Slide or Avoid MLB ?

C=QB

I think they will for C, there will still be enough collisions on plays at the plate (just as there is in HS and C)

I think they will and should...it's been a long time coming.  There is just no need for such collisions at the plate, to me it's not "part of the game".  As for second base, an over whelming majority of those are unintentional, so I don't see any rules being put in place there

Johnny Bench came out and said it's aabout time! Buster Posey was bad BUT the worst I've ever seen was Ray Fosse taken out in an All-Star game by Pete Rose......there was NO need for Rose to do what he did to a catcher without the ball.

Can a runner headed to first base take out the first baseman in the act of catching the throw to make the out?

Catchers - "get off the track when the trains coming".  To me its a two part answer.  If the catcher is blocking the plate (not giving the back corner) then he should expect to get trucked.  If he is not blocking the plate completely then you can't run over him you must slide and take the back half of the plate.  Teach catchers to receive the throw correctly and teach runners to avoid the collision when possible.  

Really????? Your statement seems to presume that every throw to the plate will be a good one that would allow the catcher to pick a spot and just wait for the ball....not realistic.......not every trucking happens where the catcher has the ball and is waiting for the runner.

If a shortstop is blocking second base with the ball in a run down, can the runner truck him?

i agree that the throw may take the catcher into the play that's not what I'm talking about.  I'm talking about a catcher intentionally blocking the whole plate with or without the ball.  Other than that he should not be intentionally run into to.  If he does I feel he put himself in harms way and the runner has a right to the bag.

how many big league shortstops have you ever seen "block" the bag?  Very, very few, they don't want to risk the spikes.  Short and second take the ball and apply the tag without blocking the bag why not the catcher?

This proposed change is getting quite the coverage in the media and on umpire sites....so I took a good bit of this answer from a number of those sources....

The exact language of the new rule has not been written so we don’t yet know what the final proposal will be. The final draft will be approved by the Rules Committee and then submitted for a vote at the next quarterly Owners Meetings in January, and then it must be approved by the Major League Baseball Players Association. (no easy task)

 Mets general manager Sandy Alderson, who is the chairman of the Rules Committee, thinks that it can be accomplished before the 2014 season opens.

Alderson clearly admitted that drafting language that will be practical and effective (and acceptable to the MLPA) won't be a simple task. So expect major rewrites until approved. It’s also pretty clear that the Rules committee is looking at the college and high school rules that are currently in place that address the issue.

 Alderson said that the new rule would include a number of different things including positioning and intent. He said that Umpires will have some discretion in the rule, but at the same time, umpires have other things to do, like deciding whether the run scores or doesn't score. It’s also been rumored that Umpires will be able to use instant replay to help decide….not sure on that one…

Now personally, I shouldn’t care much about this change as I won’t ever do any professional BB or have IR to assist me, but I do call a lot of OBR based summer ball and this rule will a factor in those games. When you have 2 players occupying the same place, doing what they are supposed to do, there will always be some chance for legal contact in baseball. I do not want an ambiguous rule that will leave amateur game umpires dangling for an appropriate interpretation.

If it is decided that this rule is needed, then my personal input would be to have the rule be similar to the NCAA rule.   

The NCAA Rule

Collision Rule

SECTION 7. The rules committee is concerned about unnecessary and violent collisions with the catcher at home plate, and with infielders at all bases. The intent of this rule is to encourage base runners and defensive players to avoid such collisions whenever possible. When there is a collision between a runner and a fielder who clearly is in possession of the ball, the umpire shall judge:

If the defensive player blocks the base (plate) or base line with clear possession of the ball, the runner may make contact, slide into or make contact with a fielder as long as the runner is making a legitimate attempt to reach the base (plate).

Contact above the waist that was initiated by the base runner shall not be judged as an attempt to reach the base or plate.

(1)    The runner must make an actual attempt to reach the base (plate).

(2)    PENALTY—If the runner attempts to dislodge the ball or initiates an avoidable collision, the runner shall be declared out, even if the fielder loses possession of the ball. The ball is dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the interference.

(2) The runner may not attempt to dislodge the ball from the fielder. Contact above the waist shall be judged by the umpire as an attempt by the runner to dislodge the ball.

PENALTY—If the contact is flagrant or malicious before the runner touches the plate, the runner shall be declared out and also ejected from the contest. The ball is immediately dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the interference.

(3) The runner must attempt to avoid a collision if he can reach the base without colliding.

PENALTY—If the contact is flagrant or malicious after the runner touches the base (plate), the runner is safe, but is ejected from the contest. The ball is immediately dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the interference. If this occurs at any base other than home, the offending team may replace the runner.

If the contact occurs after a preceding runner touches home plate, the preceding runner is safe. The ball is immediately dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the contact.

(4) If the runner’s path to the base is blocked and (1), (2) and (3) are fulfilled, it is considered unavoidable contact (see Rule 2-54, Obstruction).

baseby pros, the rule is changing! Now it is only what the wording will be, I think PIAA is close to what the wording will be. We will see what they come up with. I do not think the rule is being changed because of what has happened to any one player, I think concussions are scaring leagues.....and rightfully so. Brain injuries are that serious. I had a concussion playing football and went back in, I don't remember anything about that day except walking down my family's driveway after the game....thankfully I don't have any real damage, that I know of .

well, you are a little late to the pro game.......IR is here to stay and is being expanded for next year........and this collision rule is all but a done deal, only the language is being debated.

LOL...lowering your shoulder and trucking a catcher at full speed is not "part of the game", that belongs in football......if you can't score without intentionally plowing a catcher to try and make him drop the ball, maybe you shouldn't have been trying to score in the first place, it's obvious the  fielder had a better arm than you anticipated or the 3rd base coach over estimated your speed...hehe

If my son was a catcher I would like the new rule.

All I have to say is WOW!!!!

Man, you are out there for sure.....when a runner trucks a catcher, he is not trying to reach the plate, his sole purpose is to inflict enough trauma onto the catcher as necessary to make him drop the ball, then touch the plate, not to reach the plate without being tagged.  What good does that do for the game? 

I found the following in a Camden Depot article:

"2013 saw 20 concussions suffered by 19 players, up from 13 suffered in 2012. As expected, catchers dominated the data, accounting for 58% of the players and 60% of the 450 games lost due to concussion"

Losing top catchers to senseless collisions....yeah, that's good for the game

Wow, you guys have to much time on your hands, it simple he is saying the play that cannot be avoided at the plate should be allowed and the malicious one should not be allowed, I do agree that batters should not get anything but a helmet, I also think the DH should go.

merry x-mas

Exactly! 

Pure, maybe you haven't been following the thread, but that is not what he said, maybe what he meant, but not what he said.  There will always be instances where contact is unavoidable, that will be determined by the Ump.  The discussion was/is about intentional collisions

pretty much what was said, may not have been how you took it but that is what was said. As for now the rule is the rule, until the MLBPA, votes that is. Hopefully they still allow the right play to happen. Your right I too don't want to see a catcher hurt on a play that is malicious, but as a former professional I do want the play to be allowed.

Not quite sure you remember it correctly...lol:

"players do and will continue to get hurt with or with out the rule. if the game is on the line and there is a play at the plate i want a chance to win, if the catcher receives the ball first and i have to slide to avoid i don't like my chances to win that game".

Go to you tube watch the buster posey play, that is what I am talking about. That was a clean play that was not avoidable, and yes he did get hurt, I'm pretty sure the runner was not trying to hurt him, he was trying to get to home plate, buster got in the way.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W762SSqGd4I, then watch this please.

To me I want to see that "football" play eliminated this is baseball isn’t it. Throwing your shoulder/elbow at the catcher, just eliminate it. In my youth, many years ago, players were wearing gloves that were small and flat with four fingers AND did not wear helmets, the game evolves....I don't like the DH …. BUT it is here to stay (Too much money involved & MLPA), there were only the American and National leagues, there was only the World Series, no playoffs, Willie Mays was my hero (First Black NY Giant) things change. We are not Neanderthals anymore and all this macho s&#t if he is standing there with the ball I’m going to knock the living daylights out of him to knock the ball out of his grasp/glove, maybe “old school” but should go.

How is that a clean play?  The runner had over half of the plate available to slide for...how about a nice hook slide?  Posey was in front of the batters box when the runner made contact.  The runner had to INTENTIONALLY alter his attempt to reach the plate in order to hit Posey.

As far as your other reference, slow it down and watch the video in stop and go from 1:01 to 1:04, you can see that the runner had access to the entire back half of the plate to slide for, yet he chose to step inside the baseline and go after the catcher.

In both of your references contact was absolutely avoidable and clearly intentional.

Is that all you've got?

So far I think that basebypros has been right on the money given his examples, I have watched booth the videos you guys are talking about. In the posey play the throw was not in line and up the line, the runner has access to the entire plate he doesn't have to slide and avoid. Watch the video buster is in the way without the baseball  so really given the rule It's the catcher who is in the wrong. I understand both your views, but it sounds like you (lefthookdad) just have a different opinion, and that's what it is an opinion,by the existing rule he is again right on the money. I personally think the rule should stay the same for the most part. they need to fine tune it a little but leave a lot Of it the wary it is.

I get where he is coming from, he is just trying to look at the videos through his opinion, the problem is his opinion does not matter the rule is the rule right now.  and the fact that it could or could not be avoided does not  matter.  I'm think he is  a dad at home with an opinion, that's good I thought that was the point of this site so people could discus things like this. Only problem I have is by the sound of his last comment he is getting upset or better yet may be going towards that line that shouldn't be crossed here On this site. So my advice is to let it go, I respect your opinion I just don't agree with it.

have a good day and merry Christmas!

Finally we can agree on something, this site is to discuss opinions, so don't worry, there is nothing you could say that would offend me or get me angry.  But as an FNG, you seem to be doing a lot of flip flopping, first you say something, then you delete it and claim you didn't say it, then mysteriously another poster pops ups...hmmmm...haha.  Yes, there will always be different interpretations of videos, theory's and opinions, that's why this site is great...and BTW, welcome aboard.  Looking forward to having having you around.  And, your not the only former player/coach on here.  There are many that far eclipse anything close to what you or I may have done.  Have a great Holiday, catch you on the next topic.

With what is going on and the new understanding of CTE and it's long term effects (particularly for catchers) to not change this rule is foolish at best. That is all I have to say about that. 

Late add from today's news:

http://tracking.si.com/2013/12...de-death/?xid=si_mlb

no flipflopping, stated my opinion as a player, you then stated your opinion, then we discuss. thats all.  hope you and your family have a great christmas and new years!

As an umpire I have never liked the takeout at home. I agree they are men and should be able to have contact but hitting a guy with a shoulder is not not needed. My son caught and took his shots but never had to worry about that type of play.