If they only take the taller guys, where do all these MLB all stars that are under 6'0 coming from. Somebody has to sign them before they can become a MLB all star!
I will agree that in many cases the smaller guy won't get drafted as high or paid as much to sign his first contract, but there are a lot of MLB players under 6'0 tall who are now multi millionaire super stars.
quote:Originally posted by bp140321:
But if movement, velo, etc... is equal in the two players then the taller guy should go before the shorter guy.
From another thread--If that ain't lucky, then I don't know what is!
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
but there are a lot of MLB players under 6'0 tall who are now multi millionaire super stars.
But how long have they been in the MLB system?
play baseball,
I'm sorry, but I don't understand the importance of that. I don't see where there would be any difference between tall or short (regarding your question)
Truth is if you look at those 6'0 and under, some have been there for a long time, others are just getting started. Just like the tall players.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand the importance of that. I don't see where there would be any difference between tall or short (regarding your question)
Truth is if you look at those 6'0 and under, some have been there for a long time, others are just getting started. Just like the tall players.
PG Staff
I believe the comparison is size was in terms of why tall pitchers are better than short ones.
I believe the comparison is size was in terms of why tall pitchers are better than short ones.
quote:A 5'10" guy releases the ball at about 52' 6" from home where as the 6'6" releases the ball at around 51' 10" from home. Which is a difference in time to react to the pitch making it simply harder to hit. Being that releasing the ball closer to home would give you less time to react. I don't feel like doing the math to figure out the exact difference but it would probably be a difference in .06 seconds which may not seem like alot but in a matter of hitting and recognizing a pitch it is.
Except that the pitch starts with the ball to the BACK. That's when the batter begins to size up the pitch. The longer the throwing arm, the farther AWAY the ball when it begins its flight toward the batter.
quote:I don't feel like doing the math to figure out the exact difference but it would probably be a difference in .06 seconds which may not seem like alot but in a matter of hitting and recognizing a pitch it is.
Ball takes about .5 second to travel from pitcher to plate. Even if the pitch originated at the release point, a tall pitcher would have an advatage of about 1%, or .005 second.
Or a smaller pitcher could just throw 1% faster than that taller one.
Reaction time, when considering the amount of time it takes the ball to reach the plate means very little. The important thing is when you have to start your swing and that is determined by how fast the ball is moving when it reaches the plate. Velocity is important but being a foot closer to the plate means nothing.
The reaction time for a LLer seeing a 70 mph fastball thrown from a 46' mound is about the same as a big leaguer seeing around a 90 mph fastball. The kids who can hit that 70 mph fastball thrown from a 46' mound couldn't come anywhere close to the 90 mph fastball thrown from the 60' mound.
The reaction time for a LLer seeing a 70 mph fastball thrown from a 46' mound is about the same as a big leaguer seeing around a 90 mph fastball. The kids who can hit that 70 mph fastball thrown from a 46' mound couldn't come anywhere close to the 90 mph fastball thrown from the 60' mound.
RR,
I have no interest in arguing but, did you see that list of shorter pitchers posted earlier in this thread? Here are some of them:
Bartolo Colon - RHP - 5'11"
Johan Santana - LHP - 6'0"
Roy Oswalt - RHP - 6'0"
Pedro Martinez - RHP - 5'11"
Greg Maddux - RHP - 6'0"
Tom Glavine - LHP 6'0"
Mike Hampton - LHP - 5'10"
Billy Wagner - LHP - 5'10"
Trevor Hoffman - RHP - 6'0"
Maybe there are 9 active tall pitchers who could compare with these guys during the last 10 or 15 years. We would have to add up the records and Cy Young awards. I bet it would be pretty close if we compared the very best of the tall pitchers with these shorter ones. Of course, a couple of those above are real young still and could compile much bigger numbers and more awards before they're done.
Of course it is understood that there are more pitchers over 6'0 than 6'0 and under in the Major Leagues. I fall into the same trap of coveting the tall pitchers over the shorter ones, but I've changed my opinion, somewhat, over the years because of things like the success of the pitchers listed above.
My original point was in reference to people thinking shorter pitchers don't have a chance. Major League teams really signed the guys on the list above. They didn't have to sign them, but they did. I think they're glad they did!
By the way, the first 7 pitchers listed above have won 1233 ML games and have 11 Cy Young Awards. The other two are a couple of the best closers of our time.
I have no interest in arguing but, did you see that list of shorter pitchers posted earlier in this thread? Here are some of them:
Bartolo Colon - RHP - 5'11"
Johan Santana - LHP - 6'0"
Roy Oswalt - RHP - 6'0"
Pedro Martinez - RHP - 5'11"
Greg Maddux - RHP - 6'0"
Tom Glavine - LHP 6'0"
Mike Hampton - LHP - 5'10"
Billy Wagner - LHP - 5'10"
Trevor Hoffman - RHP - 6'0"
Maybe there are 9 active tall pitchers who could compare with these guys during the last 10 or 15 years. We would have to add up the records and Cy Young awards. I bet it would be pretty close if we compared the very best of the tall pitchers with these shorter ones. Of course, a couple of those above are real young still and could compile much bigger numbers and more awards before they're done.
Of course it is understood that there are more pitchers over 6'0 than 6'0 and under in the Major Leagues. I fall into the same trap of coveting the tall pitchers over the shorter ones, but I've changed my opinion, somewhat, over the years because of things like the success of the pitchers listed above.
My original point was in reference to people thinking shorter pitchers don't have a chance. Major League teams really signed the guys on the list above. They didn't have to sign them, but they did. I think they're glad they did!
By the way, the first 7 pitchers listed above have won 1233 ML games and have 11 Cy Young Awards. The other two are a couple of the best closers of our time.
The distance from mound to point of plate is 60.5 feet. The strike zone starts at the front of the plate (17") so let's say 1.5 feet. The average major league pitcher strides out 80-90% of body length. A six foot pitcher will stride out about 5 feet. The distance from delivery to strike zone is about 54 feet. The angle of attack is about 4.5 degrees for a 6'5" pitcher and 3.7 degrees for a 5'5" pitcher. One foot difference of a pitcher is about 10 inches closer to the strike zone. It would be a little less than 2% closer (approximately 1/54).
However, baseball does have a thing about taller pitchers. When I ask scouts why they are looking for taller I get (1) angle of attack (no scout can tell me what it is though), (2) they won't get hurt throwing the same velocity as a smaller guy (this should be easily studied and I don't think it is correct), (3) they are closer to the plate.
It is interesting that Randy Johnson has such a low release point. You would think someone would have made him get that release point up.
If I get a job as scouting director I'm going to tell everyone around me to look for arms, not height.
However, baseball does have a thing about taller pitchers. When I ask scouts why they are looking for taller I get (1) angle of attack (no scout can tell me what it is though), (2) they won't get hurt throwing the same velocity as a smaller guy (this should be easily studied and I don't think it is correct), (3) they are closer to the plate.
It is interesting that Randy Johnson has such a low release point. You would think someone would have made him get that release point up.
If I get a job as scouting director I'm going to tell everyone around me to look for arms, not height.
It's not only distance variance in release point but level of release point. The lower the release point the easier it is to gauge the path of the trajectory.
A ball thrown by Randy Johnson iis close to twelve feet above you, if the mound is two feet high, and he is 6' 10" and his arm is 36 inches or three feet you can see if he throws a 12 to 6 arm slot the result is 24+82+36 divided by 12 = 11.93 feet.
With a shorter pitcher that translates to about 9 feet if the pitcher uses a 3/4 arm slot like Pedro.
Those three feet difference make the batter look up for the ball to pick it up then follow it on a downward trek while it could be moving into or away from the batter. That's a big difference in perspective that a shorter pitcher can't use as a weapon.
A ball thrown by Randy Johnson iis close to twelve feet above you, if the mound is two feet high, and he is 6' 10" and his arm is 36 inches or three feet you can see if he throws a 12 to 6 arm slot the result is 24+82+36 divided by 12 = 11.93 feet.
With a shorter pitcher that translates to about 9 feet if the pitcher uses a 3/4 arm slot like Pedro.
Those three feet difference make the batter look up for the ball to pick it up then follow it on a downward trek while it could be moving into or away from the batter. That's a big difference in perspective that a shorter pitcher can't use as a weapon.
Pitching is velocity, movement, location, deception and smarts.
A smaller pitcher with a lower entry-angle than what hitters are used to on a day-to-day basis has the advantage of deception.
A smaller pitcher with a lower entry-angle than what hitters are used to on a day-to-day basis has the advantage of deception.
RR
I dont need the pseudo scientific stuff--- a kid who throws well and knows how to pitch will succeed regardless of his height===the lack of height may only make it harder for him to be noticed--that is why the shorter pitcher works harder to succeed
I dont need the pseudo scientific stuff--- a kid who throws well and knows how to pitch will succeed regardless of his height===the lack of height may only make it harder for him to be noticed--that is why the shorter pitcher works harder to succeed
But Randy Johnson is not a 12-6 arm angle pitcher.
Comparing a very tall pitcher with an average one, the arrival angle difference is about 1/2 degree...microscopic.
If getting the ball to come in at a sharp downward angle were the goal, that could be achieved by simply throwing slower.
If getting the ball to come in at a sharp downward angle were the goal, that could be achieved by simply throwing slower.
quote:If getting the ball to come in at a sharp downward angle were the goal, that could be achieved by simply throwing slower.
Well then, sign me up! I'm getting slower by the day...does that make me worth more as time goes by?
A lot of this discussion is just what should be and not what is.
If a scout will only look at 6'+, then that's what he, or the team, wants.
It's kind of like looking for a promotion, the guy with a college degree in the desired skill area will usually get the job over a guy who doesn't and just has experience.
If a scout will only look at 6'+, then that's what he, or the team, wants.
It's kind of like looking for a promotion, the guy with a college degree in the desired skill area will usually get the job over a guy who doesn't and just has experience.
quote:I dont need the pseudo scientific stuff--- a kid who throws well and knows how to pitch will succeed regardless of his height===the lack of height may only make it harder for him to be noticed--that is why the shorter pitcher works harder to succeed
TRhit
I agree. I wonder how many miilions of dollars MLB teams have wasted in the last, say, 15 years by drafting guys solely on velocity, and not on knowing how to pitch?
My understanding is that Greg Maddux was throwing low-mid 90's in high school. Yet, for years, he's been mid-high 80's, and is 5-0 this year, topping out at 84. I watched him when I could during his first run with the Cubs, and the vast majority of his starts with Atlanta, and I don't recall him hitting the 90's.
The guy's probably going to be a 1st ballot HOF'er, and it's almost criminal to think that if he was throwing 87-88 in HS, he most likely wouldn't even have been drafted.
Bottom line for us in our inviting pitchers to play for us we look for WINNERS--guys who know how to pitch and win-- sure, if we can find the guy in the 90's that is great but he had better be able to get guys out and know how to pitch
Keep in mind that every player in the field behind the pitcher is an All Star at his position thus the pitcher is not working inn the normal HS player environment-- he has a team behind him--
Throw strikes son and let the players behind you do their job
Keep in mind that every player in the field behind the pitcher is an All Star at his position thus the pitcher is not working inn the normal HS player environment-- he has a team behind him--
Throw strikes son and let the players behind you do their job
quote:If a scout will only look at 6'+, then that's what he, or the team, wants.
I think it's called taking the easy way out.
There was a guy several years ago in SC that was a heck of an athlete. After his Jr. year, a scout I was talking to was alluding to this kid, saying that he'd be a 1st or 2nd rounder the next year. I laughed at him, and thought he was joking. The kid played weak compeitition, had no drive, a poor attitude, was a prima donna..but he had the size and speed. Sure enough, he was heavily scouted his Sr year, drafted in the 2nd round, if I remember right...signed for a big bonus, and walked away from baseball after a couple of years without even playing a full season.
I saw that same scout after that, and the first thing he said was,"Pleaase don't say I told you so"....he said they didn't scout character and heart, they were looking strictly for kids that fit the mold they were looking for.
Baseball and the guys who make it ---it is all about HEART---without it it matters not the amount of talent --the players with HEART will be the ones to succeed regardless of their size etal
PG:
Originally, you said: "but there are a lot of MLB players under 6'0 tall who are now multi millionaire super stars."
Then I responded: "But how long have they been in the MLB system?"
And you followed with: "I'm sorry, but I don't understand the importance of that. I don't see where there would be any difference between tall or short (regarding your question). Truth is if you look at those 6'0 and under, some have been there for a long time, others are just getting started. Just like the tall players."
You have listed a number of pitchers and other players who are less than 6' tall. It is true that shorter players are in the MLB. My hunch is that more recently, in the past handful of years, fewer are being considered. The overwhelming emphasis and attention these days are fixed on players who are taller than 6' or 6'2".
I have heard some instances personally where scouts do not look at good, solid players who are less than 6'2". Here on the hsbbw, there are many defenders of the smaller in stature players, but I have yet to hear anyone on this site with scouting credentials state something like "yes, indeed, we consider all players, regardless of height."
I admit that I don't go into every forum. There may very well be responses by scouts that are contrary to my hunch. Believe me, I would be delighted to hear or read such responses.
Originally, you said: "but there are a lot of MLB players under 6'0 tall who are now multi millionaire super stars."
Then I responded: "But how long have they been in the MLB system?"
And you followed with: "I'm sorry, but I don't understand the importance of that. I don't see where there would be any difference between tall or short (regarding your question). Truth is if you look at those 6'0 and under, some have been there for a long time, others are just getting started. Just like the tall players."
You have listed a number of pitchers and other players who are less than 6' tall. It is true that shorter players are in the MLB. My hunch is that more recently, in the past handful of years, fewer are being considered. The overwhelming emphasis and attention these days are fixed on players who are taller than 6' or 6'2".
I have heard some instances personally where scouts do not look at good, solid players who are less than 6'2". Here on the hsbbw, there are many defenders of the smaller in stature players, but I have yet to hear anyone on this site with scouting credentials state something like "yes, indeed, we consider all players, regardless of height."
I admit that I don't go into every forum. There may very well be responses by scouts that are contrary to my hunch. Believe me, I would be delighted to hear or read such responses.
quote:I have yet to hear anyone on this site with scouting credentials state something like "yes, indeed, we consider all players, regardless of height."
Never are "all players" of any size considered. Just those that have outstanding tools and ability.
Play baseball,
I really do have scouting credentials and so do most all of the people who work for us. We didn’t just start doing this stuff as a hobby. I must admit I feel a bit slighted by your remark about someone with scouting credentials speaking up. That’s OK though.
If you read everything I’ve mentioned on the subject, you will find my response is that the taller players are favored by scouts and Major League Clubs. I’ve even stated that I prefer the taller pitchers myself. My response is regarding the idea that scouts overlook all the shorter players. Obviously, there are many they did not completely overlook who are in the Major Leagues right now.
The number 1 most important thing to any scout when he first views a player performing is the players ABILITY. Everything else might be important, but it is secondary!!! There are a lot of tall players who lack ability and they are not drafted. All things being equal, the taller player will be most interesting (seldom are all things equal).
There is no doubt in my mind which of the following two pitchers will create the most scouting and draft interest.
18 year old 6’5 pitcher who has a slow arm, bad mechanics and tops out in the low 80s
18 year old 6’0 pitcher who has great arm action and mechanics and tops at 94 mph
Once again my question is, How does anyone think guys like Maddux, Colon, Oswalt, Santana, Kazmir, Martinez, Hampton, etc. got to the Big Leagues? Shouldn't it be obvious that someone with "scouting credentials" liked them!
Regarding how long they’ve been in the Major Leagues, here’s some things to think about.
The Rookie of the Year last year in the American League is RHP Houston Street. He is listed as 6’0 tall. He was drafted in the supplemental 1st round in 2004. Also in that year high school lefty by the name of Gio Gonzalez at 5’10 was drafted in the first round just before Street. Last year the Atlanta Braves took 5’11 RHP Joey Devine in the first round! Scott Kazmir was a first round choice in 2002. Greg Maddux went in the 2nd round in 1984. On the other hand, Oswalt was selected in the 23rd round in 1996. Last year a high school RHP (Jeremy Hellickson) from Iowa, who is really 5-10 or 5-11 was drafted in the 4th round and paid $500,000 to sign. The American League Cy Young Award last year went to 5’11” RHP Bartolo Colon. The year before the American League Cy Young winner was 6’0” LHP Johan Santana. 5’11 RHP Pedro Martinez won the AL Cy Young in both 1999 and 2000 and the NL Cy Young in 1997.
All I’m saying is ability is MUCH more important than size, to nearly everyone in baseball. Same amount of ability… Size wins out!
The bottom line… Size is very important for many reasons, but I get tired of reading comments that make kids feel like they have no chance if they aren’t 6’4” tall. It just is NOT true. The odds may be against them, but the odds are against just about everyone ever making it to the Major Leagues. Once a player is in professional baseball, he has a chance. People stop talking about his size and look at his performance.
Usually when these size topics and velocity topics come up, we have people who base their opinions from a personal stand point. For example… Parents with big tall kids think size is important. Parents with smaller sons think it is over rated. Parents who have pitchers who throw 90+ think velocity is very important. Parents who have sons who throw 80 mph think velocity is over rated.
Just so that you know I’m not thinking that way. My son is 6’7” tall and used to throw in the upper 90s and pitched in the Major Leagues. I think size is way over rated! And so is velocity to a certain extent. Both are very important, both are over rated. If that makes any sense?
Pg,
Size is never overrated....
You are right, size alone doesnt make a high end ball player, but you yourself admitted it, you like tall pitchers...why exactly?
As evidence I would again offer up the rosters for last years Aflac All American Classic, supposedly the top 38 HS players in country. Only 2 of them were under 6' tall.
Another piece of info to consider, i just went thru ESPNs rosters for MLS teams. 20.8% of the listed MLB pitchers were 6'0" or under, 49.6% of them were 6'1" to 6'3" and 29.8% were 6'4" or taller.
As far as talent level is concerned, i would say as we are all talking about players that have the ability and talent to play at a high level. You right if you big but cant perform at all, you wont get a look. No more than 7' basketball player ho cant dribble or run well will get a look from the NBA or any D1 school.
Your listing of a few players who have attained top level sucess while true, is a bit of a distortion of the simple facts. 80% of MLB pitchers are 6'1" or bigger.
No one is debating that an extremely talented player who is smaller cannot achieve high level status. The truth of the matter is simply it is a harder road for that player. Hence...Size Does Matter.
Best of Luck To ALL players,
Big,Small,fast or slow...Work Hard on your fundamentals and max out what ever your potential is
Size is never overrated....
You are right, size alone doesnt make a high end ball player, but you yourself admitted it, you like tall pitchers...why exactly?
As evidence I would again offer up the rosters for last years Aflac All American Classic, supposedly the top 38 HS players in country. Only 2 of them were under 6' tall.
Another piece of info to consider, i just went thru ESPNs rosters for MLS teams. 20.8% of the listed MLB pitchers were 6'0" or under, 49.6% of them were 6'1" to 6'3" and 29.8% were 6'4" or taller.
As far as talent level is concerned, i would say as we are all talking about players that have the ability and talent to play at a high level. You right if you big but cant perform at all, you wont get a look. No more than 7' basketball player ho cant dribble or run well will get a look from the NBA or any D1 school.
Your listing of a few players who have attained top level sucess while true, is a bit of a distortion of the simple facts. 80% of MLB pitchers are 6'1" or bigger.
No one is debating that an extremely talented player who is smaller cannot achieve high level status. The truth of the matter is simply it is a harder road for that player. Hence...Size Does Matter.
Best of Luck To ALL players,
Big,Small,fast or slow...Work Hard on your fundamentals and max out what ever your potential is
Play,
In case you missed this, I posted this once before, coming from the PG website. I found it very intresting and most helpful and pretty accurate according to scouts that I have met.
http://www.perfectgame.org/crack%5Fof%5Fthe%5Fbat/blain...07%5Fscouting%5F101/
PG brings up very good points. For those of us who have taller sons, we say size is important, those that have smaller sons will argue it is ability fisrt. Same for velocity. I am only speaking for pitchers as that really is the position I follow more closely, but I have heard numerous things about other players. For example, while watching a college game the anouncers spoke about how coaches and scouts like catchers to be smaller (?), same way for CF (?). According to this article, physical attributes are not mentioned for position players but for pitchers.
This should not be a place to discourage any player for any position. And certainly encouraged to always work as hard as he can to fulfill his potential at the highest level.
I do beleive that there is a place in college for any good baseball player, especially pitchers.
My son never wanted to be a pitcher. But his lanky frame and long arms and legs were better suited for his future as a pitcher. We heard that over and over and over when he was younger. So I am assuming there has to be something said for what we were told.
Of course any pitcher can be tall and lanky, but reality is, if you do not have the tools needed you could be 7 feet and it does not matter.
So lets put two pitchers together, same height but one has most of the attributes mentioned and the other doesn't than SIZE DOES NOT MATTER.
Can we all agree on that?
In case you missed this, I posted this once before, coming from the PG website. I found it very intresting and most helpful and pretty accurate according to scouts that I have met.
http://www.perfectgame.org/crack%5Fof%5Fthe%5Fbat/blain...07%5Fscouting%5F101/
PG brings up very good points. For those of us who have taller sons, we say size is important, those that have smaller sons will argue it is ability fisrt. Same for velocity. I am only speaking for pitchers as that really is the position I follow more closely, but I have heard numerous things about other players. For example, while watching a college game the anouncers spoke about how coaches and scouts like catchers to be smaller (?), same way for CF (?). According to this article, physical attributes are not mentioned for position players but for pitchers.
This should not be a place to discourage any player for any position. And certainly encouraged to always work as hard as he can to fulfill his potential at the highest level.
I do beleive that there is a place in college for any good baseball player, especially pitchers.
My son never wanted to be a pitcher. But his lanky frame and long arms and legs were better suited for his future as a pitcher. We heard that over and over and over when he was younger. So I am assuming there has to be something said for what we were told.
Of course any pitcher can be tall and lanky, but reality is, if you do not have the tools needed you could be 7 feet and it does not matter.
So lets put two pitchers together, same height but one has most of the attributes mentioned and the other doesn't than SIZE DOES NOT MATTER.
Can we all agree on that?
PG:
All of the following quotes were originally posted by PGStaff:
I agree with you on that. Perhaps I should have said "of all the players who are considered, they are almost always 6' and taller."
My apologies to you if you felt slighted. That wasn't my intent. I wasn't thinking of you or PG when I made my comments. You, with your credentials, have spoken on behalf of smaller player numerous times.
I can appreciate that, but how much of a deficit does a smaller player have to make up just to be considered even with a taller player? How many small players who have ability are drafted? Taller players get the nod.
Again, I agree. The 6'0 pitcher should draw the interest.
Yes, it is obvious.
All true.
True again, but frustrating if you're a smaller stature player.
Yes, the odds are long for everyone, it's just that they are much longer for the smaller statured player.
It doesn't really matter what the parents think.
OK...in this case, you're just a parent, right?
This issue will always be a controversy. I remember the days when it was common to hear "You don't have to be tall to play baseball." I don't hear that anymore.
PG, No hard feelings?!?
All of the following quotes were originally posted by PGStaff:
quote:Never are "all players" of any size considered. Just those that have outstanding tools and ability.
I agree with you on that. Perhaps I should have said "of all the players who are considered, they are almost always 6' and taller."
quote:I really do have scouting credentials and so do most all of the people who work for us. We didn’t just start doing this stuff as a hobby. I must admit I feel a bit slighted by your remark about someone with scouting credentials speaking up. That’s OK though. If you read everything I’ve mentioned on the subject, you will find my response is that the taller players are favored by scouts and Major League Clubs. I’ve even stated that I prefer the taller pitchers myself. My response is regarding the idea that scouts overlook all the shorter players. Obviously, there are many they did not completely overlook who are in the Major Leagues right now.
My apologies to you if you felt slighted. That wasn't my intent. I wasn't thinking of you or PG when I made my comments. You, with your credentials, have spoken on behalf of smaller player numerous times.
quote:The number 1 most important thing to any scout when he first views a player performing is the players ABILITY. Everything else might be important, but it is secondary!!! There are a lot of tall players who lack ability and they are not drafted. All things being equal, the taller player will be most interesting (seldom are all things equal.
I can appreciate that, but how much of a deficit does a smaller player have to make up just to be considered even with a taller player? How many small players who have ability are drafted? Taller players get the nod.
quote:There is no doubt in my mind which of the following two pitchers will create the most scouting and draft interest.
18 year old 6’5 pitcher who has a slow arm, bad mechanics and tops out in the low 80s
18 year old 6’0 pitcher who has great arm action and mechanics and tops at 94 mph
Again, I agree. The 6'0 pitcher should draw the interest.
quote:Once again my question is, How does anyone think guys like Maddux, Colon, Oswalt, Santana, Kazmir, Martinez, Hampton, etc. got to the Big Leagues? Shouldn't it be obvious that someone with "scouting credentials" liked them!
Yes, it is obvious.
quote:Regarding how long they’ve been in the Major Leagues, here’s some things to think about. The Rookie of the Year last year in the American League is RHP Houston Street. He is listed as 6’0 tall. He was drafted in the supplemental 1st round in 2004. Also in that year high school lefty by the name of Gio Gonzalez at 5’10 was drafted in the first round just before Street. Last year the Atlanta Braves took 5’11 RHP Joey Devine in the first round! Scott Kazmir was a first round choice in 2002. Greg Maddux went in the 2nd round in 1984. On the other hand, Oswalt was selected in the 23rd round in 1996. Last year a high school RHP (Jeremy Hellickson) from Iowa, who is really 5-10 or 5-11 was drafted in the 4th round and paid $500,000 to sign. The American League Cy Young Award last year went to 5’11” RHP Bartolo Colon. The year before the American League Cy Young winner was 6’0” LHP Johan Santana. 5’11 RHP Pedro Martinez won the AL Cy Young in both 1999 and 2000 and the NL Cy Young in 1997.
All true.
quote:All I’m saying is ability is MUCH more important than size, to nearly everyone in baseball. Same amount of ability… Size wins out!
True again, but frustrating if you're a smaller stature player.
quote:The bottom line… Size is very important for many reasons, but I get tired of reading comments that make kids feel like they have no chance if they aren’t 6’4” tall. It just is NOT true. The odds may be against them, but the odds are against just about everyone ever making it to the Major Leagues. Once a player is in professional baseball, he has a chance. People stop talking about his size and look at his performance.
Yes, the odds are long for everyone, it's just that they are much longer for the smaller statured player.
quote:Usually when these size topics and velocity topics come up, we have people who base their opinions from a personal stand point. For example… Parents with big tall kids think size is important. Parents with smaller sons think it is over rated. Parents who have pitchers who throw 90+ think velocity is very important. Parents who have sons who throw 80 mph think velocity is over rated.
It doesn't really matter what the parents think.
quote:Just so that you know I’m not thinking that way. My son is 6’7” tall and used to throw in the upper 90s and pitched in the Major Leagues. I think size is way over rated! And so is velocity to a certain extent. Both are very important, both are over rated. If that makes any sense?
OK...in this case, you're just a parent, right?
This issue will always be a controversy. I remember the days when it was common to hear "You don't have to be tall to play baseball." I don't hear that anymore.
PG, No hard feelings?!?
Tiger Paw Mom:
Yes, we can agree on that!!!
btw: Thank you for the link to the article. It was interesting.
quote:Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
So lets put two pitchers togethe, same heightbut one has trhe most attributes mentioned and the other doesn't than SIZE DOES NOT MATTER.
Can we all agree on that?
Yes, we can agree on that!!!
btw: Thank you for the link to the article. It was interesting.
I remember this being posted way back
"If you're short you have to prove you can play, if you're tall you have to prove you can't play"
"If you're short you have to prove you can play, if you're tall you have to prove you can't play"
quote:As evidence I would again offer up the rosters for last years Aflac All American Classic, supposedly the top 38 HS players in country. Only 2 of them were under 6' tall.
Where have I ever spoken on behalf of smaller players without mentioning the importance of size?
OK, first of all, we have selected each and every player who has ever participated in the Aflcac Classics.
Size is always a consideration, but comes in second to ability. Of the 38 players that WE selected last year, here are the players 6-0 and under: Note 3 of the best pitchers there are included. Check this years draft and see if the MLB clubs like these three pitchers.
Kasey Kiker LHP
Jeremy Jeffress RHP (listed 6-1 but he isn't)
Kyle Drabek RHP (listed as 6-0 but he isn't)Torre Langley C
Ryan Adams SS
Hank Conger C
Jared Mitchell OF
Jeff Rapoport OF (Listed as 6-0 but he isn't)
The 2004 Aflac All American teams
Andrew McCutchen OF (first round draft pick)
John Drennen OF (first round draft pick)Diallo Fon OF
Sean O'Sullivan RHP (listed as 6-1 but he isn't - 3rd round draft pick))
Jeremy Hellickson RHP (4th round draft pick, signed for $500,000)
Nick Romero SS
And the first year Aflac All Americans
Eric Campbell 2B/SS (2nd round draft pick)
Stephen Chapman OF
Brad Emaus INF
Gio Gonzalez LHP (first round draft pick)
Chris Nelson SS (first round draft pick)
Warren McFadden OF
Matt Bush SS (1st pick of the draft)
Greg Golson OF (listed above 6-0 but isn't - first round draft pick)
Andy Lentz OF
Troy Patton (listed as 6-1 but he isn't)
Note 6 of the 18 Aflac All Americans who went in the 1st round were 6'0" or under. That's one third of the first rounders! Of the 7 Aflac All American pitchers who went in the first round only one was under 6-0. But there was one and I think there might be a couple more this year.
Listen, I'm not defending anything at all. Simply mentioning some facts that it appears some folks don't quite want to hear.
Does a smaller pitcher have to be better than a big pitcher to receive the same attention? YES, once again... And sometimes that is exactly what happens!!! Why doesn't someone dispute that list of pitchers I posted????
Andrew McCutchen OF (first round draft pick)
Probably my all-time favorite youth player.
What a great kid - Not on topic - but I am so glad he has done well - and is still doing very well.
You go Andrew!!!
Probably my all-time favorite youth player.
What a great kid - Not on topic - but I am so glad he has done well - and is still doing very well.
You go Andrew!!!
PG,
I am not here to argue with you or to tell young men who are not over 6' tall that they can't be top flight players. I simply want to bring a point of view to the discussion that is believe is more realistic to those of us just starting out on the journey. I believe I can speak for everyone here when I say we hope all the young men who are members here or whose parents are, will achieve their goals.
There is a difference however between hopes and dreams and the cold reality of the world. Most all of us parents here have certainly experienced it. I truely believe its only fair to present each player with a fair assesment of his chances to achieve those dreams.
All of this reminds me of a pyramid chart that the director of the first AAU organization my son played for brought in to show the boys when they were 12 yrs old. The base of the pyramid represented the mumber of Little League players in the US. The next level depicted the number of kids playing organized ball (Bath Ruth, Senior LL, AAU, etc) from the ages of 13-15. Next came the amount of players in high school, followed by college. the top two layers of this chart showed the number of players in all of pro ball and then then the number of Major League players. The purpose of showing them this chart and the talk that followed was not to "squash" their dreams. It was to show them that working on the academics was more important than working on baseball. It was important for them to know just exactly how difficult it is to make your living at this sport. A side effect of it though was a realization that the odds of playing college baseball, let alone profession ball, are not great. Also, that as you attempt to move up that pyramid, there is an immense amount of competition for those spots.
No one here is disputing the fact that smaller very talented player will get his opportunities. But the real world facts are that a bigger skilled player will have more oportunities than a smaller skilled player.
I will state this again, the premise of the thread was size does not matter, and that simply is not true. No one is saying ONLY size matters, but that it is one of the first impression factors that helps to decide how all those opportunities are handed out.
Let us consider size in a different way.
we have two players, both 18, both equally talented fielders(range, quickness, arm strength). One is 5'10", 195 lbs, solid muscle.
the second player is also 5'10", but 150 lbs, athletic, but slender.
I am pretty sure that at your showcase event, the bigger player will attract more attention than the smaller one. Now along with that attention comes the dreaded "P" word (Potential) as everyone waits to see him swing.
If he is a dud at the plate, everyone walks away and starts looking for other players to watch. If he starts crushing the ball though, most everyone's eyes will be on him.
I have witnessed this kind of situation at every tryout, camp and showcase I have ever
seen. This is point I am trying to make.
It is easy to say an exceptional smaller athlete will be chosen over a larger one with a low skill level. That is of course a given.
I am very glad for each of the young men you have mentioned in your previous posts. I wish them continued success, but I notice you are only providing info on one side of this discussion. My intentions here are not simply disprove your facts for the sake of doing it, but to shine the light of reality on the discussion. You list a series of individuals who have achieved great success, but statiscally these players are indeed a small minority.
If you want to match names and aomplishemnts, I think even you will admit that a smaller player has a less likely chance, not an impossible one, to be on that list.
As a simple example, you mentioned that Colon was last years Cy Young Winner, yet you did not mention that Chris Carpenter, the NL Cy Young winner is 6'6". The top closer of the past few years and has no peer as far as post season play goes, Mariano Rivera, is 6'2". (ouch, as a Red Sox fan it hurts to say that last sentence).
Just curiousity here, but is every player who is listed at 6'0" or 6'1" really not that height ? and if size doesn't matter, why ccheat on the roster height?
I am not here to argue with you or to tell young men who are not over 6' tall that they can't be top flight players. I simply want to bring a point of view to the discussion that is believe is more realistic to those of us just starting out on the journey. I believe I can speak for everyone here when I say we hope all the young men who are members here or whose parents are, will achieve their goals.
There is a difference however between hopes and dreams and the cold reality of the world. Most all of us parents here have certainly experienced it. I truely believe its only fair to present each player with a fair assesment of his chances to achieve those dreams.
All of this reminds me of a pyramid chart that the director of the first AAU organization my son played for brought in to show the boys when they were 12 yrs old. The base of the pyramid represented the mumber of Little League players in the US. The next level depicted the number of kids playing organized ball (Bath Ruth, Senior LL, AAU, etc) from the ages of 13-15. Next came the amount of players in high school, followed by college. the top two layers of this chart showed the number of players in all of pro ball and then then the number of Major League players. The purpose of showing them this chart and the talk that followed was not to "squash" their dreams. It was to show them that working on the academics was more important than working on baseball. It was important for them to know just exactly how difficult it is to make your living at this sport. A side effect of it though was a realization that the odds of playing college baseball, let alone profession ball, are not great. Also, that as you attempt to move up that pyramid, there is an immense amount of competition for those spots.
No one here is disputing the fact that smaller very talented player will get his opportunities. But the real world facts are that a bigger skilled player will have more oportunities than a smaller skilled player.
I will state this again, the premise of the thread was size does not matter, and that simply is not true. No one is saying ONLY size matters, but that it is one of the first impression factors that helps to decide how all those opportunities are handed out.
Let us consider size in a different way.
we have two players, both 18, both equally talented fielders(range, quickness, arm strength). One is 5'10", 195 lbs, solid muscle.
the second player is also 5'10", but 150 lbs, athletic, but slender.
I am pretty sure that at your showcase event, the bigger player will attract more attention than the smaller one. Now along with that attention comes the dreaded "P" word (Potential) as everyone waits to see him swing.
If he is a dud at the plate, everyone walks away and starts looking for other players to watch. If he starts crushing the ball though, most everyone's eyes will be on him.
I have witnessed this kind of situation at every tryout, camp and showcase I have ever
seen. This is point I am trying to make.
It is easy to say an exceptional smaller athlete will be chosen over a larger one with a low skill level. That is of course a given.
I am very glad for each of the young men you have mentioned in your previous posts. I wish them continued success, but I notice you are only providing info on one side of this discussion. My intentions here are not simply disprove your facts for the sake of doing it, but to shine the light of reality on the discussion. You list a series of individuals who have achieved great success, but statiscally these players are indeed a small minority.
If you want to match names and aomplishemnts, I think even you will admit that a smaller player has a less likely chance, not an impossible one, to be on that list.
As a simple example, you mentioned that Colon was last years Cy Young Winner, yet you did not mention that Chris Carpenter, the NL Cy Young winner is 6'6". The top closer of the past few years and has no peer as far as post season play goes, Mariano Rivera, is 6'2". (ouch, as a Red Sox fan it hurts to say that last sentence).
Just curiousity here, but is every player who is listed at 6'0" or 6'1" really not that height ? and if size doesn't matter, why ccheat on the roster height?
NHFundamentals,
You bring up some very logical points. Your post is well written and makes a lot of sense. Now, if you would be kind enough to read what I have written on the subject.
Allow me to address a few of your points.
I believe it is “hopes and dreams” that is the major reason people overcome cold reality. I’ve experienced both! I truly believe the BIG dreamers have the advantage over the realists! Of course, some people think I’m half crazy. All those people are half wrong!
Academics have never been brought up in this discussion. Why not consider both academics and baseball important? Truth is (in reality) the advice above should be given to players of all sizes. We should tell players of all sizes just how difficult it is to make their living in baseball
Not necessarily true. First time we saw Matt Bush, he was 5-9/145, he drew much more “attention” than all the 195 lbers there. He later became the very first pick of the draft. Scott Kazmir stuck out much more than bigger pitchers. Lastings Milledge stood out more than any 6-2 player, Jeremy Hellickson drew more interest than any 6 foot plus player in our state.
You really don’t know me very well, I was once well known by my scouting friends as the most caught up in size of anyone. Of course, the smaller players are in the minority, always will be. So should every young Greg Maddux get caught up in the cold reality of the situation? I really don't know how much more "reality" I can stand! When it comes to playing at the highest levels... everyone is in the minority! The bigger guys have an advantage... so what? They have an advantage in lots of things.
My son was on the same team, I’ve stood next to Mariano, I’d guess him to be 6-0. Of course, everyone can name tons of great tall pitchers. I only named the shorter ones to make a point. Ability is #1 most important, much more important than size! The odds are greatly stacked against players of all sizes. Yes, the bigger guys have an advantage so long as they have the necessary talent and projection! Smaller guys are not often considered full of projection unless they are very young and have room to grow.
I apologize, if bringing up names of top players who are not over 6’0” tall bothers anyone. I’m simply showing it can (and has) happened. The percentages change when the ability and work ethic stands out. I’m not sticking up for the smaller players, I’m sticking up for baseball players… some of them are not tall!
To end my part in this discussion... Here are a few comments from the posts I’ve made in this thread. I can’t figure out why nobody is reading these. I don't understand why anyone feels I might actually favor the small player over the tall one.
Quotes made by PGStaff in this thread...
The above are all comments I made in this thread. So, there really can’t be much to argue about… is there?
You bring up some very logical points. Your post is well written and makes a lot of sense. Now, if you would be kind enough to read what I have written on the subject.
Allow me to address a few of your points.
quote:There is a difference however between hopes and dreams and the cold reality of the world. Most all of us parents here have certainly experienced it.
I believe it is “hopes and dreams” that is the major reason people overcome cold reality. I’ve experienced both! I truly believe the BIG dreamers have the advantage over the realists! Of course, some people think I’m half crazy. All those people are half wrong!
quote:The purpose of showing them this chart and the talk that followed was not to "squash" their dreams. It was to show them that working on the academics was more important than working on baseball. It was important for them to know just exactly how difficult it is to make your living at this sport.
Academics have never been brought up in this discussion. Why not consider both academics and baseball important? Truth is (in reality) the advice above should be given to players of all sizes. We should tell players of all sizes just how difficult it is to make their living in baseball
quote:Let us consider size in a different way.
we have two players, both 18, both equally talented fielders(range, quickness, arm strength). One is 5'10", 195 lbs, solid muscle.
the second player is also 5'10", but 150 lbs, athletic, but slender.
I am pretty sure that at your showcase event, the bigger player will attract more attention than the smaller one.
Not necessarily true. First time we saw Matt Bush, he was 5-9/145, he drew much more “attention” than all the 195 lbers there. He later became the very first pick of the draft. Scott Kazmir stuck out much more than bigger pitchers. Lastings Milledge stood out more than any 6-2 player, Jeremy Hellickson drew more interest than any 6 foot plus player in our state.
quote:My intentions here are not simply disprove your facts for the sake of doing it, but to shine the light of reality on the discussion. You list a series of individuals who have achieved great success, but statiscally these players are indeed a small minority.
You really don’t know me very well, I was once well known by my scouting friends as the most caught up in size of anyone. Of course, the smaller players are in the minority, always will be. So should every young Greg Maddux get caught up in the cold reality of the situation? I really don't know how much more "reality" I can stand! When it comes to playing at the highest levels... everyone is in the minority! The bigger guys have an advantage... so what? They have an advantage in lots of things.
quote:As a simple example, you mentioned that Colon was last years Cy Young Winner, yet you did not mention that Chris Carpenter, the NL Cy Young winner is 6'6". The top closer of the past few years and has no peer as far as post season play goes, Mariano Rivera, is 6'2".
My son was on the same team, I’ve stood next to Mariano, I’d guess him to be 6-0. Of course, everyone can name tons of great tall pitchers. I only named the shorter ones to make a point. Ability is #1 most important, much more important than size! The odds are greatly stacked against players of all sizes. Yes, the bigger guys have an advantage so long as they have the necessary talent and projection! Smaller guys are not often considered full of projection unless they are very young and have room to grow.
I apologize, if bringing up names of top players who are not over 6’0” tall bothers anyone. I’m simply showing it can (and has) happened. The percentages change when the ability and work ethic stands out. I’m not sticking up for the smaller players, I’m sticking up for baseball players… some of them are not tall!
To end my part in this discussion... Here are a few comments from the posts I’ve made in this thread. I can’t figure out why nobody is reading these. I don't understand why anyone feels I might actually favor the small player over the tall one.
Quotes made by PGStaff in this thread...
quote:Then again it is possible to be 6-0 or under and get to the next level.
quote:I will agree that in many cases the smaller guy won't get drafted as high or paid as much to sign his first contract, but there are a lot of MLB players under 6'0 tall who are now multi millionaire super stars.
quote:Of course it is understood that there are more pitchers over 6'0 than 6'0 and under in the Major Leagues. I fall into the same trap of coveting the tall pitchers over the shorter ones, but I've changed my opinion, somewhat, over the years because of things like the success of the pitchers listed above.
quote:My original point was in reference to people thinking shorter pitchers don't have a chance. Major League teams really signed the guys on the list above. They didn't have to sign them, but they did. I think they're glad they did!
quote:If you read everything I’ve mentioned on the subject, you will find my response is that the taller players are favored by scouts and Major League Clubs. I’ve even stated that I prefer the taller pitchers myself. My response is regarding the idea that scouts overlook all the shorter players. Obviously, there are many they did not completely overlook who are in the Major Leagues right now.
quote:All things being equal, the taller player will be most interesting (seldom are all things equal).
quote:All I’m saying is ability is MUCH more important than size, to nearly everyone in baseball. Same amount of ability… Size wins out!
quote:The bottom line… Size is very important for many reasons, but I get tired of reading comments that make kids feel like they have no chance if they aren’t 6’4” tall. It just is NOT true. The odds may be against them, but the odds are against just about everyone ever making it to the Major Leagues.
quote:Where have I ever spoken on behalf of smaller players without mentioning the importance of size?
quote:Does a smaller pitcher have to be better than a big pitcher to receive the same attention? YES, once again... And sometimes that is exactly what happens!!!
The above are all comments I made in this thread. So, there really can’t be much to argue about… is there?
Anecdotaly, I went to a High A game Saturday night. A righty closer pitched, VERY generously listed at 6-0 212#, probably more near 5-9.
Sat behind the gun for 3 innings. Highest number I saw was 88....for anyone of the 5 pitchers who threw.
Sat behind the gun for 3 innings. Highest number I saw was 88....for anyone of the 5 pitchers who threw.
My LHP at 16 (5'9") is currently "height-challenged". But he's still growing so we'll see. I've heard the arguments about release points and entry planes.. all pretty relevant stuff that may or may not put the shorter players at a disadvantage, I won't argue that..
but I take issue with the argument that the taller kids are somehow more durable. That hasn't been my experience. My kid is the ace of his staff, logs tons of pitches and innings, and gets stronger as the year progresses.
The taller kids in our program almost to a man have serious arm or mechanical issues. I am certainly not saying this is generally true, just in our program. But I really wonder if the shorter kids, being more compact, have less "stuff" to go wrong.
but I take issue with the argument that the taller kids are somehow more durable. That hasn't been my experience. My kid is the ace of his staff, logs tons of pitches and innings, and gets stronger as the year progresses.
The taller kids in our program almost to a man have serious arm or mechanical issues. I am certainly not saying this is generally true, just in our program. But I really wonder if the shorter kids, being more compact, have less "stuff" to go wrong.
Bum:
Makes you wonder about the difference between a Ford Fiesta and a Hummer.
quote:Originally posted by Bum:
But I really wonder if the shorter kids, being more compact, have less "stuff" to go wrong.
Makes you wonder about the difference between a Ford Fiesta and a Hummer.
Fungo
I mentioned previously that Randy Johnson did not take full advantage of his height.
TRhit
Nothing psuedo about it...it's a matter of physics. If a batter can see the pitch with little to no movement of his eyes or moving his head he has a much better chance of hitting it. The taller the pitcher, and the higher the release point the more likely that the eyes and head will have to move to pick up the ball early at the release point.
PG Staff
My input is based upon the "general knowledge" which pitching coaches discussed with us as we were learning. Maybe the emphasis on size has changed because so many kids now are so much smaller than they use to be. Now there is such an emphasis on "gun velocity" and not an emphasis on knowing how to pitch.
It used to be that pitchers had to know how to pitch because they had the "authority" to shake off a "called" pitch. But now with the "must-throw what's called philosophy" a kid only needs to know how to throw a fb because that's what's usually called 90% of the time.
Personally I really enjoy watching pitchers like Maddux who actually know how to pitch then the other types that throw mostly FB's. It gets pretty boring.
I mentioned previously that Randy Johnson did not take full advantage of his height.
TRhit
Nothing psuedo about it...it's a matter of physics. If a batter can see the pitch with little to no movement of his eyes or moving his head he has a much better chance of hitting it. The taller the pitcher, and the higher the release point the more likely that the eyes and head will have to move to pick up the ball early at the release point.
PG Staff
My input is based upon the "general knowledge" which pitching coaches discussed with us as we were learning. Maybe the emphasis on size has changed because so many kids now are so much smaller than they use to be. Now there is such an emphasis on "gun velocity" and not an emphasis on knowing how to pitch.
It used to be that pitchers had to know how to pitch because they had the "authority" to shake off a "called" pitch. But now with the "must-throw what's called philosophy" a kid only needs to know how to throw a fb because that's what's usually called 90% of the time.
Personally I really enjoy watching pitchers like Maddux who actually know how to pitch then the other types that throw mostly FB's. It gets pretty boring.
PG,
Glad To see we agree....Best of luck to you and all the young men you are working with
Glad To see we agree....Best of luck to you and all the young men you are working with
I was trying to make the point that size doesn't matter unless someone can tell me how. No pitcher delivers as high as he can, they all have a bend on the front side and the angle of attack is not of great importance mathematically.
The distance of 6" in height makes a difference of about 4" closer to the plate.
The smaller pitcher gets hurt more often? I don't know how to evaluate this, but this would have to be easy to measure. Does anyone know what the real numbers are? I've talked to tall pitchers that came out of pro ball and they subjectively think the tall guys had more operations than the compact guys.
Someone jokingly said something correct. If you want tall for angle of attack, off-speed has way more impact on angle of attack than size of the pitcher. I told this to a scout who said "we don't draft off-speed." I told him, "that's my point."
With everything else equal, I take the taller pitcher. But my point is, many good smaller guys are getting by-passed because of a belief that does not hold up.
Last by the way, my kid is pretty tall and is not through growing.
The distance of 6" in height makes a difference of about 4" closer to the plate.
The smaller pitcher gets hurt more often? I don't know how to evaluate this, but this would have to be easy to measure. Does anyone know what the real numbers are? I've talked to tall pitchers that came out of pro ball and they subjectively think the tall guys had more operations than the compact guys.
Someone jokingly said something correct. If you want tall for angle of attack, off-speed has way more impact on angle of attack than size of the pitcher. I told this to a scout who said "we don't draft off-speed." I told him, "that's my point."
With everything else equal, I take the taller pitcher. But my point is, many good smaller guys are getting by-passed because of a belief that does not hold up.
Last by the way, my kid is pretty tall and is not through growing.
I always get a kick out of this subject.
For the true athlete - I dont think it matters all that much.
When I played against Art Monk - I can assure you I wasnt thinking about how much bigger he was. All I was thinking about was how hard I was going to hit him if and when he caught the ball.
LOL
For the true athlete - I dont think it matters all that much.
When I played against Art Monk - I can assure you I wasnt thinking about how much bigger he was. All I was thinking about was how hard I was going to hit him if and when he caught the ball.
LOL
I've been reading the boards now for a number of months - but this discussion was one that I couldn't resist adding my $0.02. I do believe that players under 6"0" are at a real disadvantage and have to be that much better than the bigger guys to get a serious look. There was a very interesting article in the San Diego Tribune today on the subject I wanted to share. A few facts to consider from the article:
349 Pitchers currently on major league rosters
29 Pitchers shorter than 6 feet
15 NL pitchers shorter than 6 feet
14 AL pitchers shorter than 6 feet
8 Sub-6-footers who are left-handed (4 NL, 4 AL)
10 Teams without a pitcher shorter than 6 feet
7 Pitchers shorter than 6 feet who have won the Cy Young Award
5-9 Height of St. Louis pitcher Ricardo Rincon, currently the shortest in the majors
3 Cy Youngs for 5-11 Pedro Martinez
3 First-round draft picks shorter than 6 feet to make the majors between 1970-1999
The entire article can be read at http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/baseball/20060501-9999-lz1s1shortshr.html
Good luck to all!
349 Pitchers currently on major league rosters
29 Pitchers shorter than 6 feet
15 NL pitchers shorter than 6 feet
14 AL pitchers shorter than 6 feet
8 Sub-6-footers who are left-handed (4 NL, 4 AL)
10 Teams without a pitcher shorter than 6 feet
7 Pitchers shorter than 6 feet who have won the Cy Young Award
5-9 Height of St. Louis pitcher Ricardo Rincon, currently the shortest in the majors
3 Cy Youngs for 5-11 Pedro Martinez
3 First-round draft picks shorter than 6 feet to make the majors between 1970-1999
The entire article can be read at http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/baseball/20060501-9999-lz1s1shortshr.html
Good luck to all!