situational hitting advice

Assuming no runners were on base, I think your son approached it correctly, given the situation and pitcher he was facing.

Had it been a closer with top-end stuff, then taking the fat 2-0 fastball down the middle _might_ not be the way to go, but given your point about "probably going to get more than one pitch to hit in this AB", then I think he absolutely had the right approach.

If the coach is looking for anything other than getting his first 2-3 hitters on base anyway possible in that situation, then he is not teaching the game. I'd be thrilled in that situation if I can get a BB, HBP or two and give ourselves a chance to come back and tie/win the game.

I would not be happy if the player is swinging for the fence. Obviously on 2-0, the chance of success is higher than the count your son ended up with, but its a 3-run deficit, not down a run (where getting that one guy in scoring position...extra-base hit... is more critical).

Some will say to be more aggressive, I understand, but I think his patience had a better chance of success for the team, than up there hacking...where the result could very well be the same... a hard line drive out.

If the fourth pitch (you say "third", but I think you mean fourth) was a borderline pitch, then he was on the cusp of a 3-1 count, which means he's basically back in a 2-0 count mentality (but has seen a strike, so now he's locked and loaded), but another ball and he's on the sack to start a rally.

The key to this scenario is "down by 3", IMHO. Down by 1 is a totally different thing.

As an aside, another key is the type of hitter at the plate. I don't know anything about your son. If I have a kid who can drive one to the wall, then down by 1 run means I have him swinging. If I have a contact hitter, with less power up there, then 2-0 down by 1 or 10, he's taking a strike. Down by 3, I think its wise to take a strike.

Again, I think he did well.

Coaches vary with their approaches. When down, many coaches will take until they get a strike. My college coach would allow the 1st pitch to be "ours", meaning swing away if it is in a zone to hammer. If that pitch is a ball, take until you get a strike. In either of these approaches, you son would have been fine.

What makes it more difficult to analyze is that it was probably the best pitch of the AB for him.

It sounds like he did a very good job even though the result wasn't what he wanted.

Well Allen, you pretty much took all the fun out of this one... covered most everything. Good post.

I will expand on a few things...
First, this approach for this situation is usually a good one, in fact many coaches would demand taking until you get a strike here. Not my favorite, but I understand the rationale.
Second, we need to dig deeper regarding the pitcher and the hitter. OP states that pitcher isn't particularly nasty, but how good is he at hitting his spots? If he can locate well, that 2-0 pitch with a three run lead may very well be as good a hitter's pitch as you get. And, as a hitter, if you have a very good grasp of your zone and you recognize that the pitcher has good control, then that 2-0 pitch is a good one to drive if in your "ahead in the count" zone.
If one of these two conditions(or both) don't exist, then take that pitch.
Another consideration regarding the hitter... is he a better early count hitter or can he battle well when deep in the count?

Bothsportsdad;

can your son hit a triple on a 2-0 pitch?
There are 11 ways to score from 3b w/less than 2 outs. Check our alumni.
Bob
http://www.goodwillseries.org/020111index.html

If your boy watched a pitch go by that he could have hit then he did himself and his team an injustice.

Know what you are looking for.
When you get it, hit it.

Dont wait for someone to fail, YOU SUCCEED!

Yesterday I showed my son his stats from his first 50 PA's in high school ball.
He swung at the first pitch 14 times (7 fouled off & 7 put in play, no whiffs). Batting average for those at-bats is .570.
He watched a first pitch strike 15 times. Batting average for those at-bats is .067.
He took first pitch ball 21 times, for a .190 BA and OBP of .524.

Interestingly, there was a big shift toward looking at first pitch strikes when he was moved from #2 to leadoff, and he has not stopped looking at them now that he's in the #2 spot again. He's giving away at-bats by quickly going down 0-2 and then becoming a defensive hitter.

Granted, some of the first pitch strikes he watched just weren't what he was looking for, but some were FB's right down the pike.
He understands the stats, but how does he get back to pulling the trigger when he should? Is there anything he can do in the batter's box to get into a more aggressive mind set? In the cage?
And is this the right anaysis / advice based on the stats?
Any help would be appreciated!

Totally agree 100% with everything Allen Wranglers posted above on this one.

quote:

Originally posted by playfair:
If your boy watched a pitch go by that he could have hit then he did himself and his team an injustice.

Know what you are looking for.
When you get it, hit it.

Dont wait for someone to fail, YOU SUCCEED!

I couldn't agree more. I used to watch my son's HS coach expression when a hitter let a 2-0 meatball go by. When my son was in a 2-0 situation with a fat pitch coming in, hits eyes lit up and was looking to drive the ball somewhere hard. If he hit it hard and made an out, so be it but it was the situation. If he took a strike on 2-0, then it wasn't a pitch he liked or was a pitcher's pitch. More often than not, taking the wrong approach but coming up on the positive end will still result in a skull session with the coach in why he made the choice he did. Bad decisions more often than not will lead to bad results.

While I get that some hitters job is to work the count and get on base but at the same time, they should be looking to drive the ball and just as importantly, not give the advantage back to the pitcher by letting hitters pitches go by and getting into a pitcher's count.

I also agree with playfair.

If it's something you can hit, swing. You might whiff, or foul it off, but at least your trigger mechanism is working. On a 2-0 count, You'll be more prepared to take care of the next hittable pitch, if you get one.

Allen Wranglers is right on. The subject is situational hitting. Down 3 runs late in the game. You need more than one base runner. Outs are now a premium so you gotta do what you gotta do for the team. I don't care if the pitch is straight and right down the middle. Taking for a strike in that "Situation" is absolutely the right thing to do. IMHO

I am with playfair on this although not quite as harsh...

Look, this is the bottom of the 9th. They opposing team must have their closer in, right? 2 balls, the hitter is likely to see his best pitch in this at bat next pitch.

If the object is to get on base and you have seen two pitches already and the third pitch is grooved I say jump on it and get your base hit. This is not the begining of the game and it is not the players first at bat. Did the pitcher walk the previous batter with 4 straight balls? No, this is the first batter of the inning late in the game. Why take a strike here if it is THE pitch to hit? Why torment yourself into watching a slider pick up the outside corner called for a strike or a pitch that you KNEW was off the plate but the umpire did not agree?

If you see your pitch than in my book the "situation" calls for you to drill it back up the middle for a single or into a gap for a double or over the fence.

If you are a hitter these are the counts that you should be expecting to see your pitch during. A 2-0 or a 3-1.

I understand the desire for a baserunner, that is why a hitter is called a hitter...they hit the ball and get on base. jmho though.

Letting a marginal pitch go on a 2-0 count is patience. But on 2-0 a hitter should be looking fastball and jump on it if it is a fat one.

Just one person's opinion, and given only because you asked! Sounds like he did a good job with the last pitch.

There is no question that taking the 2-0 pitch right down the middle is not good for the batting average. But (in a different situation) when a baserunner is at 2B with no outs and the hitter grounds out to the secondbaseman, that's not good for the batting average either. But it might be very good for helping the team win the game.

In the situation given...

The hitters goal is to get on base. In this situation it woulod also be the next hitters goal. The team has no chance until two men are on base.

More than ever... The pitchers goal is to throw strikes and make sure the hitter doesn't reach base without swinging the bat. He needs to throw 3 strikes. The walk tends to hurt more than a base hit. The pitcher is doing his job if he gives up a base hit. He has failed when he puts a runner on by walk or HBP.

The odds are the hitter will get more than one good pitch to hit. If the hitter doesn't swing the bat, he actually puts more pressure on the pitcher.

Many well hit balls turn into quick outs. Sometimes down the middle strikes are followed by two balls in the dirt or not even close to the strike zone.

Anyway, so much of this can be determined by advanced scouting reports or knowledge of the pitcher. Is he a strike thrower or does he walk lots of hitters? Does he throw his breaking ball and other off speed for strikes? Normally you are going to see lots of fastballs in this situation, evn if the count goes 2-1

In the end, it is very common for hitters to take a strike in this situation. However there are lots of things to consider. I might prefer the odds in taking that pitch, others could prefer the other way.

bothsportsdad,

You asked...

quote:

I thought his approach to be patient was correct in this situation but should he have been more aggressive? What are college coaches looking for?

IMO, he did the right thing and I like the way he thinks. What college coaches are looking for shouldn't even be a consideration at that time. But most college coaches would be impressed with his intent, whether they would agree or not with his approach.

Different college coaches are looking for different things just as high school coaches are. Each has their own approach that can vary from player to player. At the first D1 college program my son played he would be taking no matter who was pitching. At his JC and next college program he was never told/asked to take on any count under any situation. Personally, I hate to see a good hitter taking pitches even when behind in the game. I dislike letting the pitcher know/think my players bat is on his shoulder until he gets an easy strike.

At the high school level I see this as ability decision.

If you have a kid who can hit that doesn't panic and expand the strike zone then it's a good thing to take the pitch. Now they can try to work the walk. They can hit the next pitch down the middle or on the corners.

If you have a kid who can hit but has the tendency to expand the zone and panic then he better take advantage of the pitch down the middle. This kid can't wait to see if he gets walked or another pitch down the middle. Chances are he's going to swing at a ball in the dirt or off the corner.

If you have a kid who can't hit but has a great glove then pinch hit for him.

Overall I don't think you should ever have a take sign for your offense. I hate it because you're not teaching the game.

I will say this - if I have a kid who sees that fastball in a hitter's count and takes a good cut but gets out I'm not going to say anything to him. While there is that argument about taking pitches and working the count I still want guys who will swing the bat and put it in play hard. That's the name of the game - hit the ball hard.

quote:

I am with playfair on this although not quite as harsh...

OK, that is a bit harsh.. I totally agree. My kid is the most patient hitter ever. It kills me.



Thus the hard stance. I think that the longer you stay in the game you have to know what you are looking for. You are just not going too get much to hit.

Know what the team needs, decide what you are looking for and regardless of the count hit it and do not allow yourself to miss.

It is a hard stance.

A hard hit ball does not always lead to a hit or even getting on first base. A walk guarantees you first base 100% of the time.

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That's the name of the game - hit the ball hard.

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BTW, that is only a part of the game, bunts hitting behind runners etc... does not require a hard hit ball. I agree when the Situation calls for it (which is most of the time) yeah hit it hard!

Your son had a good approach given the situation in the game.