Maddux threw 95? Sorry, not buying it.
I will agree though, that we often fall into the trap of focusing on generating velocity as the goal. Guilty as charged on that one. Maddux proves there's more than one way to succeed, and in fact, his way may be the best way indeed.
It does not matter if you buy it or not. There are many people that saw him do it including myself. He was 5'11 and weighed 155 lbs and was the 28th guy drafted in the whole country, and he was in the big leagues before his 21st birthday. Do you think that HS pitchers that size get drafted that high because they are cagy? If he had been 6'2, he would have been one of the top 3-4 picks in the draft.
Go copy another delivery if you choose...it does not matter to me.I have raised my two sons, and they both got scholarships, and they both went through high school and college injury free.
Go copy another delivery if you choose...it does not matter to me.I have raised my two sons, and they both got scholarships, and they both went through high school and college injury free.
I wasn't there, but to hazard a guess, I would think that someone probably saw him at 88-91 and figured if he added some muscle weight he would become a mid-90's guy. The fact that his older brother Mike had already proved himself an MLB caliber pitcher surely didn't hurt Greg's "projectability", either.
It is a shame that "being cagy" won't get you to the first round, though. With everyone looking to find the next Ryan, Clemens or Koufax, you have to wonder if the next Maddux is right under their noses and not being appreciated.
Luckily, Maddux had enough MPH to get his foot in the door, and from there he's built a Hall of Fame career by mastering his craft like few others ever have.
But I still wouldn't hold up his mechanics as the model to emulate, if getting drafted is your goal. Even Maddux had to have enough MPH to get his initial shot, and his mechanics are not really built for maximizing velocity.
For that, the Ryan model is better. And he fared well in terms of durability and longevity, too, as I recall.
Though it is ironic, isn't it, that Maddux has without question been the better PITCHER? Maybe we should throw away the RADAR guns and watch which guys can hit their spots with several different pitches.
It is a shame that "being cagy" won't get you to the first round, though. With everyone looking to find the next Ryan, Clemens or Koufax, you have to wonder if the next Maddux is right under their noses and not being appreciated.
Luckily, Maddux had enough MPH to get his foot in the door, and from there he's built a Hall of Fame career by mastering his craft like few others ever have.
But I still wouldn't hold up his mechanics as the model to emulate, if getting drafted is your goal. Even Maddux had to have enough MPH to get his initial shot, and his mechanics are not really built for maximizing velocity.
For that, the Ryan model is better. And he fared well in terms of durability and longevity, too, as I recall.
Though it is ironic, isn't it, that Maddux has without question been the better PITCHER? Maybe we should throw away the RADAR guns and watch which guys can hit their spots with several different pitches.
Mildodad
Yeah, your arguement makes alot more sense then someone who saw Maddux in person, along with many other people who witnessed the same thing. Do you have any more guesses you would like to hazard? Mike and Greg also made thier big league debuts the same year. The year Greg was drafted (1984) Mike was in AA with an era over 5... was this the established MLB caliber pitcher that scouts were hoping to project Greg into when the Cubs selected him with the 31st pick?
He was clocked as high as 95mph as a 155 pounder, and you dont think that he was maximizing velo? I cant think of a single college coach or scout that would have any question marks about drafting/recruiting a kid with a similar delivery. Debating pitching and mechanics is a wonderful thing, but please present something other then a "guess" that you had to "hazard".
quote:I wasn't there, but to hazard a guess, I would think that someone probably saw him at 88-91 and figured if he added some muscle weight he would become a mid-90's guy. The fact that his older brother Mike had already proved himself an MLB caliber pitcher surely didn't hurt Greg's "projectability", either.
Yeah, your arguement makes alot more sense then someone who saw Maddux in person, along with many other people who witnessed the same thing. Do you have any more guesses you would like to hazard? Mike and Greg also made thier big league debuts the same year. The year Greg was drafted (1984) Mike was in AA with an era over 5... was this the established MLB caliber pitcher that scouts were hoping to project Greg into when the Cubs selected him with the 31st pick?
quote:But I still wouldn't hold up his mechanics as the model to emulate, if getting drafted is your goal. Even Maddux had to have enough MPH to get his initial shot, and his mechanics are not really built for maximizing velocity
He was clocked as high as 95mph as a 155 pounder, and you dont think that he was maximizing velo? I cant think of a single college coach or scout that would have any question marks about drafting/recruiting a kid with a similar delivery. Debating pitching and mechanics is a wonderful thing, but please present something other then a "guess" that you had to "hazard".
Doug,
I always love it when you post that clip.
I also agree with something you have said, on occassion, best pitching lessons money can buy are watching games of him. My husband and son spent HOURS upon HOURS watching him and that is the model my husband used to teach son. Not one pitching lesson his whole life. Though mine will never be a Maddux, my sons delivery is very similar (has always been) and never suffered an injury.
Maddux's delivery, IMO, is a great example of how it should be done, easy smooth, loose that looks like high 80's but actually well over 90. That's the object isn't it? That's why most can't beleive that he threw that velo in HS.
More of you need to listen carefully to what bbscout has said earlier. He is giving great advice on how your pitcher can remain healthy.
And Midlo you make a great point, more should put away the gun. Too many hung up on how can my pitcher throw harder and harder instead of how can my pitcher gain velocity safely and make it look easier and easier.
JMO.
I always love it when you post that clip.
I also agree with something you have said, on occassion, best pitching lessons money can buy are watching games of him. My husband and son spent HOURS upon HOURS watching him and that is the model my husband used to teach son. Not one pitching lesson his whole life. Though mine will never be a Maddux, my sons delivery is very similar (has always been) and never suffered an injury.
Maddux's delivery, IMO, is a great example of how it should be done, easy smooth, loose that looks like high 80's but actually well over 90. That's the object isn't it? That's why most can't beleive that he threw that velo in HS.
More of you need to listen carefully to what bbscout has said earlier. He is giving great advice on how your pitcher can remain healthy.
And Midlo you make a great point, more should put away the gun. Too many hung up on how can my pitcher throw harder and harder instead of how can my pitcher gain velocity safely and make it look easier and easier.
JMO.
quote:But I still wouldn't hold up his mechanics as the model to emulate, if getting drafted is your goal.
quote:Maybe we should throw away the RADAR guns and watch which guys can hit their spots with several different pitches.
And, maybe, the goal should not to be drafted but to become a great pitcher, that will be drafted?
quote:Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
I wasn't there, but to hazard a guess, I would think that someone probably saw him at 88-91 and figured if he added some muscle weight he would become a mid-90's guy. The fact that his older brother Mike had already proved himself an MLB caliber pitcher surely didn't hurt Greg's "projectability", either.
It is a shame that "being cagy" won't get you to the first round, though. With everyone looking to find the next Ryan, Clemens or Koufax, you have to wonder if the next Maddux is right under their noses and not being appreciated.
Luckily, Maddux had enough MPH to get his foot in the door, and from there he's built a Hall of Fame career by mastering his craft like few others ever have.
But I still wouldn't hold up his mechanics as the model to emulate, if getting drafted is your goal. Even Maddux had to have enough MPH to get his initial shot, and his mechanics are not really built for maximizing velocity.
For that, the Ryan model is better. And he fared well in terms of durability and longevity, too, as I recall.
Though it is ironic, isn't it, that Maddux has without question been the better PITCHER? Maybe we should throw away the RADAR guns and watch which guys can hit their spots with several different pitches.
I saw him pitch about 20 times in HS, so what I "hazard to guess" is that you are calling me and about 50 other scouts liars.
He was the 28th guy picked in the draft, and at that time, there were only 26 big league teams, so he was the 2nd guy taken in the 2nd round. How many guys that are right handed pitchers and go 5'11" and 155 lbs get drafted that high? When they do, it is because they have an electric arm, and that is exactly what Greg Maddux had. He changed his approach to pitching when he was in his second year in the big leagues, because he was about three times as smart as the other pitchers in the game. As far as his delivery goes, it has not changed, other than that he is not as flexible at 40 as he was at 19 when I filmed him.
quote:as he was at 19 when I filmed him.
I do believe BB posted that videoclip here a while back of Greg Maddux at UCLA practice field when Maddog was only 19. I must have watched it a 100 times, at least. peace shep
Shep, It was at Valley High School in Las Vegas, Nv. Feb. 1986.
