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Originally Posted by Back foot slider:
.I would not feel very good about it if I was the hitter, or parent of the hitter, or coach, if a kid was drawn in for the sole& intentional purpose to pull hit a line drive at a virtually defenseless infielder.  The "butcher boy" play is cut and clear as to what the intent is, to pull a line drive by the 3B or 1B.......a random ball hit up the middle at the pitcher, is just that....a random occurrence.

Agree.

In the 3B box, I've never called for the bunt/slash and never will.

Originally Posted by Back foot slider:

... The "butcher boy" play is cut and clear as to what the intent is, to pull a line drive by the 3B or 1B.......a random ball hit up the middle at the pitcher, is just that....a random occurrence.

I completely disagree.  A pulled ball is not the intent on a properly taught slash.  The intent is to get the 2B to vacate early to cover 1B and slap one past him (or the cheating SS covering 2B).  

redbird - I differentiate the "slash" and "butcher boy" as entirely different plays.  Slash is what you described, and as I mentioned earlier, don't have any heartburn over that play...the "butcher boy" is / has been my experience to pull-hit a line drive past the corner...saw it several times this past HS season, in fact the coach of the defensive team, finally instructed his players to stay even with the bag for safety....so what does the offensive coach do, instructs his players to now lay bunts down the line, I guess it is a strategy, but I'm just not a fan of it......I may be the minority, but I consider them different plays.

Originally Posted by freddy77:

In this clip, the batter has squared to bunt and the 1B is crashing (not creeping) towards home plate while the pitcher is releasing the ball.

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfro...76103.gif?1378972906

 

That's what we want our bunt D to look like.

from this screen shot you can see that the firstbaseman didn't leave his position (holding the runner on) until after the pitcher released the ball.  He sprinted at that point because he is obviously holding the runner on and can't "Crash" just because the hitter shows bunt (which also can't be seen in this view).

 

So, the timing on this particular play is what I described before. 

 

Although, a better view would be one of the whole infield while a bunt is being shown early.

 

Here is a nice view from tonight's game between Oregon St and UC Irvine.  You can clearly see how the 3B crept in onto the grass area, then was in position to not over-comit on the fake bunt / slash. The hitter is standing there in the bunt stance and the 3B is standing still in a position that allows him to attack an actual bunt but also not get his face caved in the event the bunt is a fake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...amp;feature=youtu.be

 

I am pretty sure the point of this discussion is whether or not the corner infielders should be "crashing" or "charging" aggressively PRIOR to the batter being in a committed point in the bunt - too late to pull back and swing away.  So just because someone is sprinting in doesn't mean they are "Crashing"..... especially when that doesn't occur until AFTER the pitcher has released the ball (like in this video)....or occurs late enough to still be in a properly defended position if the hitter is going to slash.... Agreed?

 

I am quite certain that we could find a thousand other clips of it being done wrong as well - that is the nature of the internet.  But trust me - this is how it was taught in professional ball as well.  As a matter of fact, as a pitcher in a national league organization we were FINED if we bunted into the wheel (or "crash" defense). 

 

I will go ahead and bow out of this conversation at this point. thank you for the back and forth - it's what makes this such a great game.

Last edited by R.Graham

I watch plenty of baseball... and I don't see anyone slashing - much less bunting the ball well!

Only time anyone ever asked me to try it was in my senior year / legion ball...

Just not really a huge part of the game, in my opinion-and I wish great bunt defense and offense were being taught, and let nature take it's course-should anyone slash.

It is a bit bush league but then again some fielders also  charge a little too aggressive at the first sign of a bunt almost going in full sprint.

I would never allow a slash in youth balls but I think at higher levels it is ok to occasionally do that to keep the fielders honest and prevent them crashing in almost before the pitch us is thrown in a bunt situation.

 

I encourage our sac bunters to square early.

So, when we attempt to sac with a runner at second, we sometimes have a first baseman in our face.

But I don't expect our players to slash bunt because they've never done it before in practice, let alone in a game vs. game-speed pitching.

IME, slash bunting exists primarily on the internet.

Last edited by game7

We would fake bunt and pull back to steal to keep the catcher honest.  It was called bush league by some coaches but it worked because their catchers could not focus.  The great part of it was when we actually bunted they had seen it so much that they never charged.  Made bunting a lot easier.  I think coaches who teach their corners to come that hard are crazy.  One day they will get a player killed or hurt bad by a slash bunt and it is real.  Players who are taught it and know how to do it are very effective.  Have to have quick hands.

I agree with POLOGREEN on the letter of the law but I also disagree.  So, if that scenario is right and they did not offer then if a coach has a hit and run on and the ball is 3 feet above batters head and they swing through at waist high to protect the runner did they offer at the pitch?  The bat staying out there could be considered an offer at the pitch according to the umpire's interpretation no different than a swing at a ball 5 feet above the bat would be considered swinging at the ball by everyone but it is really not an offer at a pitch.  I would say 90% of the time if you leave the bat out there the umpire is going to call it a strike because most will say you were just a bad bunter.

The danger part of slashing is not the offensive team it is the defensive team.  You have to teach your defense to read the batter and bail if they have to.  I faced a guy who used to coach HS softball so he would teach his first and third to come within 20 feet of home plate when the batter squared.  He would yell hold your ground.  I watched a player from another team slash and almost took the third baseman's head off with a shot.  The coach said great job of holding your ground.  His mom yelled get your +++ out of the way next time and told then lit into the coach. 

Last edited by PitchingFan

We (HS) played a team that did this both games of our series this passed week.  They would do it even w/ 2 strikes.  They bunted 8 times in the 1st game and ended up winning as our P and 3rd basemen had difficulties handling the situation we changed pitchers and got 2/3 outs so they stopped.  2nd game they were over matched by our P so they tried to get him off his rhythem by fake bunting/slashing and stepping out constantly.  Lost 8-1 w/ 12 K's.   

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