soft hands or pick through the ball

I like to see our infielders attack the ball--too often if they stay back it can hurt them even with soft hands and a great arm

Too often the kid with the great arm and soft hands gets beat trying to funnel everything

I do not think there is a common denominator here--the ideal of course is a kid with soft hands, a great arm and he attacks the ball

First of all we teach attack the baseball. But the bottom line is how you field it will be determined by how the ball is hit. Is it mashed at you? Is it a slow roller? Or is a routine ground ball? The attitude that each fielder should have is to attack the baseball and not let the ball play you.

Being an agressive fielder does not by any means preclude having soft hands.

Coach May's point is self evident. The exact technique is dictated by the particular hit and situation.

On the hard hit ball, giving is necessary to prevent the possibility of the ball from popping back out of the glove.

Often (not always) even on a hard hit ball the fielder can come forward at least one or two steps. This puts the fielder in the right mental attitude to field, and in a better physical position to field properly. But the fielder can still use soft hands.

Attack is the wrong word....once you get to the ball do you wrist hinge(pick), or funnel(give with).

just catch the baseball and throw it to first to get the runner out. I have seen too many players try to be so mechanically sound that they forget to be an athlete. If they have to remember to have a firm wrist or soft wrist or this and that then when they look up the runner is taking his batting gloves off.

quote:

Originally posted by d8:
Attack is the wrong word....once you get to the ball do you wrist hinge(pick), or funnel(give with).

Depends on the hit.

quote:

Originally posted by txdad06:
just catch the baseball and throw it to first to get the runner out. I have seen too many players try to be so mechanically sound that they forget to be an athlete. If they have to remember to have a firm wrist or soft wrist or this and that then when they look up the runner is taking his batting gloves off.

If the instinct is there, memory/thought (as txdad06 is referring to it) is not necessary.

I heard a great coach talk about instinct. He said "Baseball requires you react with instinct. How do you develop instinct? How do you do this? Endless hours of practice. Learn through repetition and hard work. Repetition, repetition, repetition." That coach was Tommy Lasorda.

So I can't agree with "just catch it & throw". Use the right mechanics for each type of hit in practice. Through repetition, instinct will kick in during the game.

Use the wrong mechanics & the batter will be standing on second base taking off his gloves.

JMHO

great post texan,
i believe in rep, rep rep in practice. but if you rep something the wrong way you are not going to be very successful in the big picture.

Telling our fielders to catch it and throw it would be like telling our pitchers to go out on the bump and throw it hard......

We drill our fielders the same way most do their hitters and pitchers. Not only do we want to be consistant and field all batted balls, but we want to do it as quick as poss.....for every two tenths of a second, hs kids run five ft.....How many plays at first are five ft or closer?

Absolutely, raiderbb. That is why there is so much weight on those who coach (officially or unofficially) the kids. We must ensure that they practice the right mechanics.

Perhaps the incorrect word here is "attack"-- perhaps it is better to say the fielder is "aggressive" in fielding the ball

we teach work through the boall with your body but from there things may be different. if it is a "top of the hop" or "down hop" we use soft hands or funnel the ball, if it is a short hop then we use the "wrist hinge" method. we try to avoid at all times the "up hop" this is done by working through or "attacking" the ball.

We pick everything from the knee down. We have had great success doing this. I think it allows your average kids the greatest chance to be successful and your good kids will be quicker to first with the ball.

What age kids are you coaching, d8?

We try field as much as possible moving toward the ball. That said, on a hard ball we step in and get in a strong position sit and bring the ball in. We do not run in on a hard grounder. We try to get in a position to make a good throw by gettinbg our feet under us. If the ball is bouncing we come through the ball very aggressively and keep our body going forward. The higher the bounce the harder we go to the ball. Short hops firm wrist to the ball. High hops soft and back with the glove.

Hey, just keep it simple.

See it, field it.

We used to teach the funnel to the core. We had a couple of guys that had a hard time catching a cold. Trouble was, they were playing ss. That should tell you about the rest. We went to a clinic and listen to a guy talking about a "bulldozer" "Crocodiles v Alligators" and "airplanes." I sat there, as I often do, thinking what the heck am I doing here. Know what, it made sense. We teach to attack the ball, glide in on the catch (moving forward) like an airplane landing. Next, lower that glove like a bulldozer scooping ground and move through the ball. This helps set the feet. Finally, a crock has a small snout and an alligator has a big snout. Get those hands forward and cover that ball (Alligator) as the feet move into position to throw. Well, this sure sounds like we're crazy but that's what we do. Our fielding improved tremendously. (Wait, perhaps you can refer back to the basic fact that anything could have improved our fielding after those young men graduated.) JMHO!

Texan...I am at a high school in TX

B25...We use the terms airplane and helicopter....we want our approach like a plane landing not like a helo. landing.

I like the bulldozer term. We do not say glove in the dirt, but we use the saying 'fingers in the dirt'. We want the tips of our glove's fingers in the dirt not the back of the hand. That puts your glove in a much better fielding position.

I'm surprised, then, that you don't have the fielders give some when they get a screaming grounder hit at them.

I'll stick with Davey Johnson's teachings.

And what are those Texan?

i think the big thing is being consistent at how you fild and to practice. if a player believes in what he is doing he will generally be successful even if it isn't the best way. and who is to say what the best way is.....

Great post catamount.

There is no question that rotational is the best way.

linear... i would expect that from you

Texan.....there is more than one way to skin a cat. If you have a system that works for you use it, sell it, make the kids believe in it. I started this about 6 years ago. I picked it up from one of the top hs coaches in the country. I also had players coming home that were playing minor league ball and that is what they were being taught. We looked at it, evaluated it, and modified it to fit what we were doing. I believe Tom Mclemore put out a video a few years back that covered most of this. I think the name of the video was 'KAIZEN'.

I like what Catamount said here - soft hands funnel on hard hit balls, and wrist hinge on slow rollers. Makes sense - teach it but never really thought about it. Thanks Catamount.

We teach the more agressive "push" through the ball, here's why we favor it. There are basically three types of hops: the long hop, the in-between hop, and the short hop. The long hop is the easiest to field and either technique works well. The short hop is also fairly easy to catch provided you don't turn it into the dreaded in-between hop. In my opinion, that is the draw back to "funneling" the ball in...you turn short hops into in-betweeners. The technique is the same that we teach our first baseman (and others) for catching short hops, push through and keep them short hops.

To those who believe that the fielder should not give with the screaming grounders, I recommend the following. And I honestly believe it will make a believer out of them.

Pull your old glove out of the closet. Get out at the SS position. Have someone get at the plate with a fungo bat & hit screamers (& I do mean hard hit) at you. See how many of the screamers hit in the glove & pop back out, or roll up into the throwing hand so hard that the transfer is bobbled and dropped.

Then give with the screamers, and every one of them will stay in the glove while they roll into the throwing hand.

Just go out & try it.

I learned this years ago when playing. And have seen it reinforced while coaching.

that is why we "give or funnel" the regular and hard hit balls and "scoop or push through" the short hops. i agree wtih both of you. we teach our first baseman to go get the short hop throws just like short hop ground balls. the rest we "funnel" with our hands as we sork through the ball with our feet.

lol.....as a matter of fact I have. I, like you, was taught to funnel, have soft hands, and give with the ball, and I played that way through hs and college.

At first thought, I did not think it would work. I thought you would have to have better hands to pick, but it turned out that the opposite was true. After learning the proper way to hinge and pick the ball, I found it much more effective. My players find it more effective. It works for us. If what you do works for you, please keep doing what you are doing. Not trying to argue, but I offer that you take your own advise. Put on your glove, learn to push or pick through the ball and see which you like. You may like our system better or you may not, but why not take a look at it?

I did take my own advice. {When you throw all the hitting practice for years, you get plenty of opportunity - at least until the boys get big enough to warrant the L screen.} And it didn't work as consistently. Neither did it back when I was playing.

But we'll leave this one at agreeing to disagree, eh?

lol...sounds good.

Well, I guess the real proof will come this spring. For some strange reason I decided to leave my annual play-off team to take over one that has not won a district game in three years. So keep coming with the advise. I will need all I can get.

D8,
Can you explain the way you teach the hinge and pick? I've not taught the hinge part. This may help alot.

it may be that one style will work with some and the other will work for a different group. can we have more than one style on a team??? i say why not. show both styles and see which one works for the individual.
i have always taught turn to glove side for a throw. i have a 1st baseman that can't do that well so i let him turn to throwing arm side, to start the double play. remember there is more than one way to skin a rabbitt

Here is the abbreviated progression of how we teach the hinge part of fielding ground balls. All of these drills are done with a partner rolling the ball from about eight to ten feet away. We get that close so we can roll the ball exactly how and where we want it.

From the fielding position (bending at the knees and not at the waist, glove in front of the toes 3-4 inches, etc.)…….We emphasize the fingers in the dirt, not just glove in the dirt. We want the palm of the glove facing the ball. We will not roll the ball until the fielder is in this position.

1. We hinge with the wrist. It is a quick flick of the wrist only. It is not a long, slow scoop with the elbow or shoulder. We give the ball back to our partner using the glove hand. We want our players able to use their glove. You would be surprised at how many can not do this at first. We never move our feet or raise up. All we are working is picking with our glove.

2. Next we incorporate the throwing hand. Everything is the same as #1, but we now bring the ball up to the ear/shoulder area while getting our 4 seam grip.

3. We then add the feet. Same as #1 and #2, but we now replace where we picked up the ball with our throwing foot, getting our shoulders turned. One of the terms we use for our footwork is ‘jumping on a skate board’.

4. Next comes the throw. All of the above and we throw to a shortened 1st baseman.

We usually do ten reps of each. It only takes a few minutes to get 60-100 ground balls. We teach our players that rolled balls are like hitting off of the tee or cage work. You do not have to see a live ball to get tons of work done. We also do this with other types of ground balls (forehand, backhand, slow rollers, dives, etc.).

Here is an image we use to teach the concept of being agressive with the glove, referred to as "wrist hinge" by some in this thread.

First, place a baseball on the ground at rest. Then, break down in a good fielding position without a glove on and the fingers of your lightly touching the back/underside of the baseball. Now, flip the ball up into the air and forward, six inches or so, by curling the fingers up to the palm of the hand and moving the arm forward slightly. This move forward is only a matter of inches.

to add to the discussion, i have a question

after fielding the ball.... do you teach to jump turn, back foot(right) in front of front footleft) or do you teach to step behind the front foot?????

we teach to step in front of the left foot to throw. i think this makes you close your shoulders and body more to the firstbaseman. i think if you step behind, most of your momentum is going toward the outfield.

thoughts?????????

Catamount, do you find that they then straighten up more? We teach to step behind. We seem to be quicker at releasing the ball this way. So our fielding technique is to attack through the ball, and continue that momentum to fist by stepping behind. Athletically, I don't know that I could step in front.

I like to have the kids step with their foot to the heal of the glove side foot then step forward with the glove side. Similar to what you would teach a catcher, replace the glove foot with the throwing side foot.