Can anyone give me the skinny, on the new rule to protect players trying to turn the DP at second, while a runner is sliding? I saw a bizarre interpretation/outcome to this, although it didn't effect the games outcome.
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Good question that I'd like to know as well. I'm pretty sure you're talking about the same slide to 2nd I saw this past Tues night in the LHS/SLC game. At the time it was a big deal with the home team (LHS) up 2-0. The visiting team (SLC) had runners on 1st & 2nd and hit a 6-4 FC with no chance of a DP. The runner sliding into 2nd did not appear to do anything out of the ordinary yet a DP was awarded...inning over instead of 1st and 3rd with the #3 hitter in the lineup at the plate. In my opinion it was a huge turning point in the game.
The UIL doesn't have any "have to slide" rules per se, only an interference call. The runner can give him self up and simply run out of the baseline to avoid the throw if he wishes.
If he does slide it must be directly at the bag. Definitely not in the direction of the fielder. He also cant slide past the back of the bag. There's an imaginary plane on the back of the bag to protect the fielder. If he breaks that plane interference can be called.
A lot of coaches teach to slide with the hands up. If the ball hits the runners hands, and it appears malicious, interference can be called.
In a nutshell you don't have to slide, but if in the umpires judgment you in anyway interfered with the throw to 1b he can call the batter/runner out.
If he does slide it must be directly at the bag. Definitely not in the direction of the fielder. He also cant slide past the back of the bag. There's an imaginary plane on the back of the bag to protect the fielder. If he breaks that plane interference can be called.
A lot of coaches teach to slide with the hands up. If the ball hits the runners hands, and it appears malicious, interference can be called.
In a nutshell you don't have to slide, but if in the umpires judgment you in anyway interfered with the throw to 1b he can call the batter/runner out.
Not necessarily, in the JV game prior to the one DD mentioned a LHS runner slid straight into the bag no interference but the SS due to thinking the runner might goes past the bag withdrew his attempt to throw. The umpire called the play correct, but the opposing coach questioned and the umpire changed his mind, thus awarded the DP. (Smart move by the coach). The players had no contact, no popup slide to inhibit the SS from attempting his throw. The rule must be written so vague that any true interpretation could be construded either way as to letting the umpires off with whichever decision they come to call. I guess you should slide short of the bag now to avoid any misinterpretation by people making judgement calls?
quote:If he does slide it must be directly at the bag. Definitely not in the direction of the fielder. He also cant slide past the back of the bag. There's an imaginary plane on the back of the bag to protect the fielder. If he breaks that plane interference can be called.
I saw a situation a couple of weeks ago where the runner slid straight into the bag, hands down and ended up with somewhere between his knees and hamstring on the base....so he went past the base to about his upper calf. The ump called the DP for obstruction. Crazy.
quote:Originally posted by Out in LF:
a LHS runner slid straight into the bag no interference but the SS due to thinking the runner might goes past the bag withdrew his attempt to throw. The umpire called the play correct, but the opposing coach questioned and the umpire changed his mind, thus awarded the DP.
Well if the runner didn't slide past the bag then it's a horrible call. You can't make a call based on what a player "thought" was going to happen. That's ridiculous.
I'm not sure this is a new rule? It, or a similiar one, has been around for many years in Federation and supplemental for Sporting News.
The runner, should give up, go around or get down.
The runner, should give up, go around or get down.
quote:Originally posted by Old School79:
I'm not sure this is a new rule? It, or a similiar one, has been around for many years in Federation and supplemental for Sporting News.
The runner, should give up, go around or get down.
Like in my previous post, all the runners in 3 different cases were down in the act of sliding. What's the difference in this act of sliding to the base, and the possible same contact when stealing second and there is a play, if there is any contact but the runner is safe they should be out even if tag is not made? It's way to vague.
Out in LF [/QUOTE]"What's the difference in this act of sliding to the base, and the possible same contact when stealing second and there is a play."
If there is any contact but the runner is safe they should be out even if tag is not made? It's way to vague[/QUOTE]
If the runner is safe, with contact. Then he should be declared safe, as long as the contact was not malicious, or outside the context of the rule.
If there is any contact but the runner is safe they should be out even if tag is not made? It's way to vague[/QUOTE]
If the runner is safe, with contact. Then he should be declared safe, as long as the contact was not malicious, or outside the context of the rule.
It's not new, and it's not only for plays at 2nd. It's on any force play, such as bases loaded and the defense trying to get the force at home and the out at first. It's been around for years, with it first being introduced in NCAA and then trickling down to the NFHS like most rules do.
the purpose of the rule is to prevent injuries. While that's the purpose, it doesn't prevent runners from going after the defensive players. It does make an automatic out at 1st regardless of where the batter/runner is at the time of the illegal slide.
I was watching a college game last weekend. During a 5-4-3 dp the 2nd basemen came across the bag and was clearly on the 3rd base side of the bag. The runner from 1st went out after him and popped him pretty good. The base ump didn't hesitate with the call. The 2B guy hobbled around for a bit but was okay to play. My perception was that it was malicious but what do I know? There was one guy yelling at the ump saying "that's baseball". Apparently he hasn't been around the game for the last 10 years or so.
The obvious infractions are easy to get. they can be difficult with a 2 man crew, but a 3 man crew definitely makes it easier.
the purpose of the rule is to prevent injuries. While that's the purpose, it doesn't prevent runners from going after the defensive players. It does make an automatic out at 1st regardless of where the batter/runner is at the time of the illegal slide.
I was watching a college game last weekend. During a 5-4-3 dp the 2nd basemen came across the bag and was clearly on the 3rd base side of the bag. The runner from 1st went out after him and popped him pretty good. The base ump didn't hesitate with the call. The 2B guy hobbled around for a bit but was okay to play. My perception was that it was malicious but what do I know? There was one guy yelling at the ump saying "that's baseball". Apparently he hasn't been around the game for the last 10 years or so.
The obvious infractions are easy to get. they can be difficult with a 2 man crew, but a 3 man crew definitely makes it easier.
"What's the difference in this act of sliding to the base, and the possible same contact when stealing second and there is a play."quote:Originally posted by Old School79:
Out in LF
If there is any contact but the runner is safe they should be out even if tag is not made? It's way to vague[/QUOTE]
If the runner is safe, with contact. Then he should be declared safe, as long as the contact was not malicious, or outside the context of the rule.[/QUOTE]
Just my point, on the interpretation of this rule. If a runner slides straight into the bag, (not inside nor outside) and no contact is made umpires are calling it a DP. Why don't they just make it to if the ball hit in the infield with an advancing runner its an automatic DP. It's idiotic.
A runner can't alter the play by:
- a pop-up slide into the fielder making the turn
- can't make contact on the back side of the bag
- can't make contact or go after the fielder on either side of the bag
- can't hit the ball with their hands on the throw
they can
- make contact on top of the bag
- slide to the side of bag away from fielder
- make contact with fielder who is directly in front of the bag inline between 1st & 2nd.
The location of the batter/runner is irrelevant on this play. If they call an illegal slide, it's an automatic DP. Federation and NCAA.
- a pop-up slide into the fielder making the turn
- can't make contact on the back side of the bag
- can't make contact or go after the fielder on either side of the bag
- can't hit the ball with their hands on the throw
they can
- make contact on top of the bag
- slide to the side of bag away from fielder
- make contact with fielder who is directly in front of the bag inline between 1st & 2nd.
The location of the batter/runner is irrelevant on this play. If they call an illegal slide, it's an automatic DP. Federation and NCAA.
Then the plays I've witnessed, two were called incorrectly and umpires need to review the rules!
Hey Behind the Mask, sure would like you insight on this topic.
quote:Originally posted by Outsider:
- make contact with fielder who is directly in front of the bag inline between 1st & 2nd.
Had this happen in a game last week. I had a runner at first and he was sliding into 2nd. The SS slid across the bag and was clearly in the base path between 1st and 2nd. Ump called the DP and told me that the runner "must give up" and "is not allowed to make any contact with the fielder...no matter where the fielder is."
Needless to say, I had to watch the rest of this one from the dugout.
Why is it so hard for umpires to actually peruse the rulebook from time-to-time?