident men I know have been on the quieter side. It starts on the inside.

There are many success stories of kids who come into their own later. Your son has plenty of time.
He needs to work so hard that the coach has no choice next year, and bring his confidence with him.

Good luck.

See I told you, you would get better advice than what I would give.

As a caveat our high school situation may be a little unique in that even though we feed into a large high school it is fed by just one middle school. Right or wrong the high school coaches are involved from 7th grade on.

Let's go back to him not making the 8th grade team. He's 6'2" and pitches and he didn't make the team? Is the coach blind?

little11,
My son has always been notoriously quiet. But to find out why he was cut, just ask the coach himself. I know many posters on here feel that the kid should do the talking in high school but he is only 13. Also remember there is a big difference between saying, 'Why did you cut my son" and "What can he do to better his chances next year."

My son was invited to a camp at one of the powerhouse DII's. After the camp the coach wanted to talk to us in his office. Taking the advice of the posters on this board, I sat back and let my son speak for himself. I was very impressed on how he handled himself. He even asked the right questions of the coach to recommend a juco program just in case this situation did not work. Well the juco called that Monday scheduled a tryout for Wednesday and now my son is on a scholarship at that juco. Hard work, hustle, and enthusiasm is the key. Not what you say, but what you do. "Swag" can sometimes be a negative
Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by ctandc:
Let's go back to him not making the 8th grade team. He's 6'2" and pitches and he didn't make the team? Is the coach blind?

I agree. If I had a 6'2" thirteen year old I would roster him and develop his emotional side. Tom Lasorda named a passive pitcher Bulldog to convince him to believe in himself. Orel Hershiser went on to have a reasonable career.

Why is the baseball team picked in early fall? So much can happen physically and developmently in the next four, five months. Is this just a fall ball team? If so, do what it takes to be prepared for the spring.

I'm not sure getting cut from the middle school team is a bad thing. I suspect the talent, competition and coaching is a little sub-par compared to select ball options. If he takes the same time he would have invested in middle school ball and puts it into select ball instead, I'll betcha he'll be better off and more prepared for HS!

Relax dad, he will be fine. Many people think that just because a kid is tall for their age that they will perform better because of their size. The reality is that tall kids tend to develop later. Keep him playing on other teams, get good instruction, and get him in the gym with workout routines that will help his athleticism. Once he hits puberty look out. Good luck.

Welcome to the Board!!

I agree with what others have said here, especially that your son is 6'2" and a pitcher and he didn't make the team. Not sure about that decision.

I agree that you can't change a kid's personality. No sense in trying. However, if his shy personality is reflected in his hustle and agressiveness on the field, that is something that needs to change. Make sure he hustles on and off the field. Make sure he goes all out on every play. Make sure he is agressive on the mound or at his position. None of this has to do with his personality. He doesn't need to walk around talking trash or have his hat on crooked to have "swag". He does not need to be the vocal leader in the dugout to get on the field and be confident of his ability, hustle and be agressive.

He may be a little uncomfortable running to and from his position or doing some of the other things, but that is something he will need to push through. Confidence and agressiveness are something that can be worked on.

My son tried out for varsity when he was a freshman. He was a pretty shy kid, especially around all the older kids. He was kind of off to himself, didn't say a lot, didn't walk around with an attitude. But, when he got on the mound, you could see the confidence in how he pitched. He pounded the strike zone. He attacked hitters. You could see on his face that he was serious and confident about what he was doing. If someone got a hit off him, he got the ball and went back to work. Didn't get upset, didn't show that the situation affected him at all. After the inning, he jogged back to the dugout, sat down by himself and waited to go out again.

His confidence and attitude when he took the field spoke for itself. I hope this makes sense. Attitude and confidence on the field is WAY different than personality. Personality shouldn't matter. It is all about what you do on the field and how confident you are with your abilities.

My advice would be to have your son go in and talk with the coach and find out why he didn't make the team. No sense trying to guess the reasons. It probably would do him some good regarding his shyness talking with the coach as well. Have him ask the coach to give him an honest evaluation of his abilities, both pro and con, and have him thank the coach after for his honest evaluation. I think he might actually find the experience a positive one. (You might have noticed that I suggested that he does this all himself.)

What you dont want to do inject victimhood into the situation. You will hear common reactions by some to being rejected; ie "its all politics", "coach didnt like me", "coach was stupid, etc". Help your son remain positive about his dreams but also help him face current reality by having an honest talk with the coach.

Baseball does not exist in a vaccum. People make subjective opinions about all kind of things that have nothing to do with what they are evaluating. If he truly loves the game as I'm sure he does he will need to understand that he needs to work on the whole package if he hopes to move on.

Professional scouts will tell you that they watch a player from the moment he walks off the bus before a game until he walks back on the bus after the game. What they are saying is the subjective stuff counts.

I have a son that loves musical theatre. We have done more tryouts in more locations that you can imagine. One thing he has learned through this experience is that when its your turn the stage is no place for wallflowers. Give it your best, learn from it and move on.

Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by twotex:

There are all types of swagger. Quiet kids can have it - I disagree that it is a question of personality. It is a matter of believing in yourself, and projecting that belief on the field. Alpha males come with all kinds of personalities, and some of the strongest, most confident men I know have been on the quieter side. It starts on the inside.

There are many success stories of kids who come into their own later. Your son has plenty of time.
He needs to work so hard that the coach has no choice next year, and bring his confidence with him.

Good luck.

little1treasures MOM...I have to agree with the above from twotex(MOM), excellent advice! I had assumed that my son was lacking "swagger" at times when he was younger (11-14 years old) due to his shyness. He's still relatively shy, but he's come a long way and is currently a freshman playing college baseball. He is never going to be that demonstrative verbal leader, but as twotex suggested, I see his swagger, as he BELIEVES in himself and projects that belief on the baseball field.

Your son is a big boy, and as others have stated, he's more than likely still growing into his body. Keep his spirits up and remind him that it's still very early. If he wants it, have him continue working hard and good things will happen.

Good luck to him, keep us posted on his progress, and Welcome to the HSBBWeb!

I thought little1treasures was a mom too unless this was a modern family episode...

I'm not really understanding a couple of things:

1. Who has baseball (I'm assuming school ball since you mentioned his grade level) try outs in the Fall?

It was mentioned already. If this is Fall Ball it seems a bit late for that. If this is school ball, there's A LOT of growing done over the Fall / Winter break before typical school baseball programs start tryouts in the early Spring.

2. What does being shy having to do with anything when it comes to trying out for a team at this age level?

I can see personality and demeanor coming into play IF your size and ability doesn't make you stand out. But a 6'2" kid on a 8th grade squad? If he's coordinated enough not to trip when walking on the field and he actually has a pitching motion, seems like he'd be on the team.

On my son's JV team last year the Coach kept a 6'3" 9th grader just to work with him on pitching.

few coaches let a youngun that size escape their attention. Something is not adding up here.

Wow, this is an awesome site! Thanks for all of the great advice.

First, no Modern Family here - LOL! I am MOM!

Just to let you know, last year the Middle School team had 2 tryouts, one in the fall & if you made the first cut, you'd tryout again in Jan. This year, the coach had 1 tryout and announced the roster. Not sure why he wanted to finalize it so quickly.

I would like to talk to the coach to find out why my son didn't make the team - but from what I've read, seems like maybe my son should talk to him instead. Either way, we need to find out because we are unsure and would like to know what needs to be worked on.

We do have a competitive program that feeds into 1 High School, so that's why I'm concerned about my son's future possibilities. We have considered private school or even the possibility of moving. We've also considered getting some different eyes on him (from out of our local area) - I'm sure there are plenty of teams that would love to have him. He is good - he's still growing, so he may have a couple of more years to completely figure out his body, but his potential is great!

I'm sure he'll continue to work hard and his story will change :-) I've told him that all of the greats have their stories, nothing comes easy!! Whether baseball is his sport or he excels in something else, these challenges along the way build character.

Thanks again for all the advice! Love this site!

Hello little1treasures,

My son had similar issues. He is also very shy. He would freeze whenever he was put into a situation where he would have to make small talk, or sometimes even if he was asked a specific question. Whenever he knew he would have to be talking to coaches, we would "rehearse" things he could say - I would ask him questions, and he would have time to think of answers.

In addition to talking to the coach about why he was cut, maybe he could ask to be team manager, or help with the field work. It would give him more one-on-one time with the coach, who might begin to see what kind of young man he really is. Your son may feel less shy talking to him in informal situations.

After your son talks with the coach, you may want to consider having him ask the people who are giving him pitching and hitting lessons the same questions. If you get the same answers, then he will know where he needs to work. If the answers are dramatically different, then something else is up.

Tell your son to keep his head up and keep working hard. The payoff will be that much sweeter.

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:
Relax dad, he will be fine.

I am pretty sure it's the players mom.

I am not not sure I really buy into all of this, but sometimes moms have a harder time understanding how it all works when they are young.

FWIW, when son was in 7th, 8th grade he had to resort to soft ball, and then played local travel in baseball season. He had no swagger back then too. In no way did it hurt his development or his game.

No one knows what potential someone has at that age, the way I see it if he did have it he would be playing.

Just think about this, someday when he is playing big time college ball or a pro, you can look back and chuckle about it!

It is very hard for me to believe a coach is going to cut a kid because he is shy or quiet if he his talented enough to help his team. Now if this coach did indeed cut a your son because he is shy and over looked his ability to play that speaks to the coach just being a clown.

A kid with that size at that age is going to catch the coaches eye. He is going to make sure he takes a good look at him. Look I coached a kid in high school who I gave the nickname Gab to. The reason he got the nickname was because he was so quiet and never said anything. He was a stud and just pitched the Rangers into the next round of the playoffs. As a sr he would go out and dominate with no swagger. He would K 15 and throw a one hitter and never show any emotion. He was just very good.

I would encourage your son not to worry about swagger or being shy. I would encourage him to continue to work very hard at the game to the point where his talent was so obvious that no one would over look it. Swagger is over rated. Hype is over rated. True talent and ability never is. Good luck

I'm wondering if we have different interpretation of the term "swagger". When I use the word I mean having confidence in yourself. People who have confidence in themselves tend to inspire others to have confidence in them. This isn't limited to the playing field, it is everywhere.

If you don't have confidence in yourself it is asking a lot of others to have confidence in you. Yes, there are coaches who can see past a lack of confidence and pull out the best in a player, but there are also coaches who won't bother.

Confidence is only important if it translates to performance. I have confidence in players who show they can perform. I have no confidence in players who can not show that they can perform no matter how much confidence they have. Usually the ones that have confidence have it because they can perform.

If were talking about a tryout here am I going to keep a kid that is confident and has swagger but shows me none of the ability I am looking for in a player? Or am I going to keep the kid who does show me ability and potential even if he is shy?

I'm coming to this thread a little late and I scanned over the posts already made so please forgive me if I hit on something that's already been said. I will say I did read Coach May's posts because I read everything he puts because it's a guarantee to learn something.

Overall I agree with him in that if your son has some talent and is that big that in itself will make an impression with the coaches. If they are looking for "swagger" (seriously what is that?) then they probably are a bunch of clowns. A real coach will NEVER cut a kid because they are shy or what not but they will cut a kid if he can't produce. Honestly, we have no idea how good your son is because we have never seen him so we have no idea if he has the talent. We don't know the coaches to know if they are clowns or not. So really we're just best guessing by taking you at face value.

How big is your school at the middle school and the high school? If it's a huge school with thousands of kids then it's going to be very tough to make the team just due to the vast number of players. How many were at tryouts? How many are physically similar to your son?

Confidence is a huge thing but it is different than cockiness. There is an old saying I've heard a lot of when determining if a player has "it" - he's got some s**t in his blood. Meaning that kid believes he has "it" and is willing to prove he has "it" and will beat you to show he has "it". When that guy has that **** in his blood he's obviously confident but he also may be cocky with it. Don't get mislead into thinking the ESPN Sportscenter jacka$$ highlight reel is how a player should act. A player should be himself and that might include being cocky but the thing he has to have is that **** in his blood to want to fight.

My advice is find someone who can give you an honest and independent opinion of his talent level. It's nice to have a person you pay to make your son better but their purpose is to make money. Therefore there's a chance they are telling you what you want to hear so you keep coming back. If you're going to keep with private lessons then make sure it's from someone who will give you an honest assesment of his ability. Once you get that asessment of his talent then now you can focus on making the weak areas into strong areas and the strong areas into stronger areas.

Stay the course, relax and enjoy the ride because it will be over sooner than you realize.

quote:

Originally posted by twotex:
I'm wondering if we have different interpretation of the term "swagger". When I use the word I mean having confidence in yourself. People who have confidence in themselves tend to inspire others to have confidence in them. This isn't limited to the playing field, it is everywhere.

If you don't have confidence in yourself it is asking a lot of others to have confidence in you. Yes, there are coaches who can see past a lack of confidence and pull out the best in a player, but there are also coaches who won't bother.

twotex,

I understood what you were stating, and agreed with your original post. Perhaps some people have a different interpretation of swagger? I wouldn't call it cocky. IMO, it's simply confidence...and yes, it can be quiet confidence as well. One of my favorite movies is HOOSIERS. For those that have seen the movie, you remember in the beginning, the school's best basketball player (Jimmy) was not playing. He was a quiet kid that was more interested in his studies than playing ball for his HS team. Once he took note of the team concept that the new coach (played by Gene Hackman) had implemented, he was interested in joining the squad. Yes indeed, he was quiet, and didn't talk much on or off the court, but led by example...he had "Swagger", a quiet confidence about him, and he was Very Good...yet, he wasn't cocky.

I agree with Coach May. If the young man has talent, his shyness shouldn't come into play at all. And if it is, then the coach has a problem. I have a feeling that there may be more to the story? Hopefully the original poster will have her son approach the coach and seek advice as to what he needs to work on to improve for the near future.

Thanks for the compliment Coach to tell you the truth I feel the same way about your posts. I understand where twotex is coming from. The fact is the best players have a swagger about them and it shows in different ways. But the one thing they all have is the ability to produce and play the game at a high level. Some have that Joey Chitwood confidence. Quiet and cool and very humble. But deadly on the field of play. Some are a little louder in the way they handle themselves and act. But the bottom line is its very hard to have any level of confidence if you can not play.

When your talking about young kids the age the op is talking about many times they have no idea how good they are. They have no idea what their potential is. They may lack confidence or they may be shy and all they need is to be coached and put in the right situations to see it blossom. To cut a kid before he has had that opportunity simply because he is shy or lacks confidence is, well for lack of better words - stupid. A good coach can see potential and a certain level of current ability. He does not see the current package as the final package. He sees what a kid can become not what he currently is. There is more to this story no doubt.

I'm wondering if the mentioned "shyness" translates to a case of baseball "Stage fright" (For lack of a better term) in tryout situations?

I still can't get past a middle school coach not giving a 6'2 8th grader who pitches more than just a passing glance.

My son was basically told after his eighth grade year that he would never make his high school baseball team. At this point, he was 5'8" and overweight although, he knew how to throw strikes. He was cut his freshman year. Instead of letting him be devastated it motivated him to do what he needed to do...Reinvent himself. He played on a Senior League team where he was their star pitcher and joined a travel team. He also started taking pitching lessons. That summer he grew 3 inches, lost 10 pounds, and his confidence grew. He ended up playing fall ball is sophomore year (not coached by HS) and didn't even get to pitch. He kept playing travel ball where the coach showed confidence in him and had him pitching regularly. He continued to lose weight and grow. He finally made the JV team in the spring and was the number one pitcher.

Fast forward three years. My son is now 6'5" tall. He was named to the second team for the Florida's Collegiate Summmer League's Futures Division and he is playing college ball.

Moral of the story. Believe in yourself, work hard and don't let anyone tell you "you'll never make it."

I love that story LauraZA.

I'll try to complete the "more to the story". There are several different factors that I think contributed to my son not making the team, I've had some time to think about this.

There are currently 3 other good pitchers that made the team last year. Two of them happen to be 5'11" & 6' 1". Both are strong and have the "swagger" that I feel my son is lacking. I guess that's where I came up with that notion - they appear more outgoing/confident than my son even though my son is equally talented (if not more) and has a quiet confidence. The 3rd pitcher is a lefty & a good hitter - can't compete with that. All 3 pitchers also play first base, same as my son.

These coaches don't know my son, haven't watched him play ball so they based their decision on what they saw in a couple of days - that's why I think my son's demeanor came into play. If they were able to watch him play in a game, they'd see he is full of talent & potential. We've had other coaches during the travel ball season come up to us & ask him to play for them. So I know even though I'm mom, he's got what it takes. He's also recently been asked to play on a travel team with 9th graders. His pitching/hitting coach is stunned he didn't make the team.

One other area of concern we have is that during the tryouts, when it was our sons rotation to pitch to live batters, the coaches weren't watching. They stood behind the backstop and were looking down at a book. In our minds, they had already decided the team and weren't even considering our kid.

My son has decided to talk to the coach, so hopefully he'll get some honest feedback. He's well on his way, I have a feeling he's got a bright future ahead of him.

Thanks again for all the feedback! Great site!

LauraZA, that is the moral of the story. When in doubt, go back to work and keep plugging. It doesn't always mean that everything is going to work out perfectly, but that attitude can go a long way toward making any situation better. The easiest thing to do is pout and mope and make excuses, but the kids who truly have the desire and work ethic can overcome tough situations. That was a great story for the OP to hear.

This is news to me that middle school teams have fall tryouts and winter workouts. Never heard of it around here.

Introduce him to Zack Greinke.

By that I mean, have him learn about what he had to overcome to pitch at the highest level.

Swagger, confidence and ability are often confussed.

Moral of the story. Believe in yourself, work hard and don't let anyone tell you "you'll never make it." LauraZ, excellent.

My guy is also the quiet type, (actually the kid should be a comic, really) but, not around "authority". He would always be in the back, when coaches were talking, and boy his Dad would keep telling him, "move in front, stand tall, and listen" took a while but finally he is in the front of the group, has that quiet confidence.
Your son is young, and maybe feels awkward with the height and all, but just tell him," stand tall, be proud and show em on the field".(And maybe a fast ball at the fence,you know the one the coaches were standing by as they looked at that book)kinda like a hello, I'm over hear!


My son also did not make the middle school for 6th, 7th or 8th grade....he is the only kid from our town playing collegiate ball now thou...imagine that!

"Dream It, Believe It, Achieve It !"

Haven't read the whole thread but tell him BJ Upton got cut at that age too.

I am still laughing at Momof1B's suggestion of hitting the fence. I like it. A Nuke Laloosh variation.

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:
Keep him playing on other teams, get good instruction, and get him in the gym with workout routines that will help his athleticism. Once he hits puberty look out. Good luck.

quote:

Introduce him to Zack Greinke.

By that I mean, have him learn about what he had to overcome to pitch at the highest level.

Swagger, confidence and ability are often confussed.

Not to nitpick, I do see where “swagger” and confidence could be confused, but IMO ability is not so confusing.

In one way Zack Greinke would be a good example of someone overcoming difficulties. However, related to this topic, as a young kid Zach had amazing and rare ability. You don't need a lot of "swagger" if you possess a mid 90s fastball. He was also the top position player and hitter on most every team he played for in his amateur years. In fact, he really didn't want to be a pitcher, he wanted to play a position. If he didn’t have such a great arm, I believe he would have been a position player in the Big Leagues.

Also Zack actually had depression and social anxiety disorder and I never thought he was "shy", maybe "reserved" would be more accurate. I also doubt he was ever cut from a high school team or any team.

I was at the Twins complex a few years ago about this time of year. I heard someone say... Mr. Ford... I kind of recognized the young guy, but still not sure who it was. He saw the blank look in my eyes and said I'm Zack, Zack Greinke, how's it going.

No one would have ever guessed, unless they knew Zack, that he was a Big League pitcher. He looks and acts like your typical neighbor kid. There is no swagger or cockiness. He seemed so NON Big League (in a good way)... Just another kid! Even though I knew about Zack's medical condition at the time, none of that was noticeable.

This was after his first full year with the Royals. I asked him what he was doing there. He said he was there watching his brother "Luke" play. Luke was a very good underclassman at the time, but I hadn't seen him play yet. I asked Zack how good is Luke going to be. He said, he's real good! I asked Zack if Luke was going to be as good as him. His reply with a smile was a simple but sure... NO! So maybe “swagger” isn't required to be one of the best, but “ability” and “confidence” sure are.

quote:

his dad played baseball in college & was an All-American and I played softball in college and was a National Champion.

Maybe this isn't about the player. This was a parent cut. The coach is probably just a teacher at the middle school. Maybe he doesn't want an All American baseball player and a National Championship winning softball player looking over his shoulder...

However, there is nothing in the OP that indicates the parents and the coach had any interaction. I'm just throwing out another possibility. However, cutting this player makes no sense to me.

quote:

Originally posted by can-o-corn:
Haven't read the whole thread but tell him BJ Upton got cut at that age too.

In that case the coach always had a lot of critism...