so how important are academics?

First of all if he has a core GPA under 2.0 the young man will not be cleared by the NCAA Clearinghouse much less get into a decent college. If he doesn't get cleared by the NCAA Clearinghouse a college no matter what they do with their own entrance requirements will not have an eligible player---

Thanks, we are so green at all this. Husband filled out the NCAA Eligibility Questionnaire, but we only have a vague notion of how it works. We are going to a seminar soon.

I wish this young man all the best, the situation just seems so contrary to what we have heard over the years. And what we have drummed into our kid's head too.

(He and his family have looked JC route since freshman year, and took the appropriate courses.)

quote:

Originally posted by 55mom:
Hard to keep kids motivated when they see stuff like this. Any thoughts?

No offense 55mom but motivation was failed a long time ago. Sounds like this kid needs a swift kick in the rearend of reality. He failed to meet the necessary requirements to play at the next level. Motivation now isn't the problem - motivation when he was a freshman is when it was important.

If the kid no longer wants to play since he can't meet the requirements then I question whether he wanted to play at all.

tad harsh.

I have seen all types of academically challenged kids, who, following an understanding of the reality check, have had the light switch turn on.

Should the HS player have a GPA under 2.0 his Jr year, and if he got it done in the classroom his Sr year, several colleges look favorable and an IA (Individual Admittance) is offered.

There are three IA's that I am thinking of.
Two are having success in their early professional careers. The other, a twenty year old, is considering about returning to a JUCO, and with
two years of eligibility remaining (i.e. 5 yrs to play four), may be toggling that switch.

Bottom Line: Not many in my circles (nor in Tom R's) give up on these young adults.

coach2709 - yes I agree, my point was keeping kids with solid academics motivated, not the young man. I think he is doing the best he can do. He is a good kid, academics are not his strong suit.

I understand what you are saying Bear and I agree. I've come across many kids like that who slack off and then get it in gear. But for every kid like that I've probably seen 3 or 4 who just don't get it. That is the impression I'm getting from 55mom on this kid. I hope he turns it around.

Sounds like this young man is a candidate for a JC> This will give him time to mature a little, and see if he can improve on his academics.Otherwise it is going to be tough for him to go to the 4 year and play baseball.Some take some time to mature, but the time requirement and work ethic at the next level is pretty grueling. hgn

my son was a nonqualifier out of high school. not so much his gpa but the lack of required core classes. i still have a pile of letter's from schools that were looking at him, before we/they knew his acedemic story. yes even harvard, that still brings a chuckle around the house.

we had absolutely no idea what any of that meant until his sr year. (not that he would have taken the classes ). too late to do anything then. he weant the jc route, and that fit him just fine.

i went as far as the 9th grade, wife graduated hs. we didn't know squat about the correct path to higher education, (yet we turned out ok.) we also didn't think that far ahead baseball wise, we weren't alot of help. i'm sure there are many like us out there.

i have learned what i know here, this place can be a wealth of important information. and the sooner you learn this stuff...well, knowledge is king.

Thanks 20dad.

Not every kid is cut out to be an academic type. I remember several guys who were better suited to JC. It is important to see what they want in life if BB doesn't pan out. One guy I knew wanted to be a cabinet maker so why try to force him into a college that he wouldn't like.

I wish the HS athletic people would get more acquainted with this Qualifier/NCAA information.Its too bad, because if you knew when your kids were just startin HS,it would make it so much easier.

A student who has less than 2.0 GPA in his junior year may still be able to reach 2.0 during his senior year. Additionally, he can take 1 core course after graduation which could improve his GPA and the number of core courses. (14.3.1.2.1.1) The course can be taken anywhere.

A student diagnosed with education-impacting disabilities may take up to 3 core courses after graduation. (14.3.1.2.1.2) Such a student may also satisfy core requirements with remedial courses taken during his high school years under certain circumstances. (14.3.1.2.5)

Courses taken after graduation must be taken before full-time enrollment at a college. For baseball, I think this means that the 1 or 3 courses would need to be taken during the summer in order to satisfy 14.01.2.1.1. Otherwise, he wouldn't be eligible for competition during the following spring.

There is also the possibility of a waiver. (14.3.1.5)

So in some situations, the basic requirements may not apply. Conversely, a 2.0 GPA in core courses is, by itself, not sufficient. The student would also need an SAT score of 1010 (86 ACT) which is approximately an average score of those who take the SAT. Many 2.0 students won't reach 1010 on the SATs.

quote:

Hard to keep kids motivated when they see stuff like this. Any thoughts?

Sorry, but these types of things and more are just part of the journey. Like the real world, your son will come across all kinds of people as teammates. Your son(s) cannot get distracted or hung up on these things. Control only what you can control, try your best to NOT worry about the other stuff. Its only a distraction, nothing more.

...for most kids, very.

1. Parents, coaches, counselors must tell all kids who want to continue to play ball that they should not allow their academics to limit their opportunities. Good grades = more schools willing to let you play for them. Colleges are still in the education business for the most part.

2. Because of the new academic performance requirements, D1 colleges are less willing to recruit talented players with marginal grades. Junior colleges exist to help kids who aren't yet 4-year college material reach that goal. No shame in going to junior college. It's just a different path.

3. High School counseling in most areas is deficient, and they don't even attempt to know the kids well enough to guide them appropriately to meet NCAA requirements. Parents must get involved to know the NCAA rules and requirements at an early stage. Failing to plan is planning to fail.

4. Don't let anyone else's experience divert you from your own dreams. If you are good enough to keep playing, you will get that opportunity.

I know of one ultra successful D1 coach that will not sign a young man that does not have a 3.00gpa & score a 21 on their ACT. The coach claims that as much as they practice and the amount of time they spend on the road kids that score less have a difficult time staying eligible.

Hey Justbaseball- I didn't "recognize" you- nice new avatar (or have I just not noticed?).

If a player can't get decent grades in high school while living at home and having parental supervision, how can they possibly think they could do what is required in college? Maturity helps to a certain extent but coaches will only hold your hand so much.

That is why for some players JC really is the best idea. Gives the player time to mature physically and mentally and learn the discipline necessary to get better grades.

quote:

That is why for some players JC really is the best idea. Gives the player time to mature physically and mentally and learn the discipline necessary to get better grades.

While there definitely are some JC's that provide an environment in which to "learn the discipline necessary to get better grades," there are others that do not provide any academic support or accountability whatsoever for their players. I know a pitcher who made less than a 1.0 his first semester at a Texas JC last year. Even though his dad read him the riot act, his coach did nothing and allowed him to continue playing. During his second semester, he admitted to me that he was sleeping through most of his classes and just wasn't "able" to get up on time. He eventually stopped going to his classes and probably flunked all of them.

When evaluating a college -- any college -- ask lots of questions about academic support, especially for freshmen.

i would say the most important thing is look at ncaa.org, they outline the core requirements to play d1,d2 etc. before high school. you can have a 3.9 gpa in a all the wrong classes, doesn't help.

this may be second nature to some, it was news to me.

Im just not seeing the issue here. If a kid has less than a 2.0 in HS, the last thing on his (or his parents) mind should be baseball. Take the classes you are supposed to take, (there are not very many HS that the core classes dont meet NCAA requirements, although I will agree that most HS counselors are clueless at best on a good day), and get good grades in them, I mean this is not Yale here we are talking about its high school for pete sake, they WANT you to pass!! Just for me, if my player brought home those kind of grades, it would take two weeks for his eyes to get used to the sun again after we got his next report card. It may sound harsh, but if a kid is allowed to spend 3 1/2 years getting d's in Basket Weaving and playing X-Box, and then everyone is suprised that he cant get into school and even if he could, isnt able to play, I just have a hard time feeling bad. Its not like the kid had a bad day at a big showcase or something like that, this is an extended period of just plain lazy. JC certainly is for some kids, but it should be a choice, not something that is a last resort. Everyone will go out of their way to help someone who is trying hard, nobody likes lazy. Just my one cents worth.

high cheese

i very well may be in the minority here. but i work with my back,because i wasn't studious.i had no idea about the core classes. most people i know depend on the school to help point the student in the right direction. on the other hand,the information is there for us all, but you need to know enough to look.


speaking from my own experience, son wasn't a good student in jr high. maybe didn't get thought of as a college candidate. i know the furthest thing from my mind was playing ball in college, other people had that thought. so we didn't go looking for anything, until to late. nobody's fault but our own. no need to feel sorry for anyone, its life.

every one who reads these post's aren't great student's, or as well informed as some. that is the only reason i told the story.

Thanks again folks.

I can't address the actions of the family/player I've written about. They are working through this, and I'm not in a position to offer advice etc.

I was hoping more for a discussion as to actions of D1 programs seemingly pursuing a borderline student. For years we have preached studies studies studies. Make good grades etc. We know lots of strong players and students - it's thrown us all for a loop.

Beginning with TR - all hopefuls need to fill out the Clearing House information. I hadn't considered the schools may not be fully aware of the academic side until this is complete.

JustBB (nice avatar!) points out that kids need to focus on what they can do, and not the actions of others. Son is in the middle of the most difficult semester he will take all High School. After a long talk, I realized he has his head straight, even though he is still a tiny bit discouraged. He gets positive feedback as far as ball is concerned and he continues to work on all aspects of his game. And study.


20dad, thanks again for pointing out that success is measured in many ways.