Smokeless tobacco

Unfortunatley I am posting this with a dip in. Can't protect them from everything. Like anything else they have to make those choices. Most research shows that if a person is not a tobacco user by the age of 18 they will not be a habitual user. I think as long as you are around baseball you will be around smokeless tobacco. My son has no want to use, thank goodness, and he has been around and exposed to it forever.

I don't think steering your son away from a college program is an effective way of having him make choices in life, JMO.

Most college programs have atleast a little tobacco use as sad as it is to say.

I think you just have to make him aware of the dangers but he will most likely try it at some point. Just check for signs and keep remphasizing your point.

Aleebaba, I'd worry more about beer, in college. Your son is going to be around guys much older that don't live in dorms.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I know the NAIA doesn't allow players and Coaches to use during games and if caught they will be ejected. I saw it firsthand in a game when I was a freshman our first base coach got tossed for having a dip in.

I was under the assumption that the NCAA would have the same rule.

The catch though was our Coaching Staff allowed us to use it, we just had to be discrete about it.

It's a part of the game that unfortunately will probably never disappear.

On the flip side there are companies out there trying to come up with an alternative, grinds comes to mind they are former ball player's who are marketing coffee grinds in pouches rather then chew.

I too would be more concerned about liquor its so much easier to get your hands on it regardless of what the team stance is on using it. I know one program that has a rule in place that you can drink just not 24 hours before a game.... Good luck enforcing that one!

All college associations have a no dip policy and the player and coach will be ejected. My question is after you keep him from going to a college that has players that use dip, are you then going keep him from going to a college that has players who drink. After that are you going to keep him from going to a college that has players who have s e x. After that maybe schools that have players that drive their cars to fast. Look, I get it, I have kids to and want to keep them safe and I want to see them be successful. My question to you is what is the age your son needs to be before you take the baby on board sign out of your volvo and let him make his own decisions?

I am sorry if this sounds harsh but really. Parents accuse coaches of over coaching. Well guess what this is an example of over parenting.

quote:

Originally posted by IEBSBL:
All college associations have a no dip policy and the player and coach will be ejected. My question is after you keep him from going to a college that has players that use dip, are you then going keep him from going to a college that has players who drink. After that are you going to keep him from going to a college that has players who have s e x. After that maybe schools that have players that drive their cars to fast. Look, I get it, I have kids to and want to keep them safe and I want to see them be successful. My question to you is what is the age your son needs to be before you take the baby on board sign out of your volvo and let him make his own decisions?

I am sorry if this sounds harsh but really. Parents accuse coaches of over coaching. Well guess what this is an example of over parenting.

My son told me last week that if anyone if caught by an NCAA umpire using smokeless tobacco that the head coach would be ejected from that game and two more games after that. That seems like a fairly stiff penalty, and something a head coach would want to make sure doesn't happen. However, he said the players continue to use the products but not on the baseball field.

College kids are faced with choices everyday. You hope they use their best judgement in all situations that are out of your control.

The use of tobacco and tobacco products (smokeless) are not permitted by the NAIA. The coaching staff, event/sports manager or site coordinator is responsible for enforcing the policy.

The sanctions are:
A. 1st offense, the offender receives a warning.
B. 2nd offense is ejection from the practice, game, or event.

We've been fortunate, we don't have an issue in GUNs program. If we have smokeless tobacco users, they do it away from the field.

Also, according to our summer team GM, smokeless tobacco rule(s) have been somewhat lax, until now. As a result of MLB strongly enforcing its "no tobacco" rule in the minors(working toward a ban), they encouraging summer leagues to enforce the rule too. They don't even want to see players with little cans in their rear pockets. The penalty is ejection of the offender AND his manager. The umpires are being told this is to be a big deal this summer (2012). All our players have been warned in advance, the Valley League prohibits tobacco in any form.

A step in the right direction, IMHO... just my .02 cents worth. GED10DaD

quote:

Originally posted by GunEmDown10:
They don't even want to see players with little cans in their rear pockets.

When I noticed the kids around here started to experiment with dipping, I confiscated one of these during a little shakedown. Thought I had him.

Kind of surprised Nicorette gum isn't bigger among the dippers, same kind of use just not nearly as nasty...

I understand that they actually have "dip police" that monitor minor league teams...unfortunately it seems that it's no big surprise they are coming so the dippers just hide there stash.

As for the posters original concerns...I understand the concern however as others have posted I think at some point no matter where are children go to college there will always be temptations, hopefully they have learned over the years to make good decisions and we just have to trust them.

quote:

Originally posted by AntzDad:
Aleebaba, I'd worry more about beer, in college. Your son is going to be around guys much older that don't live in dorms.

That's correct.
My son dipped his last year in HS, not in front of us, if I found a can it went into the garbage. At 18, he had to learn to make his own decisions. As to what Antzdad is implying, your son, will have a lot to deal with when he goes away and will have to make his own decisions, with or without your input.

As far as I am aware, HS, JUCO, NAIA, NCAA do not allow it near or on the field and MLB is making strides as well. I know in my sons organization it is not allowed on the field, clubhouse either is alcohol. I love it when I see ML with seeds falling out of their mouth, most likely they are not allowed it's use. What goes on when they leave is their business.

He recently gave it up, one reason his uncle has throat cancer and his GF said NO MORE. The culture is changing.

Didn't I just read somehwere where T. Gwynn was having cancer issues due to chewing the yrs he played? Go online and find the most disgusting pictures you can of patients with mouth cancers and make him look at them. Others will try to pressure him to use to fit in, so good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by IEBSBL:
My question to you is what is the age your son needs to be before you take the baby on board sign out of your volvo and let him make his own decisions?

I am sorry if this sounds harsh but really. Parents accuse coaches of over coaching. Well guess what this is an example of over parenting.

Thanks for the parenting advice. Truth be told I don't care if he drinks, but I do care about him chosing to start using a disgustingly-addicting substance like chew tabacco. We all know that the chances go up if his friends and mentors engage in the practice. That is why I would not want him to go to a program that enjoyed occasional crack pipe outings either. Please don't pretend like who you hang around has no influence, and don't tell me I'm a over-protective parent just because I am thinking about these things and trying to direct him properly.

I see your point Aleebaba. I wouldn't want my son to be on a team where the coaches were lax about dipping and the majority of players dip. You can't protect them forever but you can make sure they aren't put into situations that actually encourage the use of addictive products. There is a difference between going to a college where players have access to stuff and going to a college where leaders and mentors are actively using.

quote:

Originally posted by jerseydad:
I understand that they actually have "dip police" that monitor minor league teams...unfortunately it seems that it's no big surprise they are coming so the dippers just hide there stash.

As for the posters original concerns...I understand the concern however as others have posted I think at some point no matter where are children go to college there will always be temptations, hopefully they have learned over the years to make good decisions and we just have to trust them.

I was filling in in the Cal league one night last year when the team members seemed shocked to find that their lockers had been inspected during the game and their dip was missing. The beer in the ump changing room was still cold, though.

I might be giving you parenting advice but here is the issue 1)When do you let go. 2) you say that you do not care about alcohol but there are 24,518 deaths per year according to the CDC involving alcohol but there are only 12 to 15 deaths per year attributed to smokeless tobacco. If you truly believe that friends are an influence then I would think you would care more about alcohol then friends dipping. I am not trying give you parenting advice, although I can see how it sounds that way. What I am trying to say is this. If my son was a senior and was recruited by South Carolina, 2 time National Champions, and they were laxed about I would tell him to not dip, let him make his own decision, and have him sign on the dotted line.

12 to 15 deaths per year? That's ridiculously idiotic and completely ignorant. IEBSL, I don't want to spend time debating you. I just suggest you parent your child, and I will parent mine.

Alcohol is not addicting. Do you drink in front of your son?

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Alcohol is not addicting. Do you drink in front of your son?

I drink addicting caffeine drinks too. Guess I'm a horrible father and I have no right to try and prevent him from smoking or chewing tabacco. For that matter, go ahead and give him the crack pipe.

You have to fight stupidity with wisdom. As America's leading drug addiction expert puts it, the NIDA's Dr. Nora Volkow, nicotine addiction is a disease where brain changes translate into an inability to control drug intake. These drug induced brain modifications then signal the brain with a message that's equivalent to "when you are starving," the signal to "seek food and eat it," that the drug is "necessary to survival," that dopamine pathways ensure "long-lasting memory of salient events." Our priorities hijacked, our self-induced mental disorder having left us totally convinced that that next nicotine fix is as important as life itself, where do we turn once we awaken and realize that we've cooked in brain damage that takes years to recover from.

Rules are not enough of a reason even more so when they are so poorly enforced. Very much so when encouraged to break them "discreetly".

I meant to put in a ? mark ....it is addicting. Calm down and trust your son will make good choices.

quote:

Originally posted by Aleebaba:
12 to 15 deaths per year? That's ridiculously idiotic and completely ignorant. IEBSL, I don't want to spend time debating you. I just suggest you parent your child, and I will parent mine.

I would suggest that if you really want to have that attitude, you shouldn't have asked for advice.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt13:

quote:

Originally posted by Aleebaba:
12 to 15 deaths per year? That's ridiculously idiotic and completely ignorant. IEBSL, I don't want to spend time debating you. I just suggest you parent your child, and I will parent mine.

I would suggest that if you really want to have that attitude, you shouldn't have asked for advice.

I kind of have to agree with you, people should know by now that when you post something you might get more advice than you were expecting, or the answer wasn't what you would have liked to have heard.

I have a question, why are parents not able to let go and let their children grow up? This is not personally directed to the OP, I have been guilty on occasion of it myself.

From my experience, there is only so much we can control and for how long. I hope that the decision where your son will go and play will be based upon other criteria, not if anyone might dip or not. I smoked when my son was in HS and college which is equally disgusting, therefore I wasn't setting a good example to tell him what he could and couldn't do when he left home about tobacco use. He asked me for years to stop, always telling me it was disgusting, yet he still did what he wanted when he left home.

Present the facts to your kids about situations that they are going to face when they leave home and hope that they make the right decisions and stop driving yourselves crazy over stuff that you can't control anymore.

For the record, I would worry much more about the indulgence in alcohol and other substances. The temptation to join in a game of beer pong is much more tempting than taking dip (trust me).

quote:

Posted March 09, 2012 11:25 PM Hide Post
12 to 15 deaths per year? That's ridiculously idiotic and completely ignorant. IEBSL, I don't want to spend time debating you. I just suggest you parent your child, and I will parent mine.

Don't call me idiotic, I am not offended. However I guess you know way more that the CDC since that is where I got the stat from.

I didn't realize we were restricted to subject matter.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

I have a question, why are parents not able to let go and let their children grow up? This is not personally directed to the OP, I have been guilty on occasion of it myself.

From my experience, there is only so much we can control and for how long. I hope that the decision where your son will go and play will be based upon other criteria, not if anyone might dip or not. I smoked when my son was in HS and college which is equally disgusting, therefore I wasn't setting a good example to tell him what he could and couldn't do when he left home about tobacco use. He asked me for years to stop, always telling me it was disgusting, yet he still did what he wanted when he left home.

Present the facts to your kids about situations that they are going to face when they leave home and hope that they make the right decisions and stop driving yourselves crazy over stuff that you can't control anymore.

For the record, I would worry much more about the indulgence in alcohol and other substances. The temptation to join in a game of beer pong is much more tempting than taking dip (trust me).

Good question. We give our kids space and if they make mistakes, we let them figure it out and we were there for support, not to completely bail them out. As for the alcohol thing, kids are gonna drink. So why make drinking taboo? If the law was lowered to 18 and parents allowed their kids to have a few drinks in the home but driving rules MUST be strictly enforced by the parents. By time these kids get to college, the so called temptation to play a beer pong game won't be so strong because having a beer won't be a big deal by time they get there because they been there done that. There's a better chance that by time they go off to college, when they go out for a few drinks, they'll know how to handle themselves a little better than hiding them away from it , then unleasing them off to college where drinking becomes new and cool to them and go all berzerk over drinking and go overboard. The best advise to give the college freshman is to not give into the older college students pressure to drink. If they at least get the tools to learn before they get to college, the less chances they get trapped in a bad spot. As for smokeless tobacco, again, all you can do is show them the end result of long term use of using it. They have to learn to think for themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by IEBSBL:
All college associations have a no dip policy and the player and coach will be ejected. My question is after you keep him from going to a college that has players that use dip, are you then going keep him from going to a college that has players who drink. After that are you going to keep him from going to a college that has players who have s e x. After that maybe schools that have players that drive their cars to fast. Look, I get it, I have kids to and want to keep them safe and I want to see them be successful. My question to you is what is the age your son needs to be before you take the baby on board sign out of your volvo and let him make his own decisions?

I am sorry if this sounds harsh but really. Parents accuse coaches of over coaching. Well guess what this is an example of over parenting.

I couldn't agree more.

Send your kid to BYU. All issues of choice and morality will be solved. let's party break out the

[/QUOTE]

I would suggest that if you really want to have that attitude, you shouldn't have asked for advice.[/QUOTE]

Maybe I did get a little too sensitive, but I do not like it when people say "take the baby on board sign off" or bull like that when I'm just getting opinions on the issue. I don't think I should be attacked as a parent for merely being concerned about an issue. I understand that there would be some backlash because there are lots of tobacco users on this forum, but I bet most of them wish they never started. And because I personally do not care if my son decides to drink in moderation in college should not be a license to get off the subject of tobacco. If you want to debate alcohol fine, but I would rather stick to the tobacco issues for now.

quote:

Originally posted by Aleebaba:
I don't think I should be attacked as a parent for merely being concerned about an issue.

I would posit that you have gone far beyond "merely being concerned" to the point of being obsessive about one detail and having lost perspective about the totality of the situation.

quote:

Originally posted by Aleebaba:
I don't think I should be attacked as a parent for merely being concerned about an issue. I understand that there would be some backlash because there are lots of tobacco users on this forum, but I bet most of them wish they never started.

I don't use tobacco, and never have. But I share most of the sentiments expressed here.

So many words - and diversions - for such a simple subject.

Tobacco is really bad for you.
Tell your kids not to do it.
After you tell them - hope that they follow your advice.

Anything beyond that is a huge waste of time. IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
and it is getting ridiculously stupid

It's truly amazing how much we agree at times, TR.

quote:

Originally posted by IEBSBL:
I might be giving you parenting advice but here is the issue 1)When do you let go. 2) you say that you do not care about alcohol but there are 24,518 deaths per year according to the CDC involving alcohol but there are only 12 to 15 deaths per year attributed to smokeless tobacco.

Interesting stat on the smokeless tobacco.

It got me curious as to what other causes of death might be with similiar mortality rate.

1. Pets- 31 deaths per year.
2. Bee/Wasps- 53 deaths per year.
3. Rattlesnake- 5.5 deaths per year.
4. Horse- 20 deaths per year.

I think it's safe to say the next time you reach for the dip to go for a horseback ride with your dog to take a look at the bee hive in rattlesnake country. You may want to make sure your life insursance premium is current.

FWIW; T.Gwynn by shear coincidence has used smokeless tobacco for excess of 20 years has had his 2nd cancer surgery to remove a tumor on his partid gland in the last 18 months. His MD has stated that smokeless tobacco had no bearing on the cause of the tumor, located on the right jaw again by coincidence the same side he has used for 20 years. The MD has stated he's based his decision on the fact that there are no current studies that would either confirm or deny smokeless tobacco would be the cause of this type of cancer. To T. Gwynn credit he's come out publicly and has stated he believes it was the cause.

We were very disappointed when I found my sons dip one day in HS.
The point that I was making was that here, after all of these years of him telling me to stop, now we find out he's dipping.
We laid out boundaries, but once he left home, there was only so much we could control. That is all I was saying.
Fortunately there are rules in place, but again, what a person does off the field is his business. If your son is impressionable (meaning that others can easily persuade him to do something), then you are in trouble, but hopefully you have spoken to him about what is acceptable to you as a parent and what is not. He may or may not take your opinion into consideration.
I don't think it was a lecture, rather than just a suggestion that at one point you cannot control what your son does or doesn't do as an adult. You came on here very sternly and very emphatic he wasn't going to go anywhere where anyone was involved with dip, if you had something to do with it. I can't speak for others but IMO that should not be criteria for his desision.

And how would you know, you gonna ask the coach? What do you think he is going to respond?

A good suggestion (from me) might be to have your son attend the local JUCO program, live at home and follow him where ever he goes, then you will have FULL control over everything he does.

Just sayin......and BTW, don't EVER allow your son to go off to play pro ball!

And I don't use tobacco products.

in our region hs campuses are tobacco free--- that is a good start

tpm--- does your suggestion eliminate the calls from mom to the college baseball coaach?

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
tpm--- does your suggestion eliminate the calls from mom to the college baseball coaach?

Absolutely, dads too, and I do suggest that parents go to visit often and keep in touch with their players and talk to them when the players need someone to listen.